Worst of Social Justice

[guizonde]

both can claim rape. that's why it's in "worst".

I saw a long debate over that one (or a similarly worded one.) Some claimed that obviously the poster means that Josie was unconscious or at least completely wasted and therefore the poster is correct. Except that in that case it should have been worded in such a way. As it is, the poster presents a double standard, particularly by saying that drunk women cannot consent and placing the responsibility only on guys.

...And what about homosexual hook ups? If it is two guys are they both rapists? Two women in the same scenario means that neither of them is a rapist and both are victims?

All very good points.  Now for the rebuttal.

Ironbite-*points at askold* HE'S A RAPIST!

i wasn't expecting that. i loll'd.

[Sigmaleph]

https://archive.is/5wLTq

To me, it seems much more likely that Samus is trans at 6′3″ than cis.

And trans women are real women so all it does is add another interesting layer to her character rather than make her “not really a woman”

"Women can't be tall unless they're trans!"

Jesus Christ, that's sexist.  Gwendoline Christie (who plays Brienne of Tarth on Game of Thrones) is 6'3 and she's cis.

Observing that people assigned male at birth are on average taller than people assigned female at birth is sexist? What?

If the claim is "a woman 6'3" tall is more likely to be trans than cis", I actually did the math and it checks out*, in the specific context of 21st century America in which Samus does not live. How does that translate to the sci-fi setting? Not one goddamn idea, because it's all made up.

Seriously guys, stop policing people's headcanons. It's made up stuff about other made up stuff.

*Roughly three times more likely, using an estimate of trans people as 0.3% of the population, amab height with a mean of 69.1 inches and standard deviation 2.9 inches, afab height with a mean of 63.7 inches and standard deviation 2.7 inches. I'm not putting a lot of confidence in the numbers because I just went with what came up on Google, but the effect is large enough that I think it would stand to scrutiny. I have a limit on  the amount of effort I will put in a single forum post, and apparently that limit is checking the literature to get better numbers for height distributions and percentage of women who are trans

Also I hope you all appreciate that I actually did this entirely in inches. My metric pride is in pain

[Canadian Mojo]

Wait, so the man is automatically at fault even though he was drunk and by their logic could not consent too?

If a guy is sober enough to still get it up...

Delusional but consistent.

don't quote me on this, but with certain meds you can get it up even when drunk as a skunk. viagra and certain antidepressants come to mind. then again, ever heard of the "fear boner"? a man gets a hardon because he's scared for his life? that's why in high school certain guys pull the periscope technique when doing a class presentation. high heartrate, high blood pressure.... but almost unprovable, as nearly no man can go to the police and file a rape report.

Now you're just making excuses you patriarch shill. 

[guizonde]

Wait, so the man is automatically at fault even though he was drunk and by their logic could not consent too?

If a guy is sober enough to still get it up...

Delusional but consistent.

don't quote me on this, but with certain meds you can get it up even when drunk as a skunk. viagra and certain antidepressants come to mind. then again, ever heard of the "fear boner"? a man gets a hardon because he's scared for his life? that's why in high school certain guys pull the periscope technique when doing a class presentation. high heartrate, high blood pressure.... but almost unprovable, as nearly no man can go to the police and file a rape report.

Now you're just making excuses you patriarch shill. 

or there's always the margot verger* school of thought: cattle prod up the rear.

try and get that reference.

[Damen]

Wait, so the man is automatically at fault even though he was drunk and by their logic could not consent too?

If a guy is sober enough to still get it up...

Delusional but consistent.

don't quote me on this, but with certain meds you can get it up even when drunk as a skunk. viagra and certain antidepressants come to mind. then again, ever heard of the "fear boner"? a man gets a hardon because he's scared for his life? that's why in high school certain guys pull the periscope technique when doing a class presentation. high heartrate, high blood pressure.... but almost unprovable, as nearly no man can go to the police and file a rape report.

Now you're just making excuses you patriarch shill. 

or there's always the margot verger* school of thought: cattle prod up the rear.

try and get that reference.

Pretty sure I saw that on an episode of Law and Order: SVU.

[Ultimate Paragon]

(click to show/hide)

Wow, this is some intense Oppression Olympics.
Such big words and huge rants, and enough straw to start a forest fire.

[Sigmaleph]

(click to show/hide)

Wow, this is some intense Oppression Olympics.
Such big words and huge rants, and enough straw to start a forest fire.

If you think that's about oppression olympics, you are missing the point.

"We're just like you, except with this one tiny difference, so give us rights" is a commonly used pro-gay-rights argument, and it's rather understandable too. Normalising LGBTQ people is a step towards acceptance.

Buuuuut there's also the complaint from the people who aren't just identical to the societal idea of monogamous marriage and acceptable political views and respectable jobs and so on and so forth that this throws them under the bus. "We deserve rights because we are a nuclear family" has at least some subtext that being a nuclear family is important. Standard narratives optimised to be nice and non-threatening and baseball and apple pie don't help and possibly hurt the people who don't fit those narratives.

Which is why you get the weird dynamics like people going "same-sex marriage is a victory for cis white gay men, fuck those guys". I don't agree with it, but it comes from a place where it looks like all these campaigns are not helping you, they are helping the LGBTQ people that can be sufficiently sanitised to appeal to mainstream society, and there's a fear that once they've got theirs they won't use their newfound social capital to help you, just to keep the new status quo.

And some people do that, sometimes! Bisexual erasure from gay people is a thing. Lesbian TERFs are a thing. Trans men and women shitting on non-binary people is a thing.*

 It's unfair to treat all 'normalised' LGBTQ people as though they'd fuck over the rest, or as if they're deliberately pushing a narrative where they are "the good ones". But it's also dumb to lean too much on the normalised narratives to push for LGBT rights. At some point, we want people to realise that your rights should not depend on you fitting nice narratives and just on, y'know, being a fucking human being. I think there are legitimate reasons to think normalising particular kinds of LGBT people can be a double-edged sword in that regard.


*Um, bias note, I'm bisexual and gender-weird, so maybe I'm personally sensitive to this stuff.

[Ultimate Paragon]

If it's an "anomaly", then why are the majority of child abusers female?

http://www.safehorizon.org/page/child-abuse-facts-56.html

[RavynousHunter]

NO WIRE HANGERS!

[Sigmaleph]

If it's an "anomaly", then why are the majority of child abusers female?

http://www.safehorizon.org/page/child-abuse-facts-56.html

...because those are separate crimes and so the perpetrator demographics are different?

I mean, I disagree with the original argument too, but your reply makes no sense.

[Ultimate Paragon]

If it's an "anomaly", then why are the majority of child abusers female?

http://www.safehorizon.org/page/child-abuse-facts-56.html

...because those are separate crimes and so the perpetrator demographics are different?

I mean, I disagree with the original argument too, but your reply makes no sense.

Pedophilic acts are a form of child abuse.  And female child molesters almost always get off easy compared to male child molesters.

[Svata]

Statistics,  please.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Statistics,  please.

Here you go:

https://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2012/06/01/feminist-researchers-find-female-sex-offenders-get-slaps-on-the-wrist/

[Sigmaleph]

If it's an "anomaly", then why are the majority of child abusers female?

http://www.safehorizon.org/page/child-abuse-facts-56.html

...because those are separate crimes and so the perpetrator demographics are different?

I mean, I disagree with the original argument too, but your reply makes no sense.

Pedophilic acts are a form of child abuse.  And female child molesters almost always get off easy compared to male child molesters.

A form of child abuse where the perpetrators are most often men.

The specific claims made was that women committing rape, murder or child molesting is "an anomaly". As far as I know, the statisitics at least bear out that they are less likely to commit those crimes in particular. Whether that justifies the 'anomaly' statement, that's more subjective. Either way, bringing up some other thing that women do more often than men does not address the claims made, even if it's a superset of one of the crimes listed.

Not sure what severity of punishment has to do with anything.

[Ultimate Paragon]

If it's an "anomaly", then why are the majority of child abusers female?

http://www.safehorizon.org/page/child-abuse-facts-56.html

...because those are separate crimes and so the perpetrator demographics are different?

I mean, I disagree with the original argument too, but your reply makes no sense.

Pedophilic acts are a form of child abuse.  And female child molesters almost always get off easy compared to male child molesters.

A form of child abuse where the perpetrators are most often men.

The specific claims made was that women committing rape, murder or child molesting is "an anomaly". As far as I know, the statisitics at least bear out that they are less likely to commit those crimes in particular. Whether that justifies the 'anomaly' statement, that's more subjective. Either way, bringing up some other thing that women do more often than men does not address the claims made, even if it's a superset of one of the crimes listed.

Not sure what severity of punishment has to do with anything.

Those statistics may not be accurate.  Women are rarely arrested or prosecuted for child molestation in all but the most blatant and obvious cases.  And even in obvious cases, people don't always act against them.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=734_1399423969

As for the severity of punishment, it demonstrates the fact that female child molesters aren't taken as seriously as male child molesters, which ties into the aforementioned flawed statistical analysis.