Scriptural argument shows that there's no free speech in christendom

[the_ignored]

From Christianity Today

A fiery debate has erupted over a leading Southern Baptist apologist's questioning of Matthew 27. The question: whether Matthew's reference to many saints rising from their graves after Jesus' resurrection might not be literal history.

In a series of open letters posted online, Norman Geisler, distinguished professor of apologetics at Veritas Evangelical Seminary in Murrieta, California, objected to Licona's characterizing the passage as a "strange little text."  Geisler accused Licona of denying the full inerrancy of Scripture. He also called for Licona to recant his interpretation, labeling it "unorthodox, non-evangelical, and a dangerous precedent for the rest of evangelicalism."

"I know a good number of evangelical seminary professors who have privately expressed support for Mike Licona but cannot do so publicly for fear of punitive measures," said Paul Copan, an apologist and president of the Evangelical Philosophical Society.

That statement by Copan is really telling.


Hat tip to the Crossexamined blog

To be clear, the only objectionable item in Licona’s entire 700-page book was the reinterpretation of this one incident in Matthew, and yet he was pressured out of his job as professor at Southern Evangelical Seminary (SES), and his position as apologetics coordinator for the North American Mission Board was eliminated. A single question about biblical inerrancy was, for some, intolerable.

If you read on in the crossexamined blog you'll see that it's not just the creationists who have to toe the line when it comes to dogma.  The various groups do have statements of faith that they have to sign, just as creationists do. 

[Barbarella]

Guys like Mike Licona & his many supporters should ditch his denomination & join a more moderate sane one. I feel non-fundies can be a great asset in fighting fundies. Non-Fundies in all faiths need to come together, speak the truth to power, educate the people and take their faiths back!

[Her3tiK]

Guys like Mike Licona & his many supporters should ditch his denomination & join a more moderate sane one. I feel non-fundies can be a great asset in fighting fundies. Non-Fundies in all faiths need to come together, speak the truth to power, educate the people and take their faiths back!

Or they could admit that it's all bullshit, and, by cherry-picking the parts they like, are doing the exact same thing as the fundamentalists. I mean really, why is the Jesus part so easy to believe, but undead saints is what gives the dude pause?

[Barbarella]

Guys like Mike Licona & his many supporters should ditch his denomination & join a more moderate sane one. I feel non-fundies can be a great asset in fighting fundies. Non-Fundies in all faiths need to come together, speak the truth to power, educate the people and take their faiths back!

Or they could admit that it's all bullshit, and, by cherry-picking the parts they like, are doing the exact same thing as the fundamentalists. I mean really, why is the Jesus part so easy to believe, but undead saints is what gives the dude pause?

True. But since organized religion isn't going away anytime soon, the most realistic option would be to reform what's there. Someday, folks will be able to drop it like a hot potato. Until then, many find comfort & guidance in it. Humanity is a slow learner. Besides, I'd rather see religionists cherry-pick the good, peaceful, humanitarian, progressive stuff and reject the crapola. This is why I think the Gnostic concept of the Demiurge needs to be an accepted concept. The Demiurge is the false God, a vengeful figure of hate & stupidity. To me, it's a metaphor of false/fundy piety awash in Kyriarchy, bigotry, sexism, rigidity, judgmental & far-right thinking. Using the "Demiurge" concept, one can separate the progressive, humane "wheat" from the fundy, backwards, regressive, brutish "chaff" rather than feel obligated to see it all as "Divinely Inspired". Thus, Liberal/Progressive cherry-picking would be good & excusable rather than hypocrisy.

[Old Viking]

Southern Baptists get really pissed if you question the existence of zombies.

[rageaholic]

Not surprising.  Fundamentalism is the most blatant form of authoritarianism.  Do what our interpretation of what the bible says the bible says or burn in hell.  NO QUESTIONS!!!!

[PosthumanHeresy]

Am I the only one who wants to write a short story where the zombie saints start biting people and the apostles band together fighting a zombie apocalypse throughout Jerusalem, lead by evil Zombie Jesus?

[Barbarella]

I should write a fic that's a sort-of "Reverse-Left Behind" which will feature my allegorical, progressive, pro-Moderate/Liberal/Sane Christian/Universalist interpretation of Revelation.

It'll feature The Christ, Yeshua, a swarthy Palestinian Jew who is a teacher of humanitarian values, salvation for all, compassion, true Christian values of goodness & love etc.

Then there's The Antichrist, Jeebus, a Anglo-looking Chuck Norris-looking Jesus-stereotype who's basically "Republican Jesus".

There will be Gnostic elements and references to The Demiurge concept. The Demiurge will be dubbed "AntiGod". Ayn Rand is the Whore Of Babylon. Mary/Miryam Magdalene will be co-Christ & Yeshua & Miryam with be "The Christ-Pair".

It'll be a neat tale. I should think about writing it.

[PosthumanHeresy]

I'd read it. Not sure if it should be Rand or Palin or Coulter, though.

[Barbarella]

I'd read it. Not sure if it should be Rand or Palin or Coulter, though.

Well, I picked Rand because she exemplifies all that "Objectivist/Might Makes Right/Selfishness/Greedy Money Freak" crapola. So the Whore looks like her.

[PosthumanHeresy]

Ahh. Makes sense.

[Witchyjoshy]

I've been thinking of a story where the anti-christ actually appears, and he's a hyper-conservative, charismatic preacher who perfectly emphasizes conservative republican doctrine.  The Rapture never happens, because it was actually a lie perpetuated by Satan.  And so forth.

[PosthumanHeresy]

I'd definitely read it.

[rageaholic]

I've been thinking of a story where the anti-christ actually appears, and he's a hyper-conservative, charismatic preacher who perfectly emphasizes conservative republican doctrine.  The Rapture never happens, because it was actually a lie perpetuated by Satan.  And so forth.

Reminds me of something I thought of.  The fundies believe that the end time are coming and start persecuting their "enemies" believing they will be the objects of God's wrath.  The outcasts are about to be sacrificed/killed, but then the rapture does happen.  Only God's wrath is directed at the fundies themselves.  Consiidering all the hell on earth fundies put people through, it's satisifying to imagine them getting a little hell of their own. 

[PosthumanHeresy]

I'd like to see a short story where the Rapture happens and Mister Rogers rises from the grave, waves goodbye to us all and ascends into Heaven. Because that's the most realistic depiction of the Rapture.