Al Qaeda declares war on ISIS

[Askold]

http://news.yahoo.com/al-qaeda-leader-al-zawahiri-declares-war-isis-151231254--abc-news-topstories.html





And apparently I am not the only one who feels the same:

Olsen said the U.S. could use misinformation to further pit the two jihadi menaces against each other and encourage the series of gunfights and assassinations each has waged against the other -- like when ISIS reportedly killed a top Zawahiri emissary trying to broker a ceasefire between the fighters in Syria in February 2014.

We are going to need a lot more popcorn...

[nickiknack]

That would be beautiful, also I got the butter for that popcorn.

[I am lizard]

I like how everyone is just talking about how fun it will be to see the two fight and kill each other.

Yeah, because there won't be say, retributive killings or torturing of suspected civilian informant or anything.

[Id82]

Good let those assholes fight each other.

[ironbite]

So now the thing they created has turned on them so now they have to fight it.

Ironbite-anyone else see the irony in that?

[VainRobot]

I like how everyone is just talking about how fun it will be to see the two fight and kill each other.

Yeah, because there won't be say, retributive killings or torturing of suspected civilian informant or anything.

Absolutely. This just seems like further escalation and violence that the region does not need any more of. It's easy to dehumanize the Middle-East as just that place where conflict happens, but people LIVE THERE. This is going to result in thousands of innocents being displaced or killed.

When two rival gangs in Chicago fight children die in the crossfire. It's no different in Iraq and Syria. Families are going to be broken and this violence will perpetuate more violence.

[Ultimate Paragon]

I like how everyone is just talking about how fun it will be to see the two fight and kill each other.

Yeah, because there won't be say, retributive killings or torturing of suspected civilian informant or anything.

Absolutely. This just seems like further escalation and violence that the region does not need any more of. It's easy to dehumanize the Middle-East as just that place where conflict happens, but people LIVE THERE. This is going to result in thousands of innocents being displaced or killed.

When two rival gangs in Chicago fight children die in the crossfire. It's no different in Iraq and Syria. Families are going to be broken and this violence will perpetuate more violence.

^This.  The only time I cheer fights between loathsome people is when I know the innocent won't get hurt.  I wouldn't mind Islamic extremists fighting it out on a desert island somewhere, but when innocent people are in danger, I'm not going to celebrate.

[Barbarella]

I like how everyone is just talking about how fun it will be to see the two fight and kill each other.

Yeah, because there won't be say, retributive killings or torturing of suspected civilian informant or anything.

Absolutely. This just seems like further escalation and violence that the region does not need any more of. It's easy to dehumanize the Middle-East as just that place where conflict happens, but people LIVE THERE. This is going to result in thousands of innocents being displaced or killed.

When two rival gangs in Chicago fight children die in the crossfire. It's no different in Iraq and Syria. Families are going to be broken and this violence will perpetuate more violence.

^This.  The only time I cheer fights between loathsome people is when I know the innocent won't get hurt.  I wouldn't mind Islamic extremists fighting it out on a desert island somewhere, but when innocent people are in danger, I'm not going to celebrate.

I was going to get the popcorn until I read your points.

Perhaps in the long run, when all this insanity in the Mid-East is over, I'm certain the idea of IslamoFrummery will loose it's pizzazz and all those weirdos will kill each other off. It happened in Europe so it can happen, there. Sadly, many innocent people will be stick in the crossfire.

  HUUUUUHHHH-BOY! THIS GONNA BE ROUGH. 

[Ultimate Paragon]

I like how everyone is just talking about how fun it will be to see the two fight and kill each other.

Yeah, because there won't be say, retributive killings or torturing of suspected civilian informant or anything.

Absolutely. This just seems like further escalation and violence that the region does not need any more of. It's easy to dehumanize the Middle-East as just that place where conflict happens, but people LIVE THERE. This is going to result in thousands of innocents being displaced or killed.

When two rival gangs in Chicago fight children die in the crossfire. It's no different in Iraq and Syria. Families are going to be broken and this violence will perpetuate more violence.

^This.  The only time I cheer fights between loathsome people is when I know the innocent won't get hurt.  I wouldn't mind Islamic extremists fighting it out on a desert island somewhere, but when innocent people are in danger, I'm not going to celebrate.

I was going to get the popcorn until I read your points.

Perhaps in the long run, when all this insanity in the Mid-East is over, I'm certain the idea of IslamoFrummery will loose it's pizzazz and all those weirdos will kill each other off. It happened in Europe so it can happen, there. Sadly, many innocent people will be stick in the crossfire.

  HUUUUUHHHH-BOY! THIS GONNA BE ROUGH. 

You know, I'm starting to think the Islamic World is going through its own equivalent of the Thirty Years' War.

[Barbarella]

I like how everyone is just talking about how fun it will be to see the two fight and kill each other.

Yeah, because there won't be say, retributive killings or torturing of suspected civilian informant or anything.

Absolutely. This just seems like further escalation and violence that the region does not need any more of. It's easy to dehumanize the Middle-East as just that place where conflict happens, but people LIVE THERE. This is going to result in thousands of innocents being displaced or killed.

When two rival gangs in Chicago fight children die in the crossfire. It's no different in Iraq and Syria. Families are going to be broken and this violence will perpetuate more violence.

^This.  The only time I cheer fights between loathsome people is when I know the innocent won't get hurt.  I wouldn't mind Islamic extremists fighting it out on a desert island somewhere, but when innocent people are in danger, I'm not going to celebrate.

I was going to get the popcorn until I read your points.

Perhaps in the long run, when all this insanity in the Mid-East is over, I'm certain the idea of IslamoFrummery will loose it's pizzazz and all those weirdos will kill each other off. It happened in Europe so it can happen, there. Sadly, many innocent people will be stick in the crossfire.

  HUUUUUHHHH-BOY! THIS GONNA BE ROUGH.

You know, I'm starting to think the Islamic World is going through its own equivalent of the Thirty Years' War.

Eeyup. Thirty Years War, Hundred Years War, The Inquisitions, etc. Europe went through it. Now it's the Mid-East's turn.

Someday, it'll all straighten out. Same holds true for Africa. It can't last forever and, despite the usual setbacks a-plenty, the general path of humanity is towards progress.

[VainRobot]

I'm sure the Middle-East will stabilize eventually, but it's important to note that the current geopolitical state of the region has been the result of decolonization, Cold War politics, and post-Cold War fuckery. Not to mention the US-backed ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Things aren't going to inevitably get better unless NATO and the US change how they approach foreign policy in the region.

[Barbarella]

I'm sure the Middle-East will stabilize eventually, but it's important to note that the current geopolitical state of the region has been the result of decolonization, Cold War politics, and post-Cold War fuckery. Not to mention the US-backed ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Things aren't going to inevitably get better unless NATO and the US change how they approach foreign policy in the region.

Which is why it's vitally important for Americans to vote the wingnuts out!

There are glimmers; The Iran Deal "which the GOP/Tealiban HATES....therefore it must be good". Also, the Obama Administration seems to FINALLY be starting to get tired of Netanyahu.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Eeyup. Thirty Years War, Hundred Years War, The Inquisitions, etc. Europe went through it. Now it's the Mid-East's turn.

Someday, it'll all straighten out. Same holds true for Africa. It can't last forever and, despite the usual setbacks a-plenty, the general path of humanity is towards progress.

Bit of a nitpick, but the Hundred Years' War wasn't really a religious event, aside from Joan of Arc's piously motivated campaign.  As for the various Inquisitions, things were a lot more complicated than the general public believes.

As for Africa, there's already some overall improvement:

http://www.impatientoptimists.org/Posts/2014/07/Africa-is-getting-better#.VfMrhy_lvIU

I'm sure the Middle-East will stabilize eventually, but it's important to note that the current geopolitical state of the region has been the result of decolonization, Cold War politics, and post-Cold War fuckery. Not to mention the US-backed ethnic cleansing in Palestine.

Aside from one minor quibble (the Israeli settlements, though deserving of criticism, aren't "ethnic cleansing"), I agree wholeheartedly.  The problem isn't Islam, it's a series of complex geopolitical factors that created a perfect storm for violence to erupt.  There aren't any vices inherent or exclusive to Muslims, just like with any other religion.

Things aren't going to inevitably get better unless NATO and the US change how they approach foreign policy in the region.

I agree.  Here are some of my suggestions:

1. Back moderates wherever and whenever possible.  Show the Middle East that radical Islamism ain't the only answer.  If we'd backed the anti-Taliban coalition in the Afghan Civil War, there might not have been a 9/11.

2. Take in refugees, and be fair but firm with them.  Protect them from harassment, make them feel welcome, but if they commit felonies, send them back.  Those who violate hospitality don't deserve asylum.

3. Make some kind of compromise with Israel.  Offer them something in exchange for dismantling the settlements.  All of a sudden, you'll see Palestinians shouting "Death to extremists!  Long live America!"  Moreover, the radicals would lose a major recruiting tool.

4. Try to avoid putting boots on the ground.  It's been demonstrated many times that you can topple tyrants without outright invading them.

[Barbarella]

Eeyup. Thirty Years War, Hundred Years War, The Inquisitions, etc. Europe went through it. Now it's the Mid-East's turn.

Someday, it'll all straighten out. Same holds true for Africa. It can't last forever and, despite the usual setbacks a-plenty, the general path of humanity is towards progress.

Bit of a nitpick, but the Hundred Years' War wasn't really a religious event, aside from Joan of Arc's piously motivated campaign.  As for the various Inquisitions, things were a lot more complicated than the general public believes.

As for Africa, there's already some overall improvement:

http://www.impatientoptimists.org/Posts/2014/07/Africa-is-getting-better#.VfMrhy_lvIU

I'm sure the Middle-East will stabilize eventually, but it's important to note that the current geopolitical state of the region has been the result of decolonization, Cold War politics, and post-Cold War fuckery. Not to mention the US-backed ethnic cleansing in Palestine.

Aside from one minor quibble (the Israeli settlements, though deserving of criticism, aren't "ethnic cleansing"), I agree wholeheartedly.  The problem isn't Islam, it's a series of complex geopolitical factors that created a perfect storm for violence to erupt.  There aren't any vices inherent or exclusive to Muslims, just like with any other religion.

Things aren't going to inevitably get better unless NATO and the US change how they approach foreign policy in the region.

I agree.  Here are some of my suggestions:

1. Back moderates wherever and whenever possible.  Show the Middle East that radical Islamism ain't the only answer.  If we'd backed the anti-Taliban coalition in the Afghan Civil War, there might not have been a 9/11.

2. Take in refugees, and be fair but firm with them.  Protect them from harassment, make them feel welcome, but if they commit felonies, send them back.  Those who violate hospitality don't deserve asylum.

3. Make some kind of compromise with Israel.  Offer them something in exchange for dismantling the settlements.  All of a sudden, you'll see Palestinians shouting "Death to extremists!  Long live America!"  Moreover, the radicals would lose a major recruiting tool.

4. Try to avoid putting boots on the ground.  It's been demonstrated many times that you can topple tyrants without outright invading them.

Great ideas!

[Lt. Fred]

Aside from one minor quibble (the Israeli settlements, though deserving of criticism, aren't "ethnic cleansing"),

Depends what you mean by ethnic cleansing. It's a term from Yugoslavia, it basically means forcible population transfer. That is certainly Israel's policy regarding the Palestinians in Jewish Jerusalem, and indeed is probably policy in most of Palestine.

I agree.  Here are some of my suggestions:

1. Back moderates wherever and whenever possible.  Show the Middle East that radical Islamism ain't the only answer.  If we'd backed the anti-Taliban coalition in the Afghan Civil War, there might not have been a 9/11.

Better solution: stay out. If the US hadn't backed the Taliban into the 90s in the Civil War until they won they wouldn't have. I'm sure it's possible for the US to do good, I'm just not convinced the political system will ever allow a president to.

2. Take in refugees, and be fair but firm with them.  Protect them from harassment, make them feel welcome, but if they commit felonies, send them back.  Those who violate hospitality don't deserve asylum.

I don't think there's any need to make concessions to racists. The answer is just treat refugees right and any American who doesn't want to gets deported to Congo to find out how he likes it.

3. Make some kind of compromise with Israel.  Offer them something in exchange for dismantling the settlements.

This is essentially the strategy of the BDS movement, yes.

4. Try to avoid putting boots on the ground.  It's been demonstrated many times that you can topple tyrants without outright invading them.

Chiefly by letting enough alone.