GamerGate

[Ultimate Paragon]

Yeah, keep on drinking that Kool-Aid. You're really not doing your side any favors, you know that?

First: whose Kool-Aid? The mediatic consensus seems to be that Gamergaters are specifically motivated by hatred of women, and guilty by association of the harassment campaigns against the "literally whos". This is not what I'm saying.

Second. You do realise that the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid", along with "taking the red pill", has become a dead horse in most sane environments due to its severe overuse in... certain communities? The very kind of communities you adamantly deny Gamergate has any links with?

Third: can we at least agree that this guy in particular is exemplifying the tendencies I'm condemning inside Gamergate?

Fourth: "my side". I won't even point out what's wrong with this, because you know it already.

Holy backpedal, Batman!  You literally just said that all of GamerGate is about xenophobia.  And now it's just "this guy in particular"?

You see?  This is exactly what I'm talking about!  People thinking the assholes in GamerGate representing the movement as a whole!  That's like saying everybody in the modern anti-war movement is like Ward Churchill.

However, I will agree that the dude's an asshole.  And maybe I was wrong to refer to "your side".

[dpareja]

So you stop harassment? How much more harassment--stopped or not--has occurred because of GamerGate? Has any harassment been outright prevented by your movement, and is that greater than the amount that would never have occurred without GamerGate?

[Murdin]

Xenophobia and hatred of women are two different if related things. Gamergate is primarily about the former. And so is the "Social Justice movement" for that matter, in its own incredibly warped way.

Switching from "GG as a whole" to "this guy in particular" WAS something of a backpedal, though. I'm just really frustrated that this Gamergate cancer is spreading everywhere, and that everyone who refuses to stand for it is lambasted as an enemy of free speech and a shill for the global SJW conspiracy. And honestly, I feel that this guy is quite representative of my everyday experiences with Gamergaters.

Even if you are right and the fanatic culture warriors are a vocal minority, they are still the ones I always hear yelling. More importantly, they are the only ones I see having any kind of impact on the gaming community.

Wait... "culture warrors", "with me or against me", "vocal minority who just won't shut up", "toxic impact on the community"? Am I talking about GG, or SJW? And does it even matter, when it can apply equally to both?


I'll give that to Gamergaters, though: overall, the folks at RedditInAction do not seem to be quite as bad as this vocal minority I have to put up with everytime I do anything gaming-related on the Internet. While not exactly surprising, this is more than I could say about Manosphere, white supremacist, or right-wing conspiracy communties, who are even more rotten on the inside than their public discourse make them look to be.

[Sigmaleph]

So you stop harassment? How much more harassment--stopped or not--has occurred because of GamerGate? Has any harassment been outright prevented by your movement, and is that greater than the amount that would never have occurred without GamerGate?

Not really a fair question, is it? How exactly do you distinguish between harassment that happens because of GamerGate and harassment that would've happened anyway?

It's not enough to just look at harassment by Gamergaters, because a large portion of the harassing GG'ers are the same people that were e.g. harassing Anita Sarkeesian since she begun her Kickstarter. In the counterfactual universe where GG never happened, those same people would've still harassed Sarkeesian, just without the pretense of being part of a movement.

You could look at raw numbers of harassment before and during GG, I guess, but a) I have no idea how you'd go about getting a reliable source for those numbers and b) correlation is not causation.

Or this was just a rhetorical question I overanalysed. I do that sometimes.

[Murdin]

The comments on this Youtube video represent everything I hate about Gamergate.

One comment applauds the dehumanizing "slay the dragon" warrior rhetoric in the video? Gets a balance of 541 upvotes, second only to TotalBiscuit's (actually quite decent) rant. Some entitled dudebro outright claims that gaming BELONG to white male nerds? 72 points, and while some people did call him off, his score is consistently higher than theirs. The American Enterprise Institution joins the circle-jerk, hovering around future right-wing talking points like a vulture smelling carrion? More than 200 upvotes.

The one guy that "wish gamergate would have stayed on topic with the corruption of game journalism"? 16 points in as many hours.

UP, you have to understand that this is what Gamergate looks like to me.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

That some gamergaters are good people has never been in doubt, at least for me but attempts to rid this movement of harrassers are never going to work completely because at its core gamergate is about shutting down discussion, not ethics in videogame journalism and this is why you are always going to have the harrassment problem with gamergate.

Some people will try to stop discussion by shouting it down, others by trying to force media outlets to bend to their will with boycotts but some will just resort to old fashioned methods like threatening to pummle people until they stop talking.

[Ultimate Paragon]

That some gamergaters are good people has never been in doubt, at least for me but attempts to rid this movement of harrassers are never going to work completely because at its core gamergate is about shutting down discussion, not ethics in videogame journalism and this is why you are always going to have the harrassment problem with gamergate.

Some people will try to stop discussion by shouting it down, others by trying to force media outlets to bend to their will with boycotts but some will just resort to old fashioned methods like threatening to pummle people until they stop talking.

Wait, so boycotts are censorship now?

[Witchyjoshy]

That some gamergaters are good people has never been in doubt, at least for me but attempts to rid this movement of harrassers are never going to work completely because at its core gamergate is about shutting down discussion, not ethics in videogame journalism and this is why you are always going to have the harrassment problem with gamergate.

Some people will try to stop discussion by shouting it down, others by trying to force media outlets to bend to their will with boycotts but some will just resort to old fashioned methods like threatening to pummle people until they stop talking.

Wait, so boycotts are censorship now?

Is your memory span short?  We already went over what it is that Gamergate does that censors people!

[Second Coming of Madman]

You know, Murdoch Spawn, using the words culture war in a negative sense is kinda a odd move considering you used culture war in a positive sense for your crusade against Daddy / "Gaming Culture" / windmills. Of course, using the invalid language of Pat Buchanan already makes me shit all over your opinions.

But, then again. You'd have to put it in big shiny lights for me to give a shit about your heaving thighs about this non-issue.

Shillgate necrophile, you and those heaving thighs need to learn something about the internet: shit happens. So for this occasion and all other times I get replies from you, I speak in a language you can understand: Green text. This one is for you, Murdoch Spawn.

This one is for you, Madman. Reading the goddamn thread and figuring out that I realized this was needless issue corpse-fucking long ago would certainly help. But then again, I'm but a figment of your base desires.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jykfj/hiya_im_an_antigg_ama/clgbtvt Ah, yes. The almighty Reddit has and will be always a reliable source of information.

Gamergate is nothing more than a culture war against the "Social Justice" invasion, ie a xenophobic tantrum against those who dare say negative things about their subculture. "Journalistic ethics" is but a pretext, something to make themselves look good and attract the gullible to use them as a shield. See opening statement. At this point, this is something like a grand pissing contest of first problems the like I've never seen. I bet you ten bucks somebody somewhere is performing ritual genital mutilation, and all the while third-wavers like you are getting into a hissy fit over this issue corpse.

If I could bother checking this guy's history, I'm sure I would find him complaining about "forced" minority inclusion in HIS entertainment, and trying to prove that video games/comics/whatever are more objectifying against men than women. ...Who? I told you, I don't give a shit.

This kind of attitude right here is why I abhor Gamergate as a whole, not just "the minority of harassers among them". And it's absolutely everywhere, even though most Gamergaters aren't as frank and direct (and honest about themselves) about it. For somebody who seems to have a utter morgue hate-on for me, you sure can't do the goddamn research. I at least did that for your F&B thread, Murdoch Spawn. Why can't you reciprocate my hate?

.   

[Cloud3514]

That some gamergaters are good people has never been in doubt, at least for me but attempts to rid this movement of harrassers are never going to work completely because at its core gamergate is about shutting down discussion, not ethics in videogame journalism and this is why you are always going to have the harrassment problem with gamergate.

Some people will try to stop discussion by shouting it down, others by trying to force media outlets to bend to their will with boycotts but some will just resort to old fashioned methods like threatening to pummle people until they stop talking.

Wait, so boycotts are censorship now?

What is the purpose of the boycotts? Is it because they want a better alternative? They want unbiased press? No, it's because they want the press to bend to their desires and be biased in THEIR favor. So, in this case, yes, boycotts are censorship.

[Ultimate Paragon]

That some gamergaters are good people has never been in doubt, at least for me but attempts to rid this movement of harrassers are never going to work completely because at its core gamergate is about shutting down discussion, not ethics in videogame journalism and this is why you are always going to have the harrassment problem with gamergate.

Some people will try to stop discussion by shouting it down, others by trying to force media outlets to bend to their will with boycotts but some will just resort to old fashioned methods like threatening to pummle people until they stop talking.

Wait, so boycotts are censorship now?

What is the purpose of the boycotts? Is it because they want a better alternative? They want unbiased press? No, it's because they want the press to bend to their desires and be biased in THEIR favor. So, in this case, yes, boycotts are censorship.

[Sigmaleph]

You know, Murdoch Spawn, using the words culture war in a negative sense is kinda a odd move considering you used culture war in a positive sense for your crusade against Daddy / "Gaming Culture" / windmills. Of course, using the invalid language of Pat Buchanan already makes me shit all over your opinions.

But, then again. You'd have to put it in big shiny lights for me to give a shit about your heaving thighs about this non-issue.

Shillgate necrophile, you and those heaving thighs need to learn something about the internet: shit happens. So for this occasion and all other times I get replies from you, I speak in a language you can understand: Green text. This one is for you, Murdoch Spawn.

This one is for you, Madman. Reading the goddamn thread and figuring out that I realized this was needless issue corpse-fucking long ago would certainly help. But then again, I'm but a figment of your base desires.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jykfj/hiya_im_an_antigg_ama/clgbtvt Ah, yes. The almighty Reddit has and will be always a reliable source of information.

Gamergate is nothing more than a culture war against the "Social Justice" invasion, ie a xenophobic tantrum against those who dare say negative things about their subculture. "Journalistic ethics" is but a pretext, something to make themselves look good and attract the gullible to use them as a shield. See opening statement. At this point, this is something like a grand pissing contest of first problems the like I've never seen. I bet you ten bucks somebody somewhere is performing ritual genital mutilation, and all the while third-wavers like you are getting into a hissy fit over this issue corpse.

If I could bother checking this guy's history, I'm sure I would find him complaining about "forced" minority inclusion in HIS entertainment, and trying to prove that video games/comics/whatever are more objectifying against men than women. ...Who? I told you, I don't give a shit.

This kind of attitude right here is why I abhor Gamergate as a whole, not just "the minority of harassers among them". And it's absolutely everywhere, even though most Gamergaters aren't as frank and direct (and honest about themselves) about it. For somebody who seems to have a utter morgue hate-on for me, you sure can't do the goddamn research. I at least did that for your F&B thread, Murdoch Spawn. Why can't you reciprocate my hate?

.   

If you have a problem with Murdin, take it to F&B. If you want to make pointless angry noises, do it elsewhere. But whatever it is you're trying to do with this post, don't do it here.

[Murdin]

... UP, at this point I just want you to know that I'm not putting you on the same bag as Madman, or culture-war Gamergaters for that matter. You are not an annoying, hysterical douchebag obsessed with SJWs, nor are you... well, an annoying, hysterical douchebag obsessed with me. I actually kind of respect you a bit more than the baseline, and this is why I care so much about your opinion. Sorry for being such a jerk about this sometimes. Often. Every time.

Shitpost

Way to completely and utterly miss every single one of my points.

Everytime I spoke about culture war rhetoric it was to condemn it. I called you out on that point, because I remember your passive-agressive mention in this OP. And even then, only because I thought it meant you didn't believe me when I said Gamergaters think of themselves as being on a crusade to protect gamer culture. But apparently, I seriously overestimated you. You saw me write "this is a culture war", ignored the context, and immediately thought I was describing my mentality, rather than one I condemn among Gamergaters.

The fact that Gamergate is about pretty much nothing is exactly what infuriates and worries me so much. This is precisely what makes it such a terrible statement about the current generation of Western (mostly American) teenagers and young adults. If that is the kind of outlet they are using right now to vent their fears and frustrations, I can't even imagine what they are going do in a few decades when they hold the political and economic power and have to deal with matters that really DO threaten everything they hold dear.

(click to show/hide)

Only somewhat worse than the current leaders, probably. But the circumstances will have changed, and mediocrity won't be enough to avoid large-scale disaster.

I fail to see how Youtube comments on a related video, or ESPECIALLY a dedicated subreddit, are unreliable sources about a grassroots, Internet-based movement. They are random dudes on the Internet, sure... and this is exactly what Gamergate is made of. Not some kind of large, top-down conspiracy orchestrated by stupid evil politicians and media moguls, like what your strawman of me seems to believes.

Now please twist these in the absolute worst way possible, so that I can at least have a good laugh out of this nonsense.

Ad hominem attacks will be adressed in F&B. If ever.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

That some gamergaters are good people has never been in doubt, at least for me but attempts to rid this movement of harrassers are never going to work completely because at its core gamergate is about shutting down discussion, not ethics in videogame journalism and this is why you are always going to have the harrassment problem with gamergate.

Some people will try to stop discussion by shouting it down, others by trying to force media outlets to bend to their will with boycotts but some will just resort to old fashioned methods like threatening to pummle people until they stop talking.

Wait, so boycotts are censorship now?

What is the purpose of the boycotts? Is it because they want a better alternative? They want unbiased press? No, it's because they want the press to bend to their desires and be biased in THEIR favor. So, in this case, yes, boycotts are censorship.

Well why are Gamergate boycotting Kotaku, Polygon, Cracked and Gamasutra if not to demand that they change the way in which they write about games and gamers in general and Gamergate supporters in particular?

[Ultimate Paragon]

That some gamergaters are good people has never been in doubt, at least for me but attempts to rid this movement of harrassers are never going to work completely because at its core gamergate is about shutting down discussion, not ethics in videogame journalism and this is why you are always going to have the harrassment problem with gamergate.

Some people will try to stop discussion by shouting it down, others by trying to force media outlets to bend to their will with boycotts but some will just resort to old fashioned methods like threatening to pummle people until they stop talking.

Wait, so boycotts are censorship now?

What is the purpose of the boycotts? Is it because they want a better alternative? They want unbiased press? No, it's because they want the press to bend to their desires and be biased in THEIR favor. So, in this case, yes, boycotts are censorship.

Well why are Gamergate boycotting Kotaku, Polygon, Cracked and Gamasutra if not to demand that they change the way in which they write about games and gamers in general and Gamergate supporters in particular?

Yes, how dare gamers be offended at websites demonizing their subculture!

Fact is, in each case those websites struck the first blow.  Now they're dealing with the consequences of their actions.