Ferguson murder

[I am lizard]

While I agree that the verdict is bull****, I think the rioting in the town is uncalled for.  I get it; people are angry.  But are they really helping by setting fire to buildings and looting stores?  Yes, the cop was very VERY wrong, and yes the jury was full of ****.  But by striking out in random directions, especially at innocent people, they seem to be doing nothing but turning more people against them.  At least that what it seems to me.

In August, exactly one building got set on fire (a QuikTrip gas station) and 28 businesses reported burglary of some sort, with an estimated total of only about $5 million in damages caused (for comparison, two hailstorms caused about $3.2 billion in damage to St. Louis and the 1992 LA riots caused about $1 billion in damages and 7000 fires started).

The New York Times has reported "at least a dozen" buildings have been set on fire in Ferguson, but I can't find any solid list of what was hit. I do know that at least one police car was set on fire about an hour after the verdict was announced, with witnesses suggesting that a hot burning tear gas grenade fired by the police errantly landed in it. The owner of one car dealership didn't move any of his cars beforehand and supposedly made an insurance claim 2 hours after the fire was set, suggesting that he may have set it on fire himself for the money and hoped to blame it on protesters. Michael Brown Senior's church was set on fire, a typical trademark of the KKK that's quite active in Missouri, as was a charity foundation set up by Antonio French (one of the main protest leaders in the community).

Meanwhile, one person has died. That person is DeAndre Joshua, a friend of Mike Brown and Dorian Johnson (the guy who was with Brown when he was killed). He was found shot in a burned-out car near where Brown died. He was a small-time neighborhood drug dealer (frankly, I don't think anybody should be condemned to murder for selling weed) and conspiracy theorists are going crazy claiming that he was one of the secret pro-Wilson witnesses being executed by the community for snitching.

Say, could you give a source?
It's not that I don't trust you it's just I'd like to have some evidence I could show others.

[Lt. Fred]

Do you think the protests will end up accomplishing jack, fucking, or squat?

Nothing has ever been achieved by an American minority except through force.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Do you think the protests will end up accomplishing jack, fucking, or squat?

Nothing has ever been achieved by an American minority except through force.

Yeah, because MLK was all about force.

[dpareja]

Do you think the protests will end up accomplishing jack, fucking, or squat?

Nothing has ever been achieved by an American minority except through force.

Yeah, because MLK was all about force.

Except that he got a majority to agree with him.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Do you think the protests will end up accomplishing jack, fucking, or squat?

Nothing has ever been achieved by an American minority except through force.

Yeah, because MLK was all about force.

Except that he got a majority to agree with him.

Oh.  Sorry, I didn't quite understand what he meant.

[Lt. Fred]

Do you think the protests will end up accomplishing jack, fucking, or squat?

Nothing has ever been achieved by an American minority except through force.

Yeah, because MLK was all about force.

Sure was. Nonviolent force, sure, but force.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Do you think the protests will end up accomplishing jack, fucking, or squat?

Nothing has ever been achieved by an American minority except through force.

Yeah, because MLK was all about force.

Sure was. Nonviolent force, sure, but force.

Ah, I get you now.

[ironbite]

So the St. Louis Rams did something really cool this Sunday.  They put their hands up.  Then proceeded to murder the Raiders in what I can only describe as one of the biggest one sided games I've seen that didn't include the Washington Redskins.  But of course some people aren't happy.

Of course those people are the cops who are somewhat confused as to what First Amendment rights give you.

In an amazing display of stupid, the SLPOA released a statement condeming the 5 Rams players who came out of the tunnel during introductions with their hands up and demanded the NFL fine them and the Rams release a public apology.

St. Louis, Missouri (November 30, 2014) – The St. Louis Police Officers Association is profoundly disappointed with the members of the St. Louis Rams football team who chose to ignore the mountains of evidence released from the St. Louis County Grand Jury this week and engage in a display that police officers around the nation found tasteless, offensive and inflammatory.
"Five members of the Rams entered the field today exhibiting the "hands-up-don't-shoot" pose that has been adopted by protestors who accused Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson of murdering Michael Brown. The gesture has become synonymous with assertions that Michael Brown was innocent of any wrongdoing and attempting to surrender peacefully when Wilson, according to some now-discredited witnesses, gunned him down in cold blood.
"SLPOA Business Manager Jeff Roorda said, "now that the evidence is in and Officer Wilson's account has been verified by physical and ballistic evidence as well as eye-witness testimony, which led the grand jury to conclude that no probable cause existed that Wilson engaged in any wrongdoing, it is unthinkable that hometown athletes would so publicly perpetuate a narrative that has been disproven over-and-over again."
  "Roorda was incensed that the Rams and the NFL would tolerate such behavior and called it remarkably hypocritical. "All week long, the Rams and the NFL were on the phone with the St. Louis Police Department asking for assurances that the players and the fans would be kept safe from the violent protesters who had rioted, looted, and burned buildings in Ferguson. Our officers have been working 12 hour shifts for over a week, they had days off including Thanksgiving cancelled so that they could defend this community from those on the streets that perpetuate this myth that Michael Brown was executed by a brother police officer and then, as the players and their fans sit safely in their dome under the watchful protection of hundreds of St. Louis's finest, they take to the turf to call a now-exonerated officer a murderer, that is way out-of-bounds, to put it in football parlance," Roorda said.
  "The SLPOA is calling for the players involved to be disciplined and for the Rams and the NFL to deliver a very public apology. Roorda said he planned to speak to the NFL and the Rams to voice his organization's displeasure tomorrow. He also plans to reach out to other police organizations in St. Louis and around the country to enlist their input on what the appropriate response from law enforcement should be. Roorda warned, "I know that there are those that will say that these players are simply exercising their First Amendment rights. Well I've got news for people who think that way, cops have first amendment rights too, and we plan to exercise ours. I'd remind the NFL and their players that it is not the violent thugs burning down buildings that buy their advertiser's products. It's cops and the good people of St. Louis and other NFL towns that do. Somebody needs to throw a flag on this play. If it's not the NFL and the Rams, then it'll be cops and their supporters."

NFL has come out and said the players will not be fined and the Rams came out and said the demonstration was not planned and that's it.

Ironbite-just....amazing the hypocrisy coming from the SLPOA

[I am lizard]

While I agree that the verdict is bull****, I think the rioting in the town is uncalled for.  I get it; people are angry.  But are they really helping by setting fire to buildings and looting stores?  Yes, the cop was very VERY wrong, and yes the jury was full of ****.  But by striking out in random directions, especially at innocent people, they seem to be doing nothing but turning more people against them.  At least that what it seems to me.

In August, exactly one building got set on fire (a QuikTrip gas station) and 28 businesses reported burglary of some sort, with an estimated total of only about $5 million in damages caused (for comparison, two hailstorms caused about $3.2 billion in damage to St. Louis and the 1992 LA riots caused about $1 billion in damages and 7000 fires started).

The New York Times has reported "at least a dozen" buildings have been set on fire in Ferguson, but I can't find any solid list of what was hit. I do know that at least one police car was set on fire about an hour after the verdict was announced, with witnesses suggesting that a hot burning tear gas grenade fired by the police errantly landed in it. The owner of one car dealership didn't move any of his cars beforehand and supposedly made an insurance claim 2 hours after the fire was set, suggesting that he may have set it on fire himself for the money and hoped to blame it on protesters. Michael Brown Senior's church was set on fire, a typical trademark of the KKK that's quite active in Missouri, as was a charity foundation set up by Antonio French (one of the main protest leaders in the community).

Meanwhile, one person has died. That person is DeAndre Joshua, a friend of Mike Brown and Dorian Johnson (the guy who was with Brown when he was killed). He was found shot in a burned-out car near where Brown died. He was a small-time neighborhood drug dealer (frankly, I don't think anybody should be condemned to murder for selling weed) and conspiracy theorists are going crazy claiming that he was one of the secret pro-Wilson witnesses being executed by the community for snitching.

Say, could you give a source?
It's not that I don't trust you it's just I'd like to have some evidence I could show others.

Are you still active? I'd like to be able to link to your source on the amount of actual damage caused by protesters.

[mellenORL]

Lizard, I believe a google search with the terms August riot damage Ferguson might get part of what you want. As to the latest damage, that is so recent it would be in the early stages of investigation and analysis by the state and local LEO's and the many business and property insurance claims adjustors.

[chitoryu12]

Yeah, I just didn't come for a few days. This link includes the estimate of the protest damage from August; obviously it's a bit outdated now. I can say that a Google search will utterly fail to find evidence that any protesters set the fires in November. It's a bit of a conspiracy theory thing right now, but this video shows that the Advanced Auto Parts that was set on fire had no protesters around it and it had actually been totally secured by the police shortly before the fires began. Some people are trying to claim that the footage shows the car they're searching on fire and that a flashbang set it off, but it's really obvious bullshit: the "flames" are a reflection of kinda pinkish light and the sound that's supposedly a flashbang detonating is a distant gunshot or grenade, and anyone who's gone shooting would recognize it. There's also no reaction inside the car, which you'd easily get if a flashbang went off because it fucking says "flash" for a reason guys. What I can definitely say with confidence is that the areas that had fires set were very clearly empty of protesters and swarming with police. The only thing that can definitively be said to have been burned by protesters has been American flags, and fuck yeah for that.

Feds are currently probing the arson of Michael Brown Sr.'s church. The pastor himself blames it on white supremacists and it's pointed out that the church was isolated from the rest of the protests and burning buildings, which indicates that it would have been specifically targeted.

[I am lizard]

The only thing that can definitively be said to have been burned by protesters has been American flags, and fuck yeah for that.

But freeedumsssss!

[ironbite]

The arson of the church is classic KKK intimidation techniques btw.

Ironbite-and there were threats before the riots.

[niam2023]

Apparently, those Oathkeeper nutbars have been patrolling Ferguson now, too, just in case you thought the KKK wasn't a crazy enough hard right group.

You may remember them from Cliven Bundy's farm, being a group of solipsistic, obsessive lunatics who believe the government is out to get their guns.

And as of now, they're apparently patrolling buildings on behest of the owners, who they apparently count as "real Americans". I heavily doubt they'd ever patrol a black store owner's house, personally, given the Oathkeepers' pedigree.

They're not good for this situation - its only a matter of time before one of those ex-soldier loons opens fire on another unarmed black teenager.

[R. U. Sirius]

http://imgur.com/gallery/fpYzl

A veteran weighs in on the police response in Ferguson vs. the response of the National Guard deployed there.