Author Topic: Best Political Cartoons  (Read 1647978 times)

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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4890 on: April 08, 2015, 04:18:15 pm »
Won't someone think of the frat boys?
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4891 on: April 08, 2015, 04:24:43 pm »
Won't someone think of the frat boys?

The members of Phi Kappa Psi received death threats, had their home vandalized, and had to go into hiding for weeks.  They're definitely the victims here.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4892 on: April 08, 2015, 04:27:13 pm »
Won't someone think of the frat boys?

The members of Phi Kappa Psi received death threats, had their home vandalized, and had to go into hiding for weeks.  They're definitely the victims here.

Poor frat boys. They are the downtrodden -- the rejects of society. They have no financial resources to help themselves through this turmoil.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4893 on: April 08, 2015, 10:28:09 pm »
Won't someone think of the frat boys?

The members of Phi Kappa Psi received death threats, had their home vandalized, and had to go into hiding for weeks.  They're definitely the victims here.

Poor frat boys. They are the downtrodden -- the rejects of society. They have no financial resources to help themselves through this turmoil.

So people cannot be wronged unless they are downtrodden or poor? It's somehow not a bad thing to send death threats to someone if they are in frat?

Things don't suddenly stop being bad when they happen to members of a group you don't like.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4894 on: April 09, 2015, 12:46:05 am »
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4895 on: April 09, 2015, 01:01:32 am »
Won't someone think of the frat boys?

The members of Phi Kappa Psi received death threats, had their home vandalized, and had to go into hiding for weeks.  They're definitely the victims here.

Poor frat boys. They are the downtrodden -- the rejects of society. They have no financial resources to help themselves through this turmoil.

So people cannot be wronged unless they are downtrodden or poor? It's somehow not a bad thing to send death threats to someone if they are in frat?

Things don't suddenly stop being bad when they happen to members of a group you don't like.

I think the implication is that this is a case of Tumblr power+something argument and someone needs to check their privilege.
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Offline I am lizard

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4896 on: April 09, 2015, 01:05:39 am »

5. Attempt to be a white man, preferably of the upper-middle class.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4897 on: April 09, 2015, 01:45:34 am »
Won't someone think of the frat boys?

The members of Phi Kappa Psi received death threats, had their home vandalized, and had to go into hiding for weeks.  They're definitely the victims here.

Poor frat boys. They are the downtrodden -- the rejects of society. They have no financial resources to help themselves through this turmoil.

So people cannot be wronged unless they are downtrodden or poor? It's somehow not a bad thing to send death threats to someone if they are in frat?

Things don't suddenly stop being bad when they happen to members of a group you don't like.

Sorry, I'll try again with less snark.

This issue is often framed as a tug-of-war between two sides: the agency of the rape victim versus the reputation of the falsely accused. The most reliable statistics I've been able to find on rape accusations is 33% of rape victims report the crime while 2% of reports are false accusations. The unlikely false positive is why we demand evidence from the prosecution in a court of law, which I find to be adequate protection for the reputation of the falsely-accused. I jumped to a conclusion that UP was using this as an cudgel to make it harder for rape victims to publicly accuse rapists, but it's possible that wasn't his intent.

As for any suffering the falsely-accused frat boys went through, I don't buy that it's the same level of torment a rape victim has to endure.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4898 on: April 09, 2015, 01:49:01 am »
The unlikely false positive is why we demand evidence from the prosecution in a court of law, which I find to be adequate protection for the reputation of the falsely-accused.

Except that one doesn't even have to go to court to ruin the accusation of a rape accusation victim. A mere accusation is all it takes for the whole thing to make national news, and from that point on, the person accused of rape will go through the rest of their life as "hey, aren't you the guy who raped that girl?"
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4899 on: April 09, 2015, 02:25:44 am »
The unlikely false positive is why we demand evidence from the prosecution in a court of law, which I find to be adequate protection for the reputation of the falsely-accused.

Except that one doesn't even have to go to court to ruin the accusation of a rape accusation victim. A mere accusation is all it takes for the whole thing to make national news, and from that point on, the person accused of rape will go through the rest of their life as "hey, aren't you the guy who raped that girl?"

The press abandoned this case after the accusation was determined to be false -- the general public has an attention span of one press cycle. Some hardcore hecklers are out there, I'm sure, but the density isn't high enough to bother the victims more than once in a very great while.

Maybe about as often as the moon landing conspiracy theorists bug Buzz Aldrin.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4900 on: April 09, 2015, 01:59:45 pm »
So, often enough to want to punch them in the face?
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4901 on: April 09, 2015, 11:53:26 pm »

Sorry, I'll try again with less snark.

This issue is often framed as a tug-of-war between two sides: the agency of the rape victim versus the reputation of the falsely accused. The most reliable statistics I've been able to find on rape accusations is 33% of rape victims report the crime while 2% of reports are false accusations.

Source, please? Looking over Wikipedia suggests that 2% is very low on the scale. Admittedly there seem to be recurring methodological problems in what is counted as "false" which inflate figures, but that doesn't automatically mean that the lowest number is the right one.

Quote
The unlikely false positive is why we demand evidence from the prosecution in a court of law, which I find to be adequate protection for the reputation of the falsely-accused.

I don't, not when magazines go around publishing stories without fact-checking.

There is a worrying trend among some elements of Social Justice that strongly discourages doubting a rape accusation. There is a good reason for this, of course, the last thing a rape victim needs is being told they* are a liar. But it also sets up an environment where it's really easy for a woman to accuse a man of being a rapist and very hard for a man to defend against that accusation.

And I think the best answer to that is to be supportive of victims without, y'know, sending death threats to the accused. And that's might not be optimal, but it's not like the current balance is better. Because in the current balance, the accused who happen to fall in the public eye get death threats and the accused and cleared get dismissed as frat boys who probably deserved it anyway.

(and then there's assholes like this guy, but that's a whole other thing)

Quote
I jumped to a conclusion that UP was using this as an cudgel to make it harder for rape victims to publicly accuse rapists, but it's possible that wasn't his intent.

Maybe he was, can't read UP's mind.

Speaking for myself, publicly accusing rapists is complicated and it has serious downsides and while I'm not necessarily against it I'm not unambiguously for it either. A publicly accused person will with very high probability suffer a lot of fallout regardless of innocence (but sometimes making accusations public is important anyway, and if a high-profile person is accused it will become public regardless).

Quote
As for any suffering the falsely-accused frat boys went through, I don't buy that it's the same level of torment a rape victim has to endure.

If you mean that being raped is worse than being falsely accused, sure. But if you mean that the societal treatment of rape victims is worse than that of accused rapists, that is very context-dependent. Probably true on average, but not in every individual case.


*This trend is mostly about women accusing men, but men get raped too and are also often dismissed for it, although for different reasons.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4902 on: April 10, 2015, 12:38:07 am »
Question: Do victims NEED to publicly accuse the suspect? Do we need to shame the suspect before the courts have decided if they are guilty?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4903 on: April 10, 2015, 12:46:13 am »

Sorry, I'll try again with less snark.

This issue is often framed as a tug-of-war between two sides: the agency of the rape victim versus the reputation of the falsely accused. The most reliable statistics I've been able to find on rape accusations is 33% of rape victims report the crime while 2% of reports are false accusations.

Source, please?

The Bureau of Justice Statistics did a study estimating the probability of rapes being reported to the police in 2013:

Quote
The NCVS allows for an examination of crimes reported and not reported to police...From 2012 to 2013, there was no statistically significant change in the percentage of violent and serious violent victimizations reported to police...A greater percentage of robbery (68%) and aggravated assault (64%) were reported to police than simple assault (38%) and rape or sexual assault (35%) victimizations.

The data available is fuzzy for determining the probability a rape accusation is false because of different definitions among jurisdictions and inconsistent records on the subject. I think I got the 2% number from the low estimation on Wikipedia:

Quote
DiCanio (1993) states that while researchers and prosecutors do not agree on the exact percentage of false allegations, they generally agree on a range of 2% to 10%.[DiCanio, M. (1993). The encyclopedia of violence: origins, attitudes, consequences. New York: Facts on File. ISBN 978-0-8160-2332-5.]
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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