Santorum wants a spiritual war against liberal Protestants

[Undecided]

Holy crap, it's nickerson with tits. Both in quality of post and quantity. Great.

Open-mindedness does not mean giving all ideas equal merit. It's being willing to accept new ideas. There's a huge difference between the two.

Um, it Is being willing to accept new ideas. And that means all new ideas have to be given equal merit until you have reason to consider them less meritorious. I think we're talking about two slightly differing definitions of the same thing.

If you assume something is wrong without giving it any consideration, that's not open minded. Period.

I believe you're wrong because I don;t like what you're saying? Thats not open minded either.

Your point is correct. However, if it's the point that you were trying to make at the beginning of the thread, then you completely failed at putting in a way that would make your audience (us!) receptive to it, and it mostly seems like you're engaging in epistemological sophistry to cover up your original snafu.

There's being open-minded and then there's being stupid.

Ironbite-guess which one you are right now.

There is absolutely no reason for this to devolve into name-calling.

[Eniliad]

Clearly Podkayne didn't read my nicer post. So I can feel free to dispense with the niceties.

Alright, assertion: The universe was created by an enormous space-monkey masturbating into the void. Natural disasters are caused by ricocheting jism. Open-minded enough to consider that? Of course not (I hope). That's because some ideas are, without evidence to substantiate them, inherently ridiculous. Let me repeat Santorum's assertion: Satan is using abortions to try to destroy the foundation of America, which is apparently god's favorite new nation (sorry Israel).

Seriously? This is the hill you're going to die on?

[gyeonghwa]

Podkayne, there is an extent to which open-mindedness can only do so much good. I can be open minded about things like communion wafers and such but I can't be open-minded about anti-gay bullying or rape apology.

If Santorum were to advocate stoning people who had premarital sex, would you be open-minded about that?

[Podkayne]

Clearly Podkayne didn't read my nicer post. So I can feel free to dispense with the niceties.

Alright, assertion: The universe was created by an enormous space-monkey masturbating into the void. Natural disasters are caused by ricocheting jism. Open-minded enough to consider that? Of course not (I hope). That's because some ideas are, without evidence to substantiate them, inherently ridiculous. Let me repeat Santorum's assertion: Satan is using abortions to try to destroy the foundation of America, which is apparently god's favorite new nation (sorry Israel).

Seriously? This is the hill you're going to die on?

Yes. If you aren't prepared to consider it before dismissing it, you aren't open minded. Any way you put it.

[gyeonghwa]

Godwin time,

Would you be willing to consider Hitler's final solution to the Jewish population in Europe? Are you willing to be open-minded towards that, or do you recognize there is a limit?

[Podkayne]

Godwin time,

Would you be willing to consider Hitler's final solution to the Jewish population in Europe? Are you willing to be open-minded towards that, or do you recognize there is a limit?

Nope. Open mindedness, consider it on its merrits, rather than condemn it as an a priori.

[Eniliad]

Open-mindedness without critical thinking makes you no wiser than the closed-minded bigots who refuse to accept new ideas.

[gyeonghwa]

Godwin time,

Would you be willing to consider Hitler's final solution to the Jewish population in Europe? Are you willing to be open-minded towards that, or do you recognize there is a limit?

Nope. Open mindedness, consider it on its merrits, rather than condemn it as an a priori.

Nope to what? If you can't see right of the back that Hitler's final solution is not a good thing . . .

Okay lets make it simpler. I give you a bottle of piss. It's clearly labeled piss, it smells of piss, in fact you saw me piss in it. If I told you it was apple juice, would you be "open minded" enough to drink?

[Podkayne]

Open-mindedness without critical thinking makes you no wiser than the closed-minded bigots who refuse to accept new ideas.

Of course, critical thinking is vital!

[Podkayne]

Godwin time,

Would you be willing to consider Hitler's final solution to the Jewish population in Europe? Are you willing to be open-minded towards that, or do you recognize there is a limit?

Nope. Open mindedness, consider it on its merrits, rather than condemn it as an a priori.

Nope to what? If you can't see right of the back that Hitler's final solution is not a good thing . . .

Okay lets make it simpler. I give you a bottle of piss. It's clearly labeled piss, it smells of piss, in fact you saw me piss in it. If I told you it was apple juice, would you be "open minded" enough to drink?

I don't think you understand how this woks, how can you know the final solution is a bad thing unless you think about it first?

Just assuming things are wrong without actually thinking about them is totally a fundie thing to do.

[Shane for Wax]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQDhTQ1au3M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQDhTQ1au3M</a>

[StallChaser]

From a strictly rational standpoint, you can't reject something out of hand just because it's repugnant.  But you can reject it if it makes no sense or is of no practical use.

Fundamentalist theology doesn't make sense, because here we have a perfect god that fucks up his creation, then blames the creation for his own fuckup.  There's also the fact that there's nothing in the world or human mind that directs anyone towards a specific god, or that god's goals.  It also forces you to believe everything in the Bible literally, rejecting all scientific evidence to the contrary.

The question "what if he's actually right" can be applied to literally every belief system ever made.  If I was to say the entire universe was made yesterday with everything created in place -- memories, light on its way to places -- to create the illusion of age, you can't really reject that out of hand, either.  But what's the point in believing that if nothing useful comes of it?  An open mind is one thing, but to consider the idea of Santorum being right, without considering every version of reality anyone could possibly pull out of their ass, would be giving him way too much credit.

I don't think you understand how this woks, how can you know the final solution is a bad thing unless you think about it first?

Just assuming things are wrong without actually thinking about them is totally a fundie thing to do.

Put that way, yes.  But we shouldn't always have to show our work.  That would be like making someone show how they got from 5+5 to 10 in a class on partial differential equations.

[Podkayne]

From a strictly rational standpoint, you can't reject something out of hand just because it's repugnant.  But you can reject it if it makes no sense or is of no practical use.

Fundamentalist theology doesn't make sense, because here we have a perfect god that fucks up his creation, then blames the creation for his own fuckup.  There's also the fact that there's nothing in the world or human mind that directs anyone towards a specific god, or that god's goals.  It also forces you to believe everything in the Bible literally, rejecting all scientific evidence to the contrary.

The question "what if he's actually right" can be applied to literally every belief system ever made.  If I was to say the entire universe was made yesterday with everything created in place -- memories, light on its way to places -- to create the illusion of age, you can't really reject that out of hand, either.  But what's the point in believing that if nothing useful comes of it?  An open mind is one thing, but to consider the idea of Santorum being right, without considering every version of reality anyone could possibly pull out of their ass, would be giving him way too much credit.

I don't think you understand how this woks, how can you know the final solution is a bad thing unless you think about it first?

Just assuming things are wrong without actually thinking about them is totally a fundie thing to do.

Put that way, yes.  But we shouldn't always have to show our work.  That would be like making someone show how they got from 5+5 to 10 in a class on partial differential equations.

Thanks for your consideration, but please, I never said what if he's right? Because I don't think he is, even though every one seems to be acting as though thats what I said. What I actually asked was, ever consider he may be right?

I'm not suggesting he is right, I'm asking to see who is open minded enough to consider the possibility.

I'm sorry I said anything at all now, as the subtlety of the distinction seems lost and I'm being attacked.

[ironbite]

No I just have to go with what Shane posted.

Ironbite-seriously...what?

[Podkayne]

No I just have to go with what Shane posted.

Ironbite-seriously...what?

You're the guy who thinks you should be able to tell religious people their beliefs are bullshit aren't you?