Author Topic: E3 2014 Thread  (Read 9564 times)

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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2014, 07:50:22 am »
I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate a little here and explain why their excuse might not be bullshit, depending on how the game was developed...

Hokay, you've gone thru and animated all these dudes for a game that is rather animation-intensive.  You've got a set size the game has to be to ship on a single disc, or even going GTA V and having separate install and play discs, and there's only so much compression can achieve.  Taking into account models, animations, textures, various maps (like bump maps), and sound assets, each playable character adds a reasonable chunk to the game's overall size.

So, you take your shit to a 'con and show it off.  Some people ask why there isn't a female character.  Most gamers have little to no understanding of what exactly goes into making a game; things like "video assets," "texture libraries," et al are all but incomprehensible to them.  So, you explain it as simply as you can, "animation for a female protagonist would be too expensive."  This is true, but not in the way most people think.  Developing a protagonist, even if you port someone over from a previous game and give them a facelift, would take time.  Time costs money, and any development house worth their salt would test something as major as that quite a bit to make sure that its introduction doesn't cause any game-breaking bugs or glitches.

Chances are, the person was trying to explain it in the simplest possible terms because there was a very high probability that the people to whom he was talking were not developers and don't know all the technical shit that goes on in making these things.  We're not wizards, we aren't perfect, and some of us are beholden to corporate powers beyond our ability to control.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2014, 12:08:32 pm »
If only all the playable characers were wearing identical robes that cover most of their body so that assets could very easily be re-used.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2014, 12:25:10 pm »
That really isn't how it works, Zacky.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2014, 12:36:03 pm »
Yeah, you're right.

I mean it's not like any expert animators for video games have come out and said that their reasoning is bullshit or really all that intensive to begin with.

Oh wait... two of them have.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2014, 02:31:13 pm »
Okay, it'll be good for the animators...and who else, exactly?  You've got writers to make her lines, a voice actor to perform them, not to mention the scads of programmers having to work toward adding the weight of all that interaction and debugging, and playtesters to make sure things haven't gone awry.  No, I'm not saying things will magically fuck up because, suddenly, there's a woman involved.  I'm saying that, when it comes to code, Murphy's Law can and WILL fuck you right in the ass, and it especially loves doing it during the crunch time before deadlines.  You fix one thing, a dozen break.

Besides, this is all assuming that they don't add new playable characters later as (potentially free) DLC.  There's a lot that goes into it, and if memory serves, different parts of large development houses are somewhat segregated.  Its no guarantee that an animator will know anything about code or even scripting.  They're talking purely from their perspective, and not that of their teammates, who may have a lot more shit to put up with than they do when it comes to adding new playable characters.

Again, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, and it is possible that they're just bullshitting and adding a woman into the mix is totally feasible and justified in the setting.  However, the person who said it'd be too much work may have thought he was talking to a room of people who...well, know great fuck all about actually making this shit.  It'd be like Stephen Hawking explaining the physics behind black holes to a room of regular people.  They don't know the principles, they don't know the lingo or the jargon, so he'd likely talk in terms he thinks a majority of his audience can understand.  Does it always work?  Of course not.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2014, 02:46:24 pm »
So either they think their audience is absolutely stupid (go ahead and explain the real reason, the people who understand can explain it to the people who don't) or they thought animating and voicing a female assassin was just "too much work".

Either way, it doesn't look good for Ubisoft.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2014, 05:12:12 pm »
Only in the eyes of some.  I doubt that most will give a shit either way.  If people really are that up in arms about it, they'll probably give us one as some sort of day one DLC dealie.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2014, 05:44:21 pm »
Well, it's not like I was interested in the series to begin with, so they haven't exactly lost a customer.

Incidentally, Bayonetta.

Despite the fact that she was created by a guy who finds her sexy...
And despite the fact that her legs are so long she could easily be Usagi/Sailor Moon's mother
And despite the fact that her clothes are literally made from magic hair that disappears when she casts complicated spells.

Is it just me or does she seem more like an empowerment icon than other sexualized women?  Like she could somehow be a feminist icon?

Yeah, it's probably just bullshit.  Other than maybe the creator's distaste for porn that features her as the bottom instead of the top.  ... Yeah, probably just bullshit.
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Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2014, 06:45:46 pm »
Wasn't Bayonetta created by a woman?

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2014, 06:53:41 pm »
Hmm... I'm not sure now.  Sorta yes, sorta no?

Quote
Mari Shimazaki designed the game's characters to be "fashionable", with "subdued" features.[26] She designed the titular character to fulfill Kamiya's request for a modern, female witch that wears glasses and wields four guns,[20] and the two settled on her original concept for the character despite her work "over a year" on other concepts.[27] Bayonetta emerged as a long-haired, black-clothed witch with a beehive hairdo (in place of the traditional pointy hat) and glasses (which Kamiya "really pushed for ... to differentiate Bayonetta from other female characters and give her a sense of mystery and intelligence").[20] Conversely, Shimazaki "didn't require a huge amount of effort" to design Bayonetta's short-haired, red-clothed rival Jeanne, who merely wears her glasses on her head above her eyes. She added plumes to Jeanne's handguns to add movement to the design, and thick makeup to Jeanne's face to "make [her] feel like something out of the 1960s". Though Shimazaki preferred Bayonetta, Jeanne turned out to be the more popular of the two witches among Kamiya and the development team.[26] Still, in an April 2009 interview, Kamiya called the former "in many ways ... my ideal woman".[19]

The reason I think it could be plausible for her to be a feminist icon is that she's oversexualized to the point of almost being parody, and instead of feeling like a sexualized character, ends up feeling like a sexual character.  That is to say, her sexuality is a part of her strength, not something that works against her strength.

And feminists (at least sane ones) want women to have sexuality instead of being chaste purity sues, they just don't like them to be sex objects, either.

That and she can piledrive an entire line of angels hard enough to atomize their skulls, so I'm fairly certain "strong" and "Bayonetta" are very complementing words.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 06:57:48 pm by Magus Silveresti »
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Offline Commissar Kaz

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2014, 09:00:25 pm »
 I watched the trailer for Splatoon and kinda wanna buy a Wii U now.

Offline ironbite

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2014, 09:06:05 pm »
Wanna know the real stupid argument against animating a female Assassin in Assassin's Creed?

THEY ALREADY HAVE THE FUCKING ASSETS!

Ironbite-or did we all forget Liberation?

Offline Vypernight

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2014, 04:46:11 am »
E3 was both interesting and depressing.  The games themselves were interesting.  The release dates and systems they're being released on were depressing.

Smash Bros 3DS.  Bumped from August to October.
Dead Island 2.  Next Gen
new Rainbow Six.  Next Gen.
new Star Wars Battlefront.  Next Gen.
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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2014, 05:14:24 am »
Of course the new games are going to be released on "next gen" (actually current gen, now that they're released) systems. It's been almost a year now since the Xbone and the PS4 came out, the days of new games for the 360 and PS3 are well and truly over.

Offline Vypernight

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Re: E3 2014 Thread
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2014, 06:03:40 am »
Well Rainbow Six was supposed to be released on the 360 and PS3, but it kept getting delayed and delayed, and eventually bumped.  As for the others, at least give us something for those of us who don't have $400 to drop on a new system at the moment.  Hell, by the time I get a PS4 or X1, they'll probably be upgrading to the next systems.
Whenever I hear a politician speaking strongly for or against abortion, all I hear is, "I have no idea how to fix the economy!"