Worst of Social Justice

[lord gibbon]

Wow, didn't think I'd start something like this. I suppose the Native American connected example fueled things. I brought that up as the example because I first learned about it in my Native American history class, and was utterly bemused that anyone rational would think that respecting a "spiritual belief" was more important than the advancement of learning. I should emphasize that applies to all cultures and beliefs; Ethiopian, Italian, Chinese, Maori, English, etc..

[dpareja]

Just because something has no immediately tangible value doesn't mean its useless.  Look at most of quantum physics.

I see your "most of quantum physics" and raise you "all of pure mathematics." Hardy would shit himself if he knew that number theory was the key to secure online financial transactions.

[Even Then]

To exist is to predate, unless you're living off a purely synthetic diet (which I think would either be impossible or severely detrimental). That apple you're eating? Another animal could've eaten it. Those crops? The farmland was cut into the homes of other animals. You want to eat vegan? Fine. But do not pretend you're above the cycle. Do not pretend you're above the rest of us because you never see the exploited animals in your ledger.

I'm honestly surprised to see you adopting this attitude. I dunno why, I just... am.

I've had it for a while, now. What can I say? I'm full of surprises.

[TheContrarian]

Rights? What, the right to have their beliefs validated by everyone else? I'm pretty sure that's not a right anybody has or should ever have.

Property rights.

It's not a question of agreeing with them. It's a question of taking something (a corpse, in this case) that belongs to them. Without a very compelling reason, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with it.

Property is theft.

[mellenORL]

Lizard, the skeleton is 9 thousand years old, and archeologists and ethnologists, including Native American archeologists and ethnologists, can safely assert that the chances this particular individual is a direct ancestor is just about nil. American tribes moved and blended and moved again constantly throughout prehistory. If the skeleton could be magically fleshed out and animated, he wouldn't care about or know about or relate to the modern tribe at all.

[TheContrarian]

Ok, I have an idea.
How about the Scientists keep the skeleton, but hand s massive payment to the tribe.

Trade for it with some blankets...

[rookie]

Ok, I have an idea.
How about the Scientists keep the skeleton, but hand s massive payment to the tribe.

Trade for it with some blankets...

That made me laugh. But there are other ways to "pay" for the skeleton, ways where both "sides" can hold their heads up in pride. Allow the scientists to do their thing but have a holy man there to make sure everything is on the level?

[Sigmaleph]

Plus, even vegetables are, essentially, dead organisms.  You can't eat without killing something.

Unless you're a breatharian.

Won't someone please think of the O₂ molecules!!!

[TheL]

I agree that if the ethnic group in question is still around, you should be super-careful not to step on toes WRT burial sites.

But, for example, there have been NO ethnic Ancient Egyptians since the early Muslims essentially wiped them out.  King Tut has NO descendants to complain about his post-exhumation treatment, really.


As long as you're respectful in treatment of the remains (I'm thinking of idiot Victorians who had mummy-unwrapping parties for kicks, and that sort of thing), remains from peoples without descendants can and should be examined without any real issues.

And if the descendants ARE still around, I'd say take small samples, X-rays, and other things that can be done without causing major damage, and once you've got small amounts of "dead guy" to experiment on, sure, why not let them re-bury the body?  Science benefits, the people feel connected to their ancestors, everybody wins!

[pyro]

Property is theft.

Ha ha.

[I am lizard]

[davedan]

Well he's not wrong about anarchists being wankers

[lord gibbon]

Dude, I'm actually a fan of Lenin, flawed as he was, but that's just ludicrous. Lenin was a communist, not merely a socialist, which existed long before his, and the experiment failed as soon as Stalin took over. This is nothing more than preaching a faith, not arguing a point.

[Even Then]

"the poor and unwashed"... I'm pretty sure the writer's taking the piss.

[guizonde]

Well he's not wrong about anarchists being wankers

i should take offense to that, but people who call themselves old-school political anarchists are of the bomb throwing kind. i'm surprised the op didn't mention the black hand, who was the spark that ignited the powder keg of europe in 1914. you know, fraggin' franz ferdinand?

also, most of these achievements came from the enlightenment, not lenin. but, hey, we've got a socialist droid here. can't expect critical thinking.