Good Things Religion has Done

[Jack Mann]

And what objectively bad things done by religious people couldn't be done by atheists?

[ironbite]

Religion is like fame.  Sometimes it brings out the best in people, while other times, it brings out the worst.

That doesn't answer anything resembling Cait's question DD.

Ironbite-try again

[Askold]

What objectively good, moral things did the Quakers do that could NOT have been done by an atheist? Name ANYTHING that is objectively moral that a theist can say or do that an atheist cannot. Hitchens posed this challenge and offered $10,000 to anybody who could do this. Nobody could. In the end, it just doesn't seem to be possible. You just CAN'T prove that religion makes people good. Similarly, as anti-theist as I am, I concede that it doesn't TURN people bad. People are good or bad alongside being religious or not. Religious beliefs don't actually MAKE you a good person--or a bad one. Scripture is a wonderful tool and is so arcane and ambiguous that you can find support for nearly any argument if you choose to interpret or exploit it that way.

Religion can certainly be used to persuade or manipulate people to adopting certain beliefs or ideals, but so can other philosophies in the right hands. It's not a power religion itself has, but rather the way it's being used and the people it's being used ON.

Even if it takes all day, at this point I just want to know what you think religion has caused people to say and do that's not only objectively good, but also something unique to religion.

Why does it have to be unique to religion? Is anyone here trying to prove that religion makes people better than atheism? I thought that the topic was just about how for some people religion is a force for good. That it can inspire people to greatness. This does not mean that it would be the only thing to do so, some people have been inspired to do nice things due to political ideology and some people are just nice people who do good things wether or not they have a religious teachings telling them to do good.

I mean if you believe in karma or something similar (what is that wiccan thing called in english? rule of three?) teaching you that doing good things will benefit you as well it might inspire you to do good.

Certainly you will find people who claim that they are "better" than others because of their faith or lack of faith but I don't see much of that on these forums.

[Witchyjoshy]

And what objectively bad things done by religious people couldn't be done by atheists?

This, and...

Why does it have to be unique to religion?

This.

They are both excellent points, IMO.

This topic is called "Good Things Religion has Done."  Not "Good Things ONLY Religion has done."  All this stuff, saying things like "Name one thing that a religious person could do that an atheist couldn't" is just red herring stuff.

And yet many of these same anti-theists who point this out will turn around and point out all the bad things religious people have done, and use that as evidence that "religion is bad."  It's hypocritical and an insult to logical thinking.  Not saying you're doing this, but still.

It feels like you're trying to define the parameters very specifically.  I don't like that.

[Osama bin Bambi]

I don't think the point of this thread is to argue that religion is superior to atheism. The point is to demonstrate where religious individuals or ideologies have contributed something positive to the world, instead of always viewing it through the lens of its old rape-pillage-destroy mentality.

[Dynamic Dragon]

That's exactly my point.

[rookie]

Need I remind you of the countless people who were inspired to improve themselves through religion?  Need I remind you that MLK was a reverend, that Mr. Rogers was a minister?  Need I remind you of the nuns who have fought for justice and quality of life?

So you are saying religion can be an inspiration for good. Well, yes. That is true. Simplistic, but true. But I don't think it's fair to say that religion is intrinsically good. Any more than it's fair to say it's intrinsically bad. You and I can sit here all day playing the naming religious examples, good and bad. You say MLK, I'll counter with Phelps. You bring up Mr. Rogers. I'll avoid the obvious Mr. Rogers and instead go with Eric Rudolph. You said the nuns who faught for justice and equality of life. Since they weren't named, I'll follow in kind by saying the puritans who banished suspected witches both in the 1600s and a lot more recently in Africa. Religion has been the excuse for good as well as bad. You say religion and human betterment go hand in hand. I'd counter and say knowlegde and human betterment go hand in hand a lot better than religion.

[Distind]

And what objectively bad things done by religious people couldn't be done by atheists?

Just to rise the challenge here

Kill people in the name of their god.


Anyway, religion doesn't accomplish much, people accomplish plenty. When you're dealing with a group that figures anything involved in religion is contained completely within the heads of it's followers(such as a fair chunk of fstdt) you're going to meet some resistance in crediting it with anything. Ultimately in my view it's still the person who did it, and religion is only a small part of why. Typically.

[Dynamic Dragon]

*snip*
Just to rise the challenge here

Kill people in the name of their god.
*snip*

Communists killed in the name of Atheism.

[FirsthandTuna]

*snip*
Just to rise the challenge here

Kill people in the name of their god.
*snip*

Communists killed in the name of Atheism.

I don't remember reading anything reliable that indicated that Stalin and Mao specifically killed people for the glory of atheism.

[Osama bin Bambi]

*snip*
Just to rise the challenge here

Kill people in the name of their god.
*snip*

Communists killed in the name of Atheism.

I don't remember reading anything reliable that indicated that Stalin and Mao specifically killed people for the glory of atheism.

No, but they did persecute and kill people for being religious because they felt that religion was a threat to their officially atheist state. Which isn't to say that Stalin used the Church when it suited him, but Mao was much more virulently anti-religious. One of the "Four Olds" that the Cultural Revolution meant to overthrow, for instance, was religion and superstition. It was generally a reaction to what they perceived as "oppressive to the working class" and "brought in by foreign influence," but it's intellectually dishonest to discount what happened there.

[QueenofHearts]

As a trans-asterisk-woman, I've never had anything to be worried about from religion. Nope, never.

[ironbite]

*smacks Queen on the ass*  Cept gettin' in the kitchin and makin' me a sammich!

Ironbite-make yourself one and leave the dishes for me to clean up as well.

[mythbuster43]

A lot of the people involved in the abolitionist and Civil Rights movements were Christians.

[ASkeptic]

Well the Catholic Church gives a lot to third world countries like Haiti, with programs like Food for the Poor. They also have programs that help with post-abortion counseling.