Author Topic: Shooting spree in DC  (Read 10415 times)

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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2013, 11:17:52 pm »
I'm going to be somber and say I'm really glad everyone I know, including my aunt and uncle, are no longer in DC. My aunt and uncle were career Navy and had settled in DC before moving to Germany.

With that said, this was organized. This wasn't a couple of nuts deciding to shoot up some place. The Naval Yard was picked for a reason.

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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2013, 11:32:36 pm »
Well, he was reportedly "obsessed" with "violent video games."  ::)

Let's get Jack Thompson on the case!

Actually, I think that the courts are so sick of him that if he ever shows up as an attorney again, they'll just sentence him to death.

A Florida judge told him, in more polite wording, to get the fuck out of his courtroom with this stupid shit. He then took away his license.
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Offline KZN02

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2013, 12:10:33 am »
Well, he was reportedly "obsessed" with "violent video games."  ::)
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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2013, 05:03:59 pm »
Remember when I said this guy was a nutbag? Turns out that when he had 8 charges of misconduct while he was in the military. And now there's reports that he was hearing voices.
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Offline Sleepy

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2013, 05:54:32 pm »
He was undergoing treatment according to this, which leads to a nasty debate. When do you strip someone of their security clearance? Obviously it'd be unfair to do it if someone is merely seeing a mental health professional, because that'd include the millions of people with depression, anxiety, and other common issues.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2013, 06:49:56 pm »
He was undergoing treatment according to this, which leads to a nasty debate. When do you strip someone of their security clearance? Obviously it'd be unfair to do it if someone is merely seeing a mental health professional, because that'd include the millions of people with depression, anxiety, and other common issues.

That's always been the major contention when it comes to denying things like firearms or security clearance based on mental health: exactly where IS the line? Mental health is such a blurry field that creating specific demarcations of behavior to adhere to when determining "crazy vs. not crazy" is almost impossible. It takes very little mismanagement of the system to either let huge amounts of people through the cracks or deny things to huge amounts of people who aren't a danger "just to be safe." If simply having a psychiatrist or being on medication for mental health was enough to get you put on The List, how many members of this forum would be in trouble?
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Offline Askold

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2013, 12:18:17 am »
Another problem is that people who are having problems might not dare to seek help because they fear that their guns will be taken away...
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Offline lord gibbon

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2013, 12:45:30 am »
Another problem is that people who are having problems might not dare to seek help because they fear that their guns will be taken away...

Maybe I'll sound a little callous here, but wouldn't it be good for mentally unstable people not to have guns?
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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2013, 12:50:25 am »
Another problem is that people who are having problems might not dare to seek help because they fear that their guns will be taken away...

Maybe I'll sound a little callous here, but wouldn't it be good for mentally unstable people not to have guns?

Mentally unstable is not the same thing as depression or ADHD.
History is full of maniacs, my friend, men and women of intelect, highly perceptive individuals, who's brilliant minds know neither restraint nor taboo. Such notions are the devils we must slay for the edification of pony-kind. Even if said edification means violating the rules of decency, society, and rightousness itself.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2013, 01:04:10 am »
Another problem is that people who are having problems might not dare to seek help because they fear that their guns will be taken away...

Maybe I'll sound a little callous here, but wouldn't it be good for mentally unstable people not to have guns?

Mentally unstable is not the same thing as depression or ADHD.
Yeah, I was mostly referring to things like depression. Things that you can recover from or medicate. And although I support confiscating guns on some occasions I know that this does raise the bar for some people to seek help. I would think that in a place like USA where gun ownership is like a religion to some it can be even worse.

But people do get better, my dad had his guns taken away for a while after a certain... Incident.

But now he is better and he got his hunting guns back.
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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2013, 01:33:05 am »


So wait, I thought we're the ghoulish ones that makes shootings about politics?

As for what happened. . . honestly, guns aren't the central problem. Gun fetishism is symptomatic of the problem, in that it feeds into people who think they're entitled to make others listen to them at any cost. But a case like this, you know I don't honestly know what caused it. It's tragic all around.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2013, 03:04:42 am »
There's a relatively liberal gun aficionado and writer that I found recently; can't remember his name, but he did a book where he interviewed both sides of the gun debate (both extremists and regular folk) to figure out exactly what's motivating everyone.

On one of his blog posts last year, he brought up the shooting and bombing in Norway. He pointed out how unlike American media, the Norwegian news barely said a thing about his guns or how he got them, despite Norway being a country with much lower gun ownership and more restrictive access.

He thinks the Norwegians have it right: how the guy got his guns or whether he should have had them isn't the point, and it distracts from the real issue. Instead, they focus on determining how someone got to the point where they thought that slaughtering innocent people was a solution to anything in the first place, and how they can keep people from thinking that.

Another of his posts mentioned how divisive gun politics are, and how they keep society from progressing: right-wingers would likely be much more willing to accept a progressive, liberal agenda if they weren't so afraid that Obama was "gunna steal all my shotguns!" and if the left-wingers would stop giving them any reason to be paranoid about a gun grab instead of focusing on real problems in society, like mental health care, education, and the economy.
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2013, 04:43:36 am »
He was undergoing treatment according to this, which leads to a nasty debate. When do you strip someone of their security clearance? Obviously it'd be unfair to do it if someone is merely seeing a mental health professional, because that'd include the millions of people with depression, anxiety, and other common issues.

Is the question a legitimate one or...? Because if he had a lot of shit on his record his security clearance should have been yanked.

As for the debate about when someone is not mentally fit to own a gun... there's really not a definite answer. I'm sure for some people, they wouldn't want someone like me to have a gun because of my depression and dysphoria even tho I would never use my gun to murder someone in cold blood. It's self-defense and target practice only.

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2013, 05:12:55 am »
I'm guessing at some point it's a "You'll know it when you see it" sorta deal.

.....Except for one big fucking problem.  You can't see mental illness.  So it's really hard to fucking tell.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Shooting spree in DC
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2013, 12:35:08 pm »
I'm guessing at some point it's a "You'll know it when you see it" sorta deal.

.....Except for one big fucking problem.  You can't see mental illness.  So it's really hard to fucking tell.

That's why, even though it's easy to say "Something must be done!" and start to come up with pie-in-the-sky ideal plans, actually doing that something is really complex and difficult. Mental illness may have certain symptoms that can be checked against an existing text to make a diagnosis, but everyone is different and has different symptoms at different severities. Some of the most crazy and dangerous people can seem outwardly normal on the surface, to the point where they may never get help because nobody thinks about sending them to a psychiatrist (or the only ones who think about it don't have the authority to have the guy tossed in a padded cell).

Unfortunately, you'll usually know it and see it for sure when the guy is in the process of killing you.
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