Author Topic: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything  (Read 44417 times)

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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 11:16:35 pm »
Think about it this way: If, in some alternate universe, the Aztec Empire has conquered most of the world's territory, causing the Aztecs become the dominant group in society and begin oppressing other races and creating a system of institutionalized racism that favored their own group, then in that society only Aztec people could be racist.
Except not. Racism is an ideal where your race is superior or more deserving of wealth and power than any others. That's what it actually means, no matter how hard Tumblr tries to redefine it. So yes, if in your scenario a non-Aztec decided that they hate all people of Aztec origin rather than the society they implemented, then yes, it's racism.

I've already explained to you that critical race theory uses a different definition of racism than is used in common language. (Also, not to be Captain Obvious or anything, but prejudice is a part of racism. A society completely without any prejudices or bigotry whatsoever is incapable of having a racist group.) It's like the difference between "theory" in a scientific context and "theory" in common usage. It's not arbitrary redefinition, it's a term coined from observation.
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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2012, 11:23:01 pm »
If I disagree with it, there's nothing that I can do to force the other person to stop. Even if I could, I probably wouldn't. But I can inform them about why what they are doing is harmful, and hopefully they will be receptive and realize that it isn't a good thing to do.

There's nothing I can do to force people to stop wearing "Chinese" Halloween costumes, but if I see someone wearing one or contemplating wearing one, I can tell them why I think it's a wrong thing to do.
I suppose I should've been clearer. My problem isn't that I think social justice bloggers are trying to force people to conform to their standards, it's that their standards come about through subjective reasoning (culture is sacred and needs to be respected) and patently false logic (Halloween costumes and hipsters enforce the idea that it's ok to objectify Native American women) and they believe that everyone should follow the same standards via the same faulty reasoning.
And the redefinition is not "arbitrary." It's an accepted definition in critical race theory.
Yeah, it's arbitrary, no matter who came up with it.

Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 11:25:52 pm »
Yeah, it's arbitrary, no matter who came up with it.

By that standard all definitions are arbitrary.

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 11:36:32 pm »
Yeah, it's arbitrary, no matter who came up with it.

By that standard all definitions are arbitrary.

Pretty much. In fact, quite a few of them, like 'racism: Tumblr edition', also have fuck all merits to them.

Offline Radiation

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 11:41:19 pm »
I have a question,

Some of this discussion is about "culture appropriation." Some of you feel it is wrong is what I am getting.

So my question is: Do you think that I am being wrong for wearing African dresses, necklaces and outfits at times (which I get at an African specialty store run by a woman from Sierra Leone)? Am I appropriating on the Western African culture by wearing these outfits?

Ok that was two questions, still I want to know.
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Offline Fpqxz

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2012, 11:50:10 pm »
And the redefinition is not "arbitrary." It's an accepted definition in critical race theory.

>wellthere'syourproblem.jpg

Why simply accept that the critical race theory interpretation of racism (or any other social problem) is true and the others false?  Why elevate their explanation above others?

CRT is based on postmodernism which most serious academics, including Noam Chomsky (for whom I have a great deal of respect) thinks is bogus.
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2012, 11:58:23 pm »
And the redefinition is not "arbitrary." It's an accepted definition in critical race theory.

>wellthere'syourproblem.jpg

Why simply accept that the critical race theory interpretation of racism (or any other social problem) is true and the others false?  Why elevate their explanation above others?

I consider it to be a valid definition of racism because it can observed in societies. I don't "raise it above others" except when using it in a social justice context.

CRT is based on postmodernism which most serious academics,

Argumentum ad populum, appeal to authority, and citation needed.

including Noam Chomsky (for whom I have a great deal of respect) thinks is bogus.

Appeal to authority and association fallacy/ad hominem. I love Noam Chomsky as a linguist, but I don't give two fucks what his opinion on anything else is.
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Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 12:25:58 am »
Regardless of whether it's accepted in some academic circles, I've yet to see a compelling argument for why it's necessary to alter the definition of racism (and "power plus prejudice" is a fairly recent alteration of the original and still widely-accepted definition of the word). We already have terms to differentiate between its various forms, (internalized, systematic, institutional/ingrained, casual, etc.), so the "there needs to be a different term!" argument really doesn't wash.

And, quite frankly, I might be a little less skeptical of this definition if it wasn't used almost exclusively as a red herring when someone is called out on their bigotry and hypocrisy.

Edit: Also, I do realize language changes over time, but we're talking about a forced redefinition here -- and one that has some pretty drastic implications, at that.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 12:47:55 am by Mlle Antéchrist »
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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2012, 12:32:22 am »
I have a question,

Some of this discussion is about "culture appropriation." Some of you feel it is wrong is what I am getting.

So my question is: Do you think that I am being wrong for wearing African dresses, necklaces and outfits at times (which I get at an African specialty store run by a woman from Sierra Leone)? Am I appropriating on the Western African culture by wearing these outfits?

Ok that was two questions, still I want to know.

It depends on context. It doesn't have any spiritual significance, so that's out, and it's not perpetuating a stereotype, so that's out. I'm not sure how important clothing is to West African people so if there is some sort of deeper part to it then it would be. I know some people would consider it appropriation but those people, I think, would be considered extremists.

Offline Fpqxz

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2012, 12:38:07 am »
Argumentum ad populum, appeal to authority, and citation needed.

I gave you a citation, and it's not argumentum ad populum or appeal to authority if you are dealing with non-empirical subjects (such as philosophy, as we are doing here).

PROTIP: misapplying/throwing around Latin terms does not make you sound smarter.

I love Noam Chomsky as a linguist, but I don't give two fucks what his opinion on anything else is.

You do realize that Chomsky's expertise extends far beyond linguistics, right?  And as far as "association fallacy" is concerned, you clearly didn't bother reading the link I gave you...
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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2012, 01:51:17 am »
This thread is getting derailed. Can we go back to the topic, please?

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2012, 01:53:38 am »
If it's unclear, I was asking why it's necessary to redefine the term, which seems to be in line with the thread topic (being that this redefinition is common on Tumblr).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 01:55:23 am by Mlle Antéchrist »
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Offline Fpqxz

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2012, 02:03:59 am »
This thread is getting derailed. Can we go back to the topic, please?

Questioning the underlying assumptions of an ideology is hardly a "derail".
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Step down Mr. and Mrs. Politically Correct.
It's so easy to be "punk" and "aware" living at home.
You can't change shit, you're too self-righteous;
you're the bigots you flaunt to loathe.
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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2012, 02:04:55 am »
This thread is getting derailed. Can we go back to the topic, please?
How so? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original purpose of the thread to try and prove that the Tumblr social justice scene isn't as batshit insane as we all seem to think? If that is indeed what you're trying to achieve, then justifying opinions that are commonplace on Tumblr as at least understandable, if not reasonable or logical, is pretty necessary if you want any hope of success.

Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Tumblr: Ask Me Anything
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 02:16:22 am »
This thread is getting derailed. Can we go back to the topic, please?

Questioning the underlying assumptions of an ideology is hardly a "derail".

This thread is getting derailed. Can we go back to the topic, please?
How so? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original purpose of the thread to try and prove that the Tumblr social justice scene isn't as batshit insane as we all seem to think? If that is indeed what you're trying to achieve, then justifying opinions that are commonplace on Tumblr as at least understandable, if not reasonable or logical, is pretty necessary if you want any hope of success.

Smurfette, Zachski, and I have already answered your questions. Multiple times. The fact that you are stubbornly incapable of even understanding those answers and instead continue to set up completely irrelevant strawmen is not our problem.
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