Worst of Social Justice

[I am lizard]

Once again, Anita makes a good point but hides it amidst quite a bit of inverted misogyny.

As a nation, we have tied violence and masculinity together as if they were two sides of the same coin.  Society may say, quite frequently, that violence is not the answer, but then the various authority figures will call such a thing "for pussies", and say that real men blah blah blah guns.

When you teach people that violence is an acceptable answer to a problem, then people will use it to deadly consequences.

Maybe we should start teaching men to be "more like women" while we're teaching women to be "more like men."

...Quotation marks because, obviously, gender roles are bullshit.

I think she should have added some sources, right now it just feels to speculative.

[Eiki-mun]

I agree. More women should participate in school shootings.

[Witchyjoshy]

Is it bad that I laughed?

[Ultimate Paragon]

Once again, Anita makes a good point but hides it amidst quite a bit of inverted misogyny.

As a nation, we have tied violence and masculinity together as if they were two sides of the same coin.  Society may say, quite frequently, that violence is not the answer, but then the various authority figures will call such a thing "for pussies", and say that real men blah blah blah guns.

When you teach people that violence is an acceptable answer to a problem, then people will use it to deadly consequences.

Maybe we should start teaching men to be "more like women" while we're teaching women to be "more like men."

...Quotation marks because, obviously, gender roles are bullshit.

I'm not sure it all boils down to gender issues.  There's probably a very strong psychological and thus biological element to it, but I think the main problem lies in mental healthcare not being successful at intercepting destructive behavior.

"Social roles" are an important aspect of society but I seriously doubt ennui over one's role in society is enough for a guy to start shooting up everything he knows.

I really don't see what's erroneous about saying that these shootings happen because of mental illness.  They do.  You can't possibly reason with someone like that.  It wouldn't matter if we traveled back in time and had a conversation with them to discourage a certain belief and provided irrefutable evidence that they are wrong because they are not rational.  And it an't be expected for them to make them their decisions based on rational beliefs.  They will literally believe whatever they want and there's very little we can do besides treat them.

Adam Lanza was schizophrenic, Eric Harris was a textbook psychopath, Dylan Klebold had a severe inferiority complex, Seung-Hui Cho was also schizophrenic, James Holmes was declared legally insane, and Jared Lee Loughner is a paranoid schizophrenic.  I don't see why we would need to look much further.

[Dakota Bob]

People have said that he was pissed over a breakup and based off recent tweets had lost it. EVERY man has been rejected by a woman during their lives. To actually go and shoot people because of it, that takes something else.

[Canadian Mojo]

Once again, Anita makes a good point but hides it amidst quite a bit of inverted misogyny.

As a nation, we have tied violence and masculinity together as if they were two sides of the same coin.  Society may say, quite frequently, that violence is not the answer, but then the various authority figures will call such a thing "for pussies", and say that real men blah blah blah guns.

When you teach people that violence is an acceptable answer to a problem, then people will use it to deadly consequences.

Maybe we should start teaching men to be "more like women" while we're teaching women to be "more like men."

...Quotation marks because, obviously, gender roles are bullshit.

I'm not sure it all boils down to gender issues.  There's probably a very strong psychological and thus biological element to it, but I think the main problem lies in mental healthcare not being successful at intercepting destructive behavior.

"Social roles" are an important aspect of society but I seriously doubt ennui over one's role in society is enough for a guy to start shooting up everything he knows.

I really don't see what's erroneous about saying that these shootings happen because of mental illness.  They do.  You can't possibly reason with someone like that.  It wouldn't matter if we traveled back in time and had a conversation with them to discourage a certain belief and provided irrefutable evidence that they are wrong because they are not rational.  And it an't be expected for them to make them their decisions based on rational beliefs.  They will literally believe whatever they want and there's very little we can do besides treat them.

Adam Lanza was schizophrenic, Eric Harris was a textbook psychopath, Dylan Klebold had a severe inferiority complex, Seung-Hui Cho was also schizophrenic, James Holmes was declared legally insane, and Jared Lee Loughner is a paranoid schizophrenic.  I don't see why we would need to look much further.

Why do you need to ignore the elephant in the room?

Women also suffer from these mental illnesses but only rarely do they commit the same types of crimes.

If anorexia and bulimia can be something girls/women suffer from thanks in part to social pressure, why is committing violence (of this sort) something that boys/men can't suffer from thanks in part to social pressure?

[I am lizard]

People have said that he was pissed over a breakup and based off recent tweets had lost it. EVERY man has been rejected by a woman during their lives. To actually go and shoot people because of it, that takes something else.

He could have just been an asshole though.


Then again, I wouldn't mind we worked on treating Asshole Disorder.

[Sigmaleph]

Once again, Anita makes a good point but hides it amidst quite a bit of inverted misogyny.

As a nation, we have tied violence and masculinity together as if they were two sides of the same coin.  Society may say, quite frequently, that violence is not the answer, but then the various authority figures will call such a thing "for pussies", and say that real men blah blah blah guns.

When you teach people that violence is an acceptable answer to a problem, then people will use it to deadly consequences.

Maybe we should start teaching men to be "more like women" while we're teaching women to be "more like men."

...Quotation marks because, obviously, gender roles are bullshit.

I'm not sure it all boils down to gender issues.  There's probably a very strong psychological and thus biological element to it, but I think the main problem lies in mental healthcare not being successful at intercepting destructive behavior.

"Social roles" are an important aspect of society but I seriously doubt ennui over one's role in society is enough for a guy to start shooting up everything he knows.

I really don't see what's erroneous about saying that these shootings happen because of mental illness.  They do.  You can't possibly reason with someone like that.  It wouldn't matter if we traveled back in time and had a conversation with them to discourage a certain belief and provided irrefutable evidence that they are wrong because they are not rational.  And it an't be expected for them to make them their decisions based on rational beliefs.  They will literally believe whatever they want and there's very little we can do besides treat them.

Adam Lanza was schizophrenic, Eric Harris was a textbook psychopath, Dylan Klebold had a severe inferiority complex, Seung-Hui Cho was also schizophrenic, James Holmes was declared legally insane, and Jared Lee Loughner is a paranoid schizophrenic.  I don't see why we would need to look much further.

We need to look the tiniest bit further because, y'know, women can be mentally ill too. Schizophrenia and psychopathy show up more commonly in men than in women, but as far as I can tell not by enough of a degree that it covers the difference in shootings (shcizophrenia is 1.4 times more common in men than women, male shooters are far more common than that relative to female shooters. Can't find exact numbers on psychopathy).

Mental illness manifests different in men and women. Why? I don't know, but societal factors, and specifically societal ideas of masculinity, is not an obviously wrong answer. I'm sure biology plays a part, as well; testosterone is linked to aggression and such. But then, I don't think that if Sarkeesian had said "Men are more biologically predisposed towards violent shootings" people would've gone "yep, that seems right, I have no problems with this assertion". I expect the outrage would've been worse.

So why are you in particular calling this "utterly loathsome"? Because she disagrees with you about the causes of a complex societal phenomenon? Everyone does that to everyone else.

edit: partially ninja'd by Canadian Mojo, these posts take time to write.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Once again, Anita makes a good point but hides it amidst quite a bit of inverted misogyny.

As a nation, we have tied violence and masculinity together as if they were two sides of the same coin.  Society may say, quite frequently, that violence is not the answer, but then the various authority figures will call such a thing "for pussies", and say that real men blah blah blah guns.

When you teach people that violence is an acceptable answer to a problem, then people will use it to deadly consequences.

Maybe we should start teaching men to be "more like women" while we're teaching women to be "more like men."

...Quotation marks because, obviously, gender roles are bullshit.

I'm not sure it all boils down to gender issues.  There's probably a very strong psychological and thus biological element to it, but I think the main problem lies in mental healthcare not being successful at intercepting destructive behavior.

"Social roles" are an important aspect of society but I seriously doubt ennui over one's role in society is enough for a guy to start shooting up everything he knows.

I really don't see what's erroneous about saying that these shootings happen because of mental illness.  They do.  You can't possibly reason with someone like that.  It wouldn't matter if we traveled back in time and had a conversation with them to discourage a certain belief and provided irrefutable evidence that they are wrong because they are not rational.  And it an't be expected for them to make them their decisions based on rational beliefs.  They will literally believe whatever they want and there's very little we can do besides treat them.

Adam Lanza was schizophrenic, Eric Harris was a textbook psychopath, Dylan Klebold had a severe inferiority complex, Seung-Hui Cho was also schizophrenic, James Holmes was declared legally insane, and Jared Lee Loughner is a paranoid schizophrenic.  I don't see why we would need to look much further.

Why do you need to ignore the elephant in the room?

Women also suffer from these mental illnesses but only rarely do they commit the same types of crimes.

If anorexia and bulimia can be something girls/women suffer from thanks in part to social pressure, why is committing violence (of this sort) something that boys/men can't suffer from thanks in part to social pressure?

I'm not saying that gender roles aren't involved, just that they're not the main cause.

We need to look the tiniest bit further because, y'know, women can be mentally ill too. Schizophrenia and psychopathy show up more commonly in men than in women, but as far as I can tell not by enough of a degree that it covers the difference in shootings (shcizophrenia is 1.4 times more common in men than women, male shooters are far more common than that relative to female shooters. Can't find exact numbers on psychopathy).

Mental illness manifests different in men and women. Why? I don't know, but societal factors, and specifically societal ideas of masculinity, is not an obviously wrong answer. I'm sure biology plays a part, as well; testosterone is linked to aggression and such. But then, I don't think that if Sarkeesian had said "Men are more biologically predisposed towards violent shootings" people would've gone "yep, that seems right, I have no problems with this assertion". I expect the outrage would've been worse.

So why are you in particular calling this "utterly loathsome"? Because she disagrees with you about the causes of a complex societal phenomenon? Everyone does that to everyone else.

edit: partially ninja'd by Canadian Mojo, these posts take time to write.

It's loathsome because she blamed masculinity for mass shootings.  How exactly is that any different from blaming Islam for terrorism?

It's also loathsome because she was using it to push her agenda and plug a book.

[Witchyjoshy]

Loathsome is an unusually strong word... for anyone but a Gamergater.

For Gamergate, "loathsome" is a word used to describe any woman who dares criticize the movement.  A crime to be punished with doxxing and harassment.

Oh, don't think I haven't noticed it, either.  It's happening more and more frequently, and only to women - men who criticize Gamergate are mysteriously not doxxed.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Loathsome is an unusually strong word... for anyone but a Gamergater.

For Gamergate, "loathsome" is a word used to describe any woman who dares criticize the movement.  A crime to be punished with doxxing and harassment.

Oh, don't think I haven't noticed it, either.  It's happening more and more frequently, and only to women - men who criticize Gamergate are mysteriously not doxxed.

I didn't know Phil Fish was a woman.

[Witchyjoshy]

Loathsome is an unusually strong word... for anyone but a Gamergater.

For Gamergate, "loathsome" is a word used to describe any woman who dares criticize the movement.  A crime to be punished with doxxing and harassment.

Oh, don't think I haven't noticed it, either.  It's happening more and more frequently, and only to women - men who criticize Gamergate are mysteriously not doxxed.

I didn't know Phil Fish was a woman.

He was doxxed?  That's actually news to me.

Still, though, the amount of women doxxed and harassed by Gamergate - not just notable faces, either - is astounding.

And yet Gamergate will continue to claim that every one of them is faking it.

And shit like that is why I hate your favorite movement.

[ironbite]

ETA: Put the post in it's own thread

Ironbite-cause I'm a good boy.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Felica Day: Doxxed within 50 minutes of posting a blog post about her fears of being doxxed by someone affiliated by Gamergate if she dares speak out against Gamergate.

Chris Kluwe:  Still hasn't been doxxed by Gamergate despite direct critism amid a scathing editorial.  We're going on about a week since the original post.

Ironbite-come on...tell me this is about ethics in video game journalism.  Go on.

Unfortunately, GamerGate attracted some misogynistic assholes.  But we're working on dealing with them.  Just look up "#GamerGate Harassment Patrol" on Twitter.

[Second Coming of Madman]

At this point, I should just compile every one of UP's posts like the above into one and redirect anybody who dares to dissent from the almighty black knight to it.