Gun Control

[Stormwarden]

Wyvern:

First thing's first:

So people like me, Damen, and Rookie are Rambo-wannabe gun humpers to you? Seriously? *burns the strawman*

Your argument's been addressed earlier in the thread. Most of the guns they're looking to ban aren't even used in most crimes. And by-the-by, stop acting like some pro-life group trying to stop someone from going into a Planned Parenthood. I'm no more keen on kids getting killed than you are, but I'm not gonna stand there being compared to some murderous slimeball just because someone decided to get on their high horse.

[wyvern999]

Wyvern:

First thing's first:

So people like me, Damen, and Rookie are Rambo-wannabe gun humpers to you? Seriously? *burns the strawman*

Your argument's been addressed earlier in the thread. Most of the guns they're looking to ban aren't even used in most crimes. And by-the-by, stop acting like some pro-life group trying to stop someone from going into a Planned Parenthood. I'm no more keen on kids getting killed than you are, but I'm not gonna stand there being compared to some murderous slimeball just because someone decided to get on their high horse.

I see. How many shooters have you got in your little arsenal then? Another question. You have any children?

[Canadian Mojo]

So people like me, Damen, and Rookie are Rambo-wannabe gun humpers to you? Seriously? *burns the strawman*

You're leaving me out? 

I probably own more guns than you do.

Peaceful, gentile Canada, 13th in the world for guns per capita. 

[Stormwarden]

Canadian Mojo: DAMN, sorry, my bad, man. And I believe you on owning more guns than I do. Nothing wrong with that!

No kids, and only three, a .22 rimfire for varmints, 20-gauge shotgun (given to me by my dad), and a 9mm Ruger. I keep them all locked up and unloaded when not in use. I also plan to get my concealed-carry permit AND a .454 revolver or an M1911A1 as soon as possible. There's been bears, coyotes, and mountain lions sighted around the farm, and I'm seeing the pawprints to prove it. And a bear will just laugh off 9mms. Here's hoping I'll never have to use a gun in my own defense or the defense of others.

And before you handwave me for not having kids, I DO have two nephews and a niece. Not that such is any business of yours. When people try to hide behind kids as a reason for their bad behavior, I take it poorly. I treat the pro-life groups with contempt (my view on them is "I don't negotiate with terrorists", but that's another thread). And if I did have kids, I'd make DAMN sure they knew those guns weren't toys, and that they got properly educated in what they can do only AFTER learning gun safety. I do the same for my nephews and niece.

I mainly use my firearms to hunt. Thankfully, as of yet, I've had no reason to use one in defense of any cows on the farm, but the coyotes and bears have been getting bolder, and that's a cause for concern.

[Canadian Mojo]

Canadian Mojo: DAMN, sorry, my bad, man. And I believe you on owning more guns than I do. Nothing wrong with that!

No kids, and only three, a .22 rimfire for varmints, 20-gauge shotgun (given to me by my dad), and a 9mm Ruger. I keep them all locked up and unloaded when not in use. I also plan to get my concealed-carry permit AND a .454 revolver or an M1911A1 as soon as possible. There's been bears, coyotes, and mountain lions sighted around the farm, and I'm seeing the pawprints to prove it. And a bear will just laugh off 9mms. Here's hoping I'll never have to use a gun in my own defense or the defense of others.

And before you handwave me for not having kids, I DO have two nephews and a niece. Not that such is any business of yours. When people try to hide behind kids as a reason for their bad behavior, I take it poorly. I treat the pro-life groups with contempt (my view on them is "I don't negotiate with terrorists", but that's another thread). And if I did have kids, I'd make DAMN sure they knew those guns weren't toys, and that they got properly educated in what they can do only AFTER learning gun safety. I do the same for my nephews and niece.

I mainly use my firearms to hunt. Thankfully, as of yet, I've had no reason to use one in defense of any cows on the farm, but the coyotes and bears have been getting bolder, and that's a cause for concern.

That's okay, nobody suspects us Canadians. 

I've got an old school collection; an old Stevens 12 gauge side-by-side double that was my dad's, a 22lr plinking rifle (the most modern gun in the collection and I bought it over 20 years ago), and four Mausers - Swedish, Yugoslavian, WWI German, and Brazilian. The collection would undoubtedly be larger but my priorities, both financial and in terms of free time changed.

[Damen]

Wrong.

It's amusing that you think I'm wrong, it really is.

You don't think a .22 is as lethal as any other bullet? This guy conducted a wee little experiment and found he was able to put .22LR rounds through a target turkey wrapped in three layers of clothing at 250 yards. And here's a video of a .22LR at 25 yards going through carpet, a 1 inch wood plank and a 1 gallon jug of water. But you want more proof that the .22LR is just as deadly as a .223? One of the pistols used by Seung-Hui Cho when he committed the Virginia Tech massacre was a Walther P22; a pistol chambered in .22LR.

So no, I'm not wrong. A .22LR will kill you just as dead as a .223 and will do it with zero recoil to allow for an even faster follow-up shot than you'd get with a .223. To say otherwise is a sign of ignorance.

There is a reason the AR-15 is modeled after the M-16, and why that gun is used by the military.  It is not that is looks scary as Canadian Mojo pointed out, but that it is a weapon that is very very good a hitting multiple targets pretty quickly.  That is exactly why it is used by police forces and for competition shooters.  It is also why it is a good gun for some nut job to use and shoot up a school.

Here's something else that I find amusing; no one has been calling to ban the Ruger Mini-14 or called it an "assault weapon" or complained about how it's "designed to kill as many people in as short amount of time as possible" when every single argument against the AR-15 can be used against the Mini-14. The Mini-14 is chambered in .223, it takes detachable box magazines, it has very little recoil to allow for rapid follow-up shots, it's light weight and it was designed off of the military's M14 battle rifle. But no one was scared of it because it has wood furniture instead of plastic and had a half-grip instead of a pistol grip.

In fact, when the Assault Weapons Ban was the law of the land, the Mini-14 was able to skirt a lot of the provisions in that law. And in many ways it can be more dangerous than the AR-15 because of the way the bolt is designed you can completely remove the stock and add a pistol grip and make the rifle much, much shorter (and thus more concealable) than you can with an AR-15.

I really don't care how many people use it safely each year.  Weapons such as this should not be in the hands of civilians.  It holds to many round, it is to portable and simply to easy for some to use in this sort of thing.

The AR-15 is no more dangerous than any other rifle chambered in that caliber or even a .22LR, no matter how much you wish otherwise. This includes the Mini-14 and the whole host of bolt-action and other semi-auto rifles that are out there. The gun isn't the dangerous part, it's the bullet.

[Witchyjoshy]

To put things into perspective: I own a slingshot.  More specifically, a "wrist rocket"

Not one of those dinky little toy ones, this one is designed for the hunting of small game.  And I believe it'd be very effective at it, too. I use it for target practice to improve my hand eye coordination.

I imagine it'd also be able to seriously injure any human being should I be foolish enough to use it in such a manner.
Should we ban all slingshots now, simply because of what some of them might do?

[Damen]

To put things into perspective: I own a slingshot.  More specifically, a "wrist rocket"

Not one of those dinky little toy ones, this one is designed for the hunting of small game.  And I believe it'd be very effective at it, too. I use it for target practice to improve my hand eye coordination.

I imagine it'd also be able to seriously injure any human being should I be foolish enough to use it in such a manner.
Should we ban all slingshots now, simply because of what some of them might do?

That's actually a fair comparison considering slingshots were developed as hunting tools and have been used in ancient wars. They can kill a person quite dead.

[SpaceProg]

Another thing about the .22, they also tend to bounce around inside the body if they hit bone, causing more organ damage than a stronger projectile would if it just went in-out.  A fact I made sure I was very mindful of when target shooting and plinking with a .22 rifle.

The mention of coyotes got me thinking, though... We didn't used to have very many, if any, in my neck of the woods, now I can hear them yip-yapping and howling some nights and it sounds like they're coming from all around the house.  I hope I never have to kill one of them, but if it poses a danger to my human or critter family... I may have to make that choice.  I dread it.

[driewerf]

Lt. Fred. I'm a gunowner. I own a couple of longarms and a handgun, and I've always done so legally. I keep them locked up when not in use, and I'm very, VERY careful about how I store them.  So, why should I trade my right to carry, in the name of your security?

Because Let Fred's life is more important than your right to have guns. Hue, that was easy.

It is time to put things in balance. And yes, the right to live is higher, more important than the right to bear arms. Therefore that's the one that has to go first.

[Stormwarden]

I see I'm not the only one with that very real possibility, Spaceprog. I'm hearing a lot more of the yippy little things myself. A pack recently killed one of my neighbors' horses. I hope I won't have to use my guns to stop them from going after my animals, but it's a real possibility.

Driewerf: *eyeroll* Should we ban slingshots, any dining implement but a spork, and put safety padding on everything?

"It's time to put things in balance." That's a load of shit if I ever heard one, considering the US overall has the lowest crime rate it's had in a very long time. A total gun ban won't work, not in the US.

[Søren]

Fuck guns.

(s'all im saying)

[SpaceProg]

I see I'm not the only one with that very real possibility, Spaceprog. I'm hearing a lot more of the yippy little things myself. A pack recently killed one of my neighbors' horses. I hope I won't have to use my guns to stop them from going after my animals, but it's a real possibility.

 

Coyote is an Indian word meaning 'little wolf' and is a big part of their folklore.  Coyotes are not to be underestimated.  They are smart and they know how to bring down things many times their size.   I like all animals, Coys included, but... this is my territory and I'm to protect my 'pack' as it were.  Just the same as any other creature would try to protect its territory.  I don't want to kill, but if it's what I eventually will have to do, as much as I'll feel guilty... I just would have been doing something any other animal would do, but with a gun and not fangs and claws.

[driewerf]

Tell you what, Fred, I'm a reasonable guy. You said that prioritizing mental health would be too expensive. Frankly, it would be even more so to leave it unaddressed, both in long-term care and in lives. Of course, prescriptions alone won't be the answer, and if anything, overprescription is part of the problem. That would mean putting our trust back in doctors and shrinks rather than in pill bottles and those who profit from it.

As for gun laws, I'm for them within reason, so long as they don't infringe on the liberties of lawful owners. And Fred, if you can't answer my arguments, say so. Funny how that works both ways.

So that's a no.
Earlier in this thread someone compared the situation with the struggle against shop lifting. Because of shop lifters honest people have to show their bags, some stuff is locked etc.
So yes any form of gun control will infringe the liberties of lawful owners. What ever law you put forward. So what you say again is putting your right to posess arms above all the rest.

[QueenofHearts]

To put things into perspective: I own a slingshot.  More specifically, a "wrist rocket"

Not one of those dinky little toy ones, this one is designed for the hunting of small game.  And I believe it'd be very effective at it, too. I use it for target practice to improve my hand eye coordination.

I imagine it'd also be able to seriously injure any human being should I be foolish enough to use it in such a manner.
Should we ban all slingshots now, simply because of what some of them might do?

I may be a tad naive or uninformed about the dexterity of the human body, but I do think that an assault rifle is a bit more lethal than a slingshot. I also think that setting up a straw man in which any kind of regulation is comparable to a complete ban of all weapons is a poor debate tactic.