Pope Francis I: "All Are Redeemed, And All Can Do Good"

[dpareja]

Welp, if I weren't almost sure he was heading for excommunication based on this sermon alone, I'd almost be ready to convert just based on Pope Frankie here.

Despite the flippant tone, I am actually serious. This is great.

Is it even possible to excommunicate the Pope?

Well, Henry IV of France (III of Navarre) tried.

[Witchyjoshy]

Still quite a ways to go to make up for scolding the nuns though.

Along with the some 2,000 years of...well, to put it bluntly, evil, the Church has perpetrated.  But, like others have said, at least he wasn't a complete dickhead, soooooooo...progress, maybe.  Then again, I'm always wary around the big boys in the Vatican.

I'm sticking strictly to his own personal track record.

As far as I'm concerned it's the rest of the Vatican that needs to make up for the rest.

[Yla]

Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.”

Can someone better versed in the Bible give me chapter and verse on that?

[Sigmaleph]

Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.”

Can someone better versed in the Bible give me chapter and verse on that?

Mark 9:38-41

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

(No, I didn't know that off the top of my head, I just looked up the daily reading for Wednesday)

[Yla]

Thanks.

[Dakota Bob]

If everybody is saved, and don't need to be part of the Church to be so, what's the point of Catholicism now?

[Askold]

I'm a bit conflicted about pope Francis, statements like this are suprisingly fresh, but then he has done stuff like the aforementioned crackdown on those nuns.

So it's kinda like with Obama, he is not the miracle worker some people hoped he would be and in many ways he is just as bad as the previous one but there is good in him and you keep on hoping against all evidence that he actually could change things.

If everybody is saved, and don't need to be part of the Church to be so, what's the point of Catholicism now?

Well, maybe some people want to be catholics? I mean even if we go with the assumption that you can be saved even if you are not an catholic (or any other type of christian) this assumption still relies on christian God, (He is referring to being saved by God, wether or not you believed in him.) so from his point of view it still makes sense to be a christian/catholic, since he believes that christian God does exist and is the one doing the "saving."

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

If everybody is saved, and don't need to be part of the Church to be so, what's the point of Catholicism now?

An excuse to wear hilarious, oversized hats.

[mellenORL]

If everybody is saved, and don't need to be part of the Church to be so, what's the point of Catholicism now?

An excuse to wear hilarious, oversized hats.

And hoard treasure.

RCC as a bad RPG = a sellable game.

[Sigmaleph]

If everybody is saved, and don't need to be part of the Church to be so, what's the point of Catholicism now?

Note he said "redeemed", not saved. I'm not entirely up to date on the technical terms of Catholic theology, but I think that just means that Christ removed the curse of the original sin, but you won't actually be saved unless you... I dunno, confess your sins, accept Jesus, donate to the church?

I suspect that if the Pope had suddenly overturned major Catholic doctrine, it would not be as a casual comment on a speech about something else. And certainly it would get more attention.

[Askold]

False alarm, the Catholic church has given an update regarding this:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/heaven-for-atheists-pope-sparks-debate/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/24/vatican-representative-just-to-be-clear-atheists-are-still-going-to-hell/

Now the only questions are, was the pope just misunderstood or is the church just reining him in after they realised that he has views that are different from the official line.

(On the other hand, isn't the pope supposed to be close to God or have heavenly guidance or something? Shouln't the church follow him rather than the other way around?)

[R. U. Sirius]

Considering that they used to groom potential candidates with family political connections for the Holy See from childhood, I seriously doubt the Pope has ever held the amount of power over the Church that the official party line claims. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it turns out to have never been anything more than a figurehead position.

[Meshakhad]

False alarm, the Catholic church has given an update regarding this:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/heaven-for-atheists-pope-sparks-debate/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/24/vatican-representative-just-to-be-clear-atheists-are-still-going-to-hell/

Now the only questions are, was the pope just misunderstood or is the church just reining him in after they realised that he has views that are different from the official line.

(On the other hand, isn't the pope supposed to be close to God or have heavenly guidance or something? Shouln't the church follow him rather than the other way around?)

I think maybe what he meant was that Catholicism, or even simply belief in G-d, isn't a prerequisite for being a good person.

My general take on Francis is that he's going to push the Church into ramping up its charity efforts.

[Damen]

Well, just because I thought it'd be funny:

[Sigmaleph]

False alarm, the Catholic church has given an update regarding this:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/heaven-for-atheists-pope-sparks-debate/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/24/vatican-representative-just-to-be-clear-atheists-are-still-going-to-hell/

Now the only questions are, was the pope just misunderstood or is the church just reining him in after they realised that he has views that are different from the official line.

(On the other hand, isn't the pope supposed to be close to God or have heavenly guidance or something? Shouln't the church follow him rather than the other way around?)

He said something non-controversial he's been saying since the beginning of his papacy (atheists can work together with believers to do good), people understood something completely differently that would completely violate standard Catholic doctrine.

I cannot help but be astounded by how many people somehow became convinced that Bergoglio is the second coming of Secularist Jesus and the only reason he hasn't saved the world yet is that the Church is stopping him. He's a conservative Catholic who made a number of symbolic gestures of humility. He will not overturn any major doctrine regarding contraception, LGBTQ rights, women's rights, abortion, or salvation of non-believers. If we're lucky, he may be more focused on charity and less on spiritual purity than his predecessors.