Man shoots black kid cops do nothing

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Oh look at this, Stormfront is posting fake pictures of Trayvon and claiming that they are real to discredit him and say his killing was "justified". http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/26/stormfront-deliberately-shows-wrong-photo-of-trayvon-martin-looking-gangsta-image/

Listen up racists, even if those pictures were real, it still doesn't justify killing him.

But I learned from right-wing bloggers that he WAS a "gangsta." Because he referred to himself as "nigga." That "implies gang membership." Ergo he deserved being shot, or something

[davedan]

See the thing I keep coming back to is that none of this background stuff is relevant. Really the Sanford Police started it when they said in their reasons for not charging Zimmerman that: "he has a clean record" and "we respect his background". At the same time it is not relevant if Zimmerman had been arrested before or even charged or convicted.

Neither of which is relevant to whether the shooting was murder/manslaughter or self-defence. For the same reasons Martin's background is not relevant to whether it was murder/manslaughter or self-defence. 

As Kit Walker said in the Worst Comics thread - "What is relevant is what they were doing that night".

I also agree that this should not be tried in the Media and as much information should be obtained without jumping to conclusions. However it seems to me that without the media this was a case that was NEVER going to be tried at all. And it should be. That's what people should be upset about that this wasn't even going to get to a jury until people started complaining about it in the media.

[Shane for Wax]

The man who has been constantly defending Zimmerman has admitted he didn't know Zimmerman that well at all. I can't find the link now but it's on MSNBC.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

The man who has been constantly defending Zimmerman has admitted he didn't know Zimmerman that well at all. I can't find the link now but it's on MSNBC.

...so this case is officially a clusterfuck? (I believe that's the correct terminology.)

[Shane for Wax]

I would say so... *sigh*

[Dantes Virgil]

The man who has been constantly defending Zimmerman has admitted he didn't know Zimmerman that well at all. I can't find the link now but it's on MSNBC.

...so this case is officially a clusterfuck? (I believe that's the correct terminology.)

LOL.  Yeah, I think that's the one thing everyone can agree about in this case. 

[Dantes Virgil]

The smear campaign is not "why was he in the neighborhood?" but "he probably did drugs," "he looked like a gangsta," "he had gold teeth." (Yes, I have seen that as an excuse for why Zimmerman was afraid of him)

From Zimmerman?  Most likely not, which means it is nothing but speculation.

No, from people who are also saying, "He's not the angel everyone portrays him as."

And if we're interested in getting all the facts, let's talk about how Zimmerman has been arrested three separate times and never charged.

One was pled down through a program, but the details of these things are sealed with an injunction right now.  I'm sure more will come out later.  As to the first link, if that's an example of what you're referring to, then sure, right wing bloggers are trying to smear him.  The mainstream reports of why he was suspended, though, which was what I posted, makes no reference to gansters, gold teeth, or anything else that could be construed as smear tactics.  One would assume those who frequent the sort of blog you posted are probably the kind who've already made up their minds.  I wouldn't say that the general public is on those sites.  They're getting their news through Yahoo, abcnews.com, etc.  So in that sense, I don't find reporting the baggie to be a smear campaign. 

[Sylvana]

See the thing I keep coming back to is that none of this background stuff is relevant. Really the Sanford Police started it when they said in their reasons for not charging Zimmerman that: "he has a clean record" and "we respect his background". At the same time it is not relevant if Zimmerman had been arrested before or even charged or convicted.

Neither of which is relevant to whether the shooting was murder/manslaughter or self-defence. For the same reasons Martin's background is not relevant to whether it was murder/manslaughter or self-defence. 

As Kit Walker said in the Worst Comics thread - "What is relevant is what they were doing that night".

I also agree that this should not be tried in the Media and as much information should be obtained without jumping to conclusions. However it seems to me that without the media this was a case that was NEVER going to be tried at all. And it should be. That's what people should be upset about that this wasn't even going to get to a jury until people started complaining about it in the media.

The backgrounds are marginally important if only because there are no reliable witnesses of the actual event. Thus we have to use available evidence based on personality and background to figure out the most likely scenario. The fact that Zimmerman seems to have a history of causing trouble lends precedence to the notion that he started the confrontation. However, similar background checks need to be made about Martin because it could imply that he started that confrontation and thus Zimmerman was "justified" in his self-defense.

However, you are right in one thing though, I doubt anything would have happened if the media did not step up and cause a stink. I doubt this would have seen justice and to make it worse those within the police department that were happy to just ignore this case would still be free and unchallenged to ignore other cases. Even if Zimmerman is found to be innocent of murder gets off free on self-defense, the fact that the federal government is looking into the conduct of the police department is a good thing.

Unfortunately the media is becoming clogged with lies, opini9ons and falsities. An example is how fox news went on a pro9longed rant about how Martin could have been suspended for everything from theft to fighting. The different media sources are picking sides and that is a problem, they are negatively affecting public opinion and may affect the juries decision when this does go to court.

[davedan]

See the thing I keep coming back to is that none of this background stuff is relevant. Really the Sanford Police started it when they said in their reasons for not charging Zimmerman that: "he has a clean record" and "we respect his background". At the same time it is not relevant if Zimmerman had been arrested before or even charged or convicted.

Neither of which is relevant to whether the shooting was murder/manslaughter or self-defence. For the same reasons Martin's background is not relevant to whether it was murder/manslaughter or self-defence. 

As Kit Walker said in the Worst Comics thread - "What is relevant is what they were doing that night".

I also agree that this should not be tried in the Media and as much information should be obtained without jumping to conclusions. However it seems to me that without the media this was a case that was NEVER going to be tried at all. And it should be. That's what people should be upset about that this wasn't even going to get to a jury until people started complaining about it in the media.

The backgrounds are marginally important if only because there are no reliable witnesses of the actual event. Thus we have to use available evidence based on personality and background to figure out the most likely scenario. The fact that Zimmerman seems to have a history of causing trouble lends precedence to the notion that he started the confrontation. However, similar background checks need to be made about Martin because it could imply that he started that confrontation and thus Zimmerman was "justified" in his self-defense.

No the backgrounds are of not even marginal importance. They are far more prejudicial than they are probatative. That is why previous convictions are inadmissable in Court (prior to conviction).  Moreover the good or bad character of either doesn't make any of the possible outcomes inherently more or less likely. This was a single event. Not a series of events.

But you know what as far as I am concerned it would have been appropriate to charge and try Zimmerman on his own version of events as it seems to me:

I saw suspicious guy.
Called police.
Guy Ran.
I chased him.
Confronted guy.
He attacked me.
I Shot him.
Shot person was unarmed.

For me I would charge him with murder (manslaughter at least here is an alternative verdict) and let the jury decide on self defence. You know let the jury do what it is there for.

[kefkaownsall]

Also just saw this on the Daily Show his lawyer refused to show up for an interview

[Distind]

Also, don't put the kid on a fucking cross people, he was still a kid and may well have done something stupid. None of it would make it worth shooting him, even if he had attacked someone twice his size out of, ironically, concern for his own life. But I doubt the kid was saint, particularly with that suspension he had going for him.

The bolded is the only part that's important in this entire paragraph.

Aside from pointing out the kid didn't posess a fucking halo like a number of people here are implying. At the very least the twat that shot him deserves manslaughter.

And just how damn hard is it to get the statement he gave to police released anyway? They did get one right? Before he had time to start remembering his way to victimhood?

[Shane for Wax]

Sanford police recommended charging Zimmerman with Martin's death, but chief claimed 'no probable cause

The Miami Herald reports that the Sanford Police Department, at the conclusion of its Trayvon Martin investigation, recommended that the prosecutor file charges against the shooter George Zimmerman. Angela Corey, the special prosecutor now assigned to the case, confirmed the report:

“As far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias* request, meaning: ‘We’re through with our investigation and here it is for you.’ The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in mid-stream.”

*A capias is a request for charges to be filed.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Also, don't put the kid on a fucking cross people, he was still a kid and may well have done something stupid. None of it would make it worth shooting him, even if he had attacked someone twice his size out of, ironically, concern for his own life. But I doubt the kid was saint, particularly with that suspension he had going for him.

The bolded is the only part that's important in this entire paragraph.

Aside from pointing out the kid didn't posess a fucking halo like a number of people here are implying.

Really though what 17-year old is a complete angel? I sure as hell wasn't. But if the worst he did was get suspended from school and get caught with weed and a screwdriver in his backpack, he's still better than a lot of teens I know.

[Witchyjoshy]

Wait, who's making the kid out to be a saint?

Aside from the conservative dumbheads erecting liberal strawmen, that is.

[gyeonghwa]

Aside from being untrue, this conservative smear campaign is such a stupid argument. So what if he wasn't the 'perfect' teenager? So what if he might have tried pot once? You swear like every no other "good" teens do the same. It still doesn't mean you can kill him. I guess the next time I walk to 7 Eleven in a hoodie because it's cold I can expect to be fucking shot and then ignored by the police.