Man shoots black kid cops do nothing

[Dantes Virgil]

No the state has to prove that Zimmerman committed a crime.  Shooting someone in self defense is not a crime, and because of innocent until proven guilty that state has to prove that Zimmerman did not act in self defense.  Which will be hard since he was bloody from the scuffle he had with the kid.

I explained this on the previous page and I know you saw it since you quoted my post above.

Shooting someone is a crime. Shooting someone in self-defense is not, true, but that is not at issue at this moment.

Actually, according to the police in this case it is.

Sanford Police Chief Billy Lee said there is no evidence to dispute self-appointed neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman's assertion that he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin out of self-defense.

"Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don't have the grounds to arrest him," Lee said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T2SUSxFmLWg

Now we can dispute the police officers' motivations all we want, but what is being presented at least in the media suggests at least the possibility that the police are building a better case and thus holding off on arrest, given that they don't feel at the moment they have enough evidence to arrest him.  At the very least, the assertions many people are making that because he shot someone he must in that moment be arrested are not correct.  And the assertions that it's up to him to prove self-defense only at trial, which is what some people also seem to be suggesting, are also not correct.  Once someone is arrested, the clock starts ticking in terms of prosecution.  There is a possibility that they're holding off on prosecuting the guy until they can solidly prosecute him, particularly given how much media attention this case has already gotten. 

Also, and I cannot support this via a source other than hearsay on a blog, so I'm not sure how credible it is, but I'm seeing in several places that Zimmerman might have been a police informant.  That would certainly change the way the cops might handle him, but again, I cannot support that at the moment with something I find more credible, though I'm still looking.

[N. De Plume]

As you've pointed out, the accused murderer has no evidence on which to substantiate (as you admit) his responsibility to bear the onus of proof.

His injuries and what witnesses saw as they came up after the shooting is evidence.

So: surest way to murder someone and get off on self-defense: Make sure your victim fights back and injures you?

[Dantes Virgil]

As much as we might want to see otherwise in some cases, it's still innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.  Not everyone who claims self-defense gets to go home jailfree that night.  Only those who the cops think they cannot immediately prove it wasn't something like self-defense.  As I said earlier, we can certainly dispute the cops' motivations on this case, but we're just speculating.  If they arrested him immediately and couldn't make the charge stick and/or he walked at trial, how much more of a travesty would that be?  Remember, public outrage is not evidence.  Put the man away because we can make it stick, not because we suspect his motives.

[m52nickerson]

So: surest way to murder someone and get off on self-defense: Make sure your victim fights back and injures you?

Yes, that is the whole problem with the Florida law.  Unfortunately the police, state attorney and the courts have to follow that law.  They don't have a choice.  So if Zimmerman walks away without any type of charges blame the lawmakers.

[DiscoBerry]

Question: Does the dead 17 year old actually look like all the pictures that keep getting shown, because he doesn't look threatening, he looks like he is about 13?

[shykid]

My home state never ceases to make me proud.

[davedan]

Well the other disturbing thing is the report from the witness that the Police corrected her.

The witness said "I heard the victim cry for help"

Then the police officer corrected her and said "no Zimmerman cried for help."

That's extraordinarily bad policing.

[QueenofHearts]

Well the other disturbing thing is the report from the witness that the Police corrected her.

The witness said "I heard the victim cry for help"

Then the police officer corrected her and said "no Zimmerman cried for help."

That's extraordinarily bad policing.

I just found this, be careful though the audio, especially number 3, is shocking. The Martin family identifies the voice yelling for help as Trayvon's. With this, as well as other witness testimony that Trayvon had been yelling for help, this is anything but self-defense.

And at someone a few pages back, yeah, it may not be racism and there could be a host of other explanations for the police's lack of action, but a bit of investigation (google) shows that the same police force has a history of overlooking black victims. The head officer investigating both Martin and Collisons cases was Anthony Raimodo. This officer was also previously relieved of duty (with pay, how nice) for perjury and filing a false police report. I'm sorry, these new discoveries just have me a tad angry. How can any police department be so inept as to retain that guy? The Sanford Police Department's a fucking joke. I'm going to the angry dome (hot shower) to calm down.

[Witchyjoshy]

Okay, so...

I've already raged about the police not doing their job... but...

Why aren't the police who are supposed to police the police doing their job?

Literally, all evidence has come out showing that this was a cold-blooded murder, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the police still do nothing.

Fire the whole lot of them.  All of them.

[m52nickerson]

Okay, so...

I've already raged about the police not doing their job... but...

Why aren't the police who are supposed to police the police doing their job?

Literally, all evidence has come out showing that this was a cold-blooded murder, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the police still do nothing.

Fire the whole lot of them.  All of them.

...or perhaps that is not the case, or they are still investigating.

[kefkaownsall]

I understand needing enough evidence but it appears the cops are dragging their heels and that is what gets me.  The fact that they were misleading that witness tells me something is icky

[Cloudy]

Okay, so...

I've already raged about the police not doing their job... but...

Why aren't the police who are supposed to police the police doing their job?

Literally, all evidence has come out showing that this was a cold-blooded murder, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the police still do nothing.

Fire the whole lot of them.  All of them.

...or perhaps that is not the case, or they are still investigating.

Do you really believe that, or are you simply playing Devil's advocate?  I'm not sure how anyone can look at the evidence that is now available and still think that this is simply a matter of the police trying to build a better case.

[N. De Plume]

Okay, so...

I've already raged about the police not doing their job... but...

Why aren't the police who are supposed to police the police doing their job?

Literally, all evidence has come out showing that this was a cold-blooded murder, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the police still do nothing.

Fire the whole lot of them.  All of them.

...or perhaps that is not the case, or they are still investigating.

Do you really believe that, or are you simply playing Devil's advocate?  I'm not sure how anyone can look at the evidence that is now available and still think that this is simply a matter of the police trying to build a better case.

Indeed. How much better a case could they possibly get? Where are the honest-to-goodness weak spots in this case? Can this kid really be seen as provided a credible threat to a guy so much bigger than him with just his bare hands? And even if he could: the kid had just as much right to “stand his ground” as Zimmerman. Moreso, since he was the one being accosted.

[m52nickerson]

The kid was a credible enough threat to injure Zimmerman.  Remember the law in Florida states that a person can use deadly force if they fear sever injury.  You also can't say for sure that Zimmerman approached the Martin in a way that signaled he wanted to harm him.  Listening to Zimmerman's call he said that Martin approached him first and then suddenly ran. 

As for other evidence what do you have?  The parents saying that it was their sons voice calling for help.  That was before the gun shot.  Unless we see evidence from the M.E. report saying Martin also had injuries from the scuffle why would he be calling for help while inflicting damage on someone?  The parents of the victim are going to hear what they want to hear on those tapes.

Now as far as witnesses, I have read of one that the police are saying changed their story after the fact.  That indeed could be on the police, or it could be on the witness.  If the FBI, who are now monitoring the case thinks it is the police they are going to take their time and get evidence that not only Zimmerman murdered.

[kefkaownsall]

The kid was a credible enough threat to injure Zimmerman.  Remember the law in Florida states that a person can use deadly force if they fear sever injury.  You also can't say for sure that Zimmerman approached the Martin in a way that signaled he wanted to harm him.  Listening to Zimmerman's call he said that Martin approached him first and then suddenly ran. 

As for other evidence what do you have?  The parents saying that it was their sons voice calling for help.  That was before the gun shot.  Unless we see evidence from the M.E. report saying Martin also had injuries from the scuffle why would he be calling for help while inflicting damage on someone?  The parents of the victim are going to hear what they want to hear on those tapes.

Now as far as witnesses, I have read of one that the police are saying changed their story after the fact.  That indeed could be on the police, or it could be on the witness.  If the FBI, who are now monitoring the case thinks it is the police they are going to take their time and get evidence that not only Zimmerman murdered.

It was on the police intenal stuff said that the cops told the witness to change her story