FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: KZN02 on August 08, 2013, 10:57:25 pm
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I recall in my history course during Medieval Times a religious group tried to get the Bible translated so anyone literate could read it without needing to go to church to listen.
Now in modern times, we have unscrupulous people cherry-picking certain passages and people who don't bother reading the entire bible and realize the problems inside. Kind of makes you wonder what was the point after all those centuries before.
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
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The move to translate the Bible started as a way to bring it to the masses, without the need of an intermediary (priest) of some sort. Naturally, it was opposed by the church/clergy, since fewer people were likely to go to church and tithe, and/or heed their commands, if they were able to read "God's Word" on their own.
Now, it doesn't matter, since nobody bothers to read the fuckin' book anyways. Not that I blame them; it's the most boring thing I've ever tried to read.
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation. Which makes me wonder why an all-powerful god would want to be associated with a book that was apparently published with its parts in the wrong order and is too complicated for the majority of his creations to understand.
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation. Which makes me wonder why an all-powerful god would want to be associated with a book that was apparently published with its parts in the wrong order and is too complicated for the majority of his creations to understand.
I guess the clergy found a way around everyone being able to read the Bible after all.
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I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation.
Well they can't very well have you form your own opinions now, can they? That's the priests' job, didn't you know?
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I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation.
Well they can't very well have you form your own opinions now, can they? That's the priests' job, didn't you know?
I don't understand why you would need assistance interpreting something that was written by a omniscient being.
Shouldn't everyone just have a eureka moment as soon as they read it?
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I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation.
Well they can't very well have you form your own opinions now, can they? That's the priests' job, didn't you know?
I don't understand why you would need assistance interpreting something that was written by a omniscient being.
Shouldn't everyone just have a eureka moment as soon as they read it?
Pssh, that would make too much sense.
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Nah, everyone knows God only speaks ancient Hebrew. All other languages are of the devil.
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I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation.
Well they can't very well have you form your own opinions now, can they? That's the priests' job, didn't you know?
I don't understand why you would need assistance interpreting something that was written by a omniscient being.
Shouldn't everyone just have a eureka moment as soon as they read it?
Even thought the bible is an attempt to write down divine inspiration it was written down by mortal humans and therefore may have failings.
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As my great grandfather so eloquently put it nearly 50 years ago: "A man can put pen to paper and make that paper say anything he wants; it doesn't mean that its true."
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I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation.
Judaism takes a rather different approach. It's more along the lines of "just reading the Bible itself is insufficient". You're also supposed to read the Talmud, and the rabbis' commentaries (which are constantly in disagreement). And the best way to do it is with a chevruta (study buddy), so the two of you can discuss what you've just read.
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
a) The Bible is an astoundingly boring read.
b) People are lazy.
c) People who believe the bible is the key to salvation, also tend to think that they are already saved by virtue of believing in Christ the specific correct way, so no need to read the book.
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THIS WILL BE A VERY LONG POST & MAY EXPRESS SOME IDEAS THAT SOME MAY FIND STUPID. PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. THANK YOU.
What everyone, be they believer or non-believer, don't realize is that the Bible is not one book nor is it really meant to be treated as such. The Bible is actually a compilation, an anthology of a bunch of totally separate books written by different authors at different times. These books express different & often opposing viewpoints and are also in different literary genres. None of these books should be regarded as equal authority or validity. Some books are mostly good, some mostly demiurgic garbage, some a mix of both.
This fact, that the Bible is a collection of different separate books of varying genres & quality would actually explain much of the contradictions & stupidity within. You have good spiritual & ethical teachings & truths for the purpose of enriching souls mixed with demiurgic, man-made trash for the purpose to create fear & hate control the masses. If people were aware that the Bible's not one book, they would freely 86 the latter crapola & keep the good stuff (or vice-versa if they're evil fundie freaks).
As much as we laugh at Hovind, I frankly believe that it wouldn't be too over-the top a concept to edit the Bible. That said, Hovind's doing it all wrong and for purely selfish, demiurgic reasons.
My system would be to excise the more brutal books & clarify passages that are poorly translated, like the supposed "anti-homosexuality" verses, which were really verses against the practice of temple prostitution & pedastry. In the New Testament, the spurious Pauline epistles would be excised but the legit ones actually written by Paul would be left in. Verses of spurious origin that were added in later would also be removed. With spurious epistles & passages removed, Paul will should more like a good guy who's pretty much in agreement with Jesus.
Concerning the Quran, The Hadith and Islamic Scriptures...some of the Hadith was written long after Mohammed's death and parts may be totally fabricated. Likewise all the verses written in Medina should be excised from the Quran. The Mecca verses are canonical and actually quite good and written by a guy who's a spiritual seer whereas the Medina verses are written by an angry warlord guy corrupted by power & desperation who needed an excuse to give in to his dark side.
In the long run, however, the idea of scriptures as a spiritual necessity is stupid. It's all human-made & culture-specific nonsense. There may be some valid & divine truths in it but in the long run, they should be regarded the same way as Aseop's Fables, Fairy Tales & various works of Pagan Mythology...fiction meant to express some sort of higher truth while at the same time subject to change based on sensibilities knowledge & time periods.
I'd say...rewrite the Bible completely. Still keep it true to the original in many ways but present a Deity WORTHY of worship (an androgynous noble being who isn't a 'Big Joseph Stalin In The Sky'). Also, many events in the Bible never happened and many events should be rewritten to reflect archeological facts.
For example, the New Take On EXODUS!:
* The Hebrews were voluntary workers for Pharaoh.
* There was some sort of labor dispute & Pharaoh was acting like a corrupt executive.
* Moses, or perhaps, renamed Thutmose, formerly part of Egypt's court and a Hebrew, with Deity's guidance, does negotiations.
* Thutmose foretells a series of natural disasters which may have inspired the "plagues" story. A chain reaction involving red tide glop in the Nile, drought, bugs, frogs, famine, disease (all the result of the former but not directly CAUSED by Thutmose or HaShem. HaShem just relays the future to Thutmose & Thutmose warns the Egyptians & Hebrews about it).
* Pharaoh thinks Thutmose's prediction is malarkey and orders everyone back to work (HaShem doesn't harden his heart, Pharaoh's simply being a jerk on his own).
* The disasters strike with predictable results, though the scale is not as vast or cataclysmic as the Bible would make it and probably not something ancient Egyptians would chisel into every monument around. HaShem tells the people to paint lamb's blood on the doorposts as a sort of protection charm, which works. Pharaoh, after his firstborn son dies, tells the Hebrews "Alright! Go!".
* They cross the REED Sea in the upper part during a dry period. The sojourn is only takes a few years. The Manna is goo coming from a type of plant.....
....and so on, if you get my drift.......
Hey! If the Rastas can crank out The Holy Piby (their rewrite of the Bible with stories of then-contemporary black figures & bits of The Kebra Negast thrown in) with little ridicule, why not anyone else?
Again, I think scriptures are hot air. I think it's ludicrous for anyone to think they can put the unknowable in a book. However, some folk still need their specific faiths & traditions. For those folks, it's best to present rewrites of various scriptures that clear up a lot of stuff, remove contradictions and present a genuinely just loving & good divine power while encouraging the BEST of humanity. Just start everything from square one!
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One encounters greater excitement and a more diverse cast of characters in the Manhattan Phone Book.
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I'll just leave this here: at least Bella Cullen didn't commit genocide.
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
I've actually talked to people who said that reading the Bible cover-to-cover in order was actually the WRONG WAY to do it, particularly if you didn't have a priest or pastor to "assist" in your interpretation. Which makes me wonder why an all-powerful god would want to be associated with a book that was apparently published with its parts in the wrong order and is too complicated for the majority of his creations to understand.
Probably that "God speaks through others" bullshit. Excuses like that make it so obvious that their religion is a giant scam.
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This is why I'm an eclectic NeoPagan. As far a religion is concerned, it makes most sense. It supports equality, LGBTs, sex & pleasure, science, nature, etc. and it doesn't required big structured organizations.
That said, as far as the scientific nature of reality, what the Eastern faiths teach is very plausible. If you strip away the moralistic & cultural stuff you actually have a lot a good stuff in line with science, medicine, quantum physics, philosophy, etc.
Come to think of it, much of today's NeoPaganism seems to have absorbed Eastern stuff.
In my ideal world, everyone would be either NeoPagan, Deist, Atheist, Agnostic, Non-Religious Spirituality, Pantheist (in other words, no organized religion or dogmas).
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When it comes down to it, Christianity is a depressing faith. We're all sinners destined for hell unless we call out to Jesus. Where's the hope in that?
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When it comes down to it, Christianity is a depressing faith. We're all sinners destined for hell unless we call out to Jesus. Where's the hope in that?
The hope that you'll be a good little sheep, and follow your shepard. 9.9
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
They're lazy, Art. Really, people won't read anything more complex than a picture book these days.
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When it comes down to it, Christianity is a depressing faith. We're all sinners destined for hell unless we call out to Jesus. Where's the hope in that?
Eternal damnation is one of my least favorite things about Christianity. I much prefer the Jewish afterlife:
1. Die.
2. Go to Gehenna.
3. Suffer in proportion to your sins.
4. Go to Heaven.
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When it comes down to it, Christianity is a depressing faith. We're all sinners destined for hell unless we call out to Jesus. Where's the hope in that?
Eternal damnation is one of my least favorite things about Christianity. I much prefer the Jewish afterlife:
1. Die.
2. Go to Gehenna.
3. Suffer in proportion to your sins.
4. Go to Heaven.
I think that used to be part of the christian belief as well. At some point it turned from purgatory to eternal damnation. Well at least in some versions of christianity, I've heard a lutheran priest talk about purgatory in the original way it was. He also believed that all "unbelievers and heretics" will also reach heaven in time.
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
They're lazy, Art. Really, people won't read anything more complex than a picture book these days.
On the contrary. The success of Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey proves that even the most brain dead morons are capable of reading large books.
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When it comes down to it, Christianity is a depressing faith. We're all sinners destined for hell unless we call out to Jesus. Where's the hope in that?
Eternal damnation is one of my least favorite things about Christianity. I much prefer the Jewish afterlife:
1. Die.
2. Go to Gehenna.
3. Suffer in proportion to your sins.
4. Go to Heaven.
Sounds kinda like the afterlife I thought up for my game. Basically, when you die, you either go to one of three places: Heaven (for the REALLY good), Hell (for the REALLY evil), or Elysium (for everyone else). Most regular folks go to Elysium; its a nice place to be, you're never hungry, don't need to sleep or drink, there's no pain, its like a nicer version of the game world itself. Every afterlife has a maximum stay of 1,000 years, and after that, your spirit's turned back into the primordial life energy from whence it came, and is for lack of a better term, recycled into other living beings.
Homicidal maniacs like Hitler or Stalin would go to Hell for a millennium, but really good folks like Bill Gates would be in Heaven for a good, long time, too. Also introduces a nice balance between being born an entirely new being, and the concept of reincarnation. Once you're recycled, all your memories, abilities, and personality are effectively erased, but your most basic essence remains.
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I prefer universal reconciliation as well. It makes most sense.
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It has always struck me as odd that people who claim to believe that the Bible is the word of an all powerful god and the key to not being tortured for all eternity never actually read it. They'll read small snippets of it at the behest of their priest or bible study group, but they'll never actually read the whole thing cover to cover. I've never understood why that is, personally.
They're lazy, Art. Really, people won't read anything more complex than a picture book these days.
On the contrary. The success of Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey proves that even the most brain dead morons are capable of reading large books.
True, but those are easier to read.