Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1548182 times)

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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6705 on: August 05, 2015, 10:42:09 pm »
According to The Mary Sue Ronda Rousey is transmisogynistic.  Why?  Because she acknowledges that a post-op transwoman would almost certainly have an advantage over female fighters.

(click to show/hide)

She's not wrong.  Gender reassignment is not a perfect art; you still have the same body structure you were born with for the most part, and that can certainly make a difference.

Skeletal structure, but not muscle. As far as I know almost all of the advantage is gone.

I don't think it's necessairly transphobic to have that opinion, mind you, but as far as I can tell it's factually incorrect.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6706 on: August 05, 2015, 11:02:41 pm »
According to The Mary Sue Ronda Rousey is transmisogynistic.  Why?  Because she acknowledges that a post-op transwoman would almost certainly have an advantage over female fighters.

(click to show/hide)

She's not wrong.  Gender reassignment is not a perfect art; you still have the same body structure you were born with for the most part, and that can certainly make a difference.

Skeletal structure, but not muscle. As far as I know almost all of the advantage is gone.

I don't think it's necessairly transphobic to have that opinion, mind you, but as far as I can tell it's factually incorrect.

Does transition therapy make you shorter?  Narrow your shoulders?  Shrink your hands?  Even with therapy, transwomen keep a lot of male physical traits that could easily give them an advantage.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6707 on: August 05, 2015, 11:20:16 pm »
No. Like I said, it preserves skeletal structure (ish, depending on when you start and how long you've been under HRT).

But I think most of the advantage is in muscle mass, and once you take that away the rest is not a big deal (compared to natural variation in cis women). I could be wrong, I'm just speculating here.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6708 on: August 05, 2015, 11:32:01 pm »
Rousey's comments were from two years ago. I hope she has learned a lot since then. And in any case, she and other top UFC fighters train against men every single day...and kick their asses. It's about skill and technique.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6709 on: August 05, 2015, 11:44:33 pm »
Yeah, insisting on the old "structural inherent strength" thing is basically what Vox Day hinges his arguments on, and its well observed how faulty those are.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6710 on: August 06, 2015, 12:13:18 am »
Yeah, insisting on the old "structural inherent strength" thing is basically what Vox Day hinges his arguments on, and its well observed how faulty those are.

Ideology makes strange bedfellows.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6711 on: August 06, 2015, 12:49:58 am »
Wasn't Ultie a Sad Puppy? Wouldn't that make him and Vox Day buddies?
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Offline davedan

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6712 on: August 06, 2015, 04:04:04 am »
As much as I hate to defend UP - until I saw the research that the muscle mass was lost, I always thought it was like how steroids provide an unfair advantage. Because there is a residual muscle mass that remains even after you go off cycle that is never lost.

I also don't like this thing where if you don't 100% ideologically agree with someone you can't like them.  Even if you like them for something completely unrelated to their ideology like music or sport.

For instance Don Bradman was a reactionary and difficult man, but that doesn't mean you can't like him for being the greatest fucking cricketer ever.

Offline Sylvana

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6713 on: August 06, 2015, 05:40:07 am »
No. Like I said, it preserves skeletal structure (ish, depending on when you start and how long you've been under HRT).

But I think most of the advantage is in muscle mass, and once you take that away the rest is not a big deal (compared to natural variation in cis women). I could be wrong, I'm just speculating here.

Depending on the activity the difference in skeletal structure does make a noticeable difference. In people performing sports, two people of the same sex chemically would have roughly identical musculature. However sometimes the larger skeleton of a trans individual can provide greater leverage to that musculature.

Although from my perspective, I hate exercising too much as I am aware that my frame would allow for a more masculine musculature and so I try and keep it as slim as possible. Others might feel differently though. Not everyone passes as well as I do, and so for them the negative aspects of utilizing their masculine skeletal structure is a non issue for them.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6714 on: August 06, 2015, 05:06:24 pm »
Wasn't Ultie a Sad Puppy? Wouldn't that make him and Vox Day buddies?

Vox is a Rabid Puppy.  And I fucking hate him.


Quote
Critics have argued that the survey format used in most family violence studies, the Conflict Tactics Scale, is flawed and likely to miss some of the worst assaults on women—especially post-separation attacks. Yet two major studies using a different methodology—the 2000 National Violence Against Women Survey by the National Institute of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey published last February—have also found that some 40% of those reporting serious partner violence in the past year are men. (Both studies show a much larger gender gap in lifetime reports of partner violence; one possible explanation for this discrepancy is that men may be more likely to let such experiences fade from memory over time since they have less cultural support for seeing themselves as victims, particularly of female violence.)

So men are almost as likely (according to studies) to be the victims of domestic abuse but they get much less support. Most shelters are for women only, authorities are more likely to disregard their claims and more often than not male victims are blamed by most people around them. (Often someone tells them to "man up" or some feminist puts on a teachers hat and calmly explains that all his pain and suffering is caused by THE PATRIARCHY and therefore it is their own fault because they are a man)
You yourself just admitted that "THE PATRIARCHY" ( or "toxic masculinity" in this case ) plays a role in discrimination against male victims.

Granted men fearing they may be seen as the aggressor plays a big role (the "but me can't get abused" mentality also plays in)

I'd say another factor is the "women are wonderful" effect.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 05:08:44 pm by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6715 on: August 06, 2015, 05:42:17 pm »
Wasn't Ultie a Sad Puppy? Wouldn't that make him and Vox Day buddies?

Vox is a Rabid Puppy.  And I fucking hate him.

Sad puppies provide a very thin cover for Beale and his crowd. It might not have been that way three years ago, but the dynamics of those movements today are clearly coordinated.

UP hates how the whole thing is so easy to see through.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6716 on: August 06, 2015, 05:58:31 pm »
Wasn't Ultie a Sad Puppy? Wouldn't that make him and Vox Day buddies?

Vox is a Rabid Puppy.  And I fucking hate him.

Sad puppies provide a very thin cover for Beale and his crowd. It might not have been that way three years ago, but the dynamics of those movements today are clearly coordinated.

UP hates how the whole thing is so easy to see through.

Bold claim.  Where's your evidence?

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6717 on: August 06, 2015, 09:09:36 pm »
@ guizonde: I think I like the way you think.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6718 on: August 06, 2015, 09:15:58 pm »
Seems Krysta has a partner in crime.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6719 on: August 07, 2015, 02:29:00 pm »


Does this mean the patriarchy isn't a white creation?