Author Topic: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases  (Read 11951 times)

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Offline The Illusive Man

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Offline ironbite

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2013, 02:46:17 am »
Sill TIM....don't you know that doesn't mean the gays?

Offline erictheblue

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2013, 07:40:20 am »
After reading about yesterday's arguments, I really think the Court will "punt" on Prop 8 by saying the plaintiff's don't have standing.

Has anyone made a running count of how people forgot about the 14th amendment to the constitution?

Discriminatory policies can be constitutional if it fits within the standards. There's 3 standards - strict scrutiny, intermediate/heightened scrutiny, and rational basis. With the first two, the policy is considered unconstitutional unless the government can show there is a compelling (strict) or important (intermediate) government interest and the policy furthers that interest. Under rational basis, a policy is considered constitutional unless the people bringing the suit can show there is no rational reason for the policy. That is a VERY low standard, so policies challenged under a rational basis are usually upheld.

There's only a short list of issues that qualify for strict or intermediate scrutiny - race, nationality, gender are the 3 most common ones. Sexual orientation has not yet been qualified for either of those levels, which means policies that discriminate based on sexual orientation are reviewed under a rational basis. (There is some language in Lawrence v. Texas that indicates intermediate scrutiny, but it's very vague.)

All of that said, one of the justices (can't remember which one. Sotomayor I think) asked the lawyer arguing for Prop 8 if he had a rational reason for the policy and he said no. So clearly, Prop 8 fails even rational basis.



I'm actually more interested in how today's DOMA arguments go. Prop 8 was an outside shot to get same-sex marriage legalized nationwide. If DOMA goes down, however, that opens the door to a clear shot - a la Loving v. Virginia.
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Offline Askold

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2013, 07:51:08 am »
Quote
JUSTICE SCALIA: When did it become unconstitutional to ban same-sex marriage? Was it 1791? 1868?

TED OLSON: When did it become unconstitutional to ban interracial marriage?

JUSTICE SCALIA: Don’t try to answer my question with your own question.

 

Update: To be fair to Scalia, here was his full answer: “It’s an easy question, I think, for that one. At — at the time that the Equal Protection Clause was adopted. That’s absolutely true. But don’t give me a question to my question.”

Let me get this straight: The constitution has something to the tune of "all men are created equal" but unless you make a specific clause for each group or situation... discrimination is ok?
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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2013, 08:02:01 am »

Offline Askold

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2013, 08:40:26 am »
No, just disappointed.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2013, 08:50:12 am »
Scalia is the original intent poster boy after all.

Of course he's also an old white landowning male, so what's he got to lose?

Offline Julian

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2013, 09:29:48 am »
Nate Silver on Same-sex marriage statistics. I really want to keep this man all for myself, and he can be a great gambling partner.
Gotta say, it's a good link, but I'm a tad disturbed (logically) that the red states most vehemently opposed to recognisig same sex unions, and providing equal rights, are also those which are more likely to condone bestiality...



So where does that whole slippery slope argument come from exactly? Heck in those states, the best angle of attack might be to legalize marrying your pig, and see if it can extend over time to human beings...

Offline Julian

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2013, 09:32:20 am »
Quote
JUSTICE SCALIA: When did it become unconstitutional to ban same-sex marriage? Was it 1791? 1868?

TED OLSON: When did it become unconstitutional to ban interracial marriage?

JUSTICE SCALIA: Don’t try to answer my question with your own question.

 

Update: To be fair to Scalia, here was his full answer: “It’s an easy question, I think, for that one. At — at the time that the Equal Protection Clause was adopted. That’s absolutely true. But don’t give me a question to my question.”

Let me get this straight: The constitution has something to the tune of "all men are created equal" but unless you make a specific clause for each group or situation... discrimination is ok?
*cough* 3/5ths and even that was only a proxy grab for power... *cough*

(needless to say discrimination in this case is not OK. Or the other one.)

Offline Julian

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2013, 09:39:59 am »
Talk about a sucker for punishment. Cooper's being bitchslapped around the ring like a chewtoy in a piranha tank. The State of California hasn't even had to turn up yet...

Nice to see Verrilli's not mucking around either. Late to the party, but about time this sort of clarity started being bandied around.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/26/supreme-court-gay-marriage-hearing

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2013, 11:37:14 am »
Here are some live Tweets from the Windsor oral arguments.

Offline ThunderWulf

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2013, 11:55:33 am »
Some handy numbers: http://news.msn.com/politics/gay-marriage-by-the-numbers

I'm hoping for the best here, but I really can't get over how ridiculous this entire situation is. The fact that we're still fighting for equality, and that so many people are still against it. I know their reasoning, but it's ludicrous.

A thousand times this.

The fact that gay marriage and gay rights is still even an ISSUE is depressing.
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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2013, 12:07:37 pm »
Some handy numbers: http://news.msn.com/politics/gay-marriage-by-the-numbers

I'm hoping for the best here, but I really can't get over how ridiculous this entire situation is. The fact that we're still fighting for equality, and that so many people are still against it. I know their reasoning, but it's ludicrous.

A thousand times this.

The fact that gay marriage and gay rights is still even an ISSUE is depressing.
Hell even in the land of cheese-eating surrender monkeys* not everyone is on board with the idea of gays and lesbians being human beings who deserve the same rights as heterosexuals.






*I'm French and therefore I can say that. I'm pretty sure that's how that works.

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2013, 12:14:20 pm »
The Supreme Court is hinting that it is likely to strike down the Defense of Marriage Act. Four justices see this as a gay rights issue while Kennedy is voicing federalism concerns.

Offline Dynamic Dragon

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Re: SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2013, 12:52:14 pm »
Some handy numbers: http://news.msn.com/politics/gay-marriage-by-the-numbers

I'm hoping for the best here, but I really can't get over how ridiculous this entire situation is. The fact that we're still fighting for equality, and that so many people are still against it. I know their reasoning, but it's ludicrous.

A thousand times this.

The fact that gay marriage and gay rights is still even an ISSUE is depressing.
Hell even in the land of cheese-eating surrender monkeys* not everyone is on board with the idea of gays and lesbians being human beings who deserve the same rights as heterosexuals.






*I'm French and therefore I can say that. I'm pretty sure that's how that works.

Let's not forget how the population of California, by popular vote, banned homosexual marriage in their state.
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