Author Topic: GamerGate  (Read 141018 times)

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Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #750 on: November 14, 2014, 05:14:47 pm »
It's also worth noting that Gamergaters also tried to spin Michael Morhime as pro-Gamergate.

While bashing the woman who transcribed his words as anti-Gamergate.

They must have all been pallies.  You know, the kind that do nothing but whine on the WoW forums when they're even tapped with the nerf bat, even if it's direly needed for class balance.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #751 on: November 14, 2014, 07:28:40 pm »
I think this person speaks for me in this regard.

I find it really annoying when an opponent of Gamergate claims that every person related to it is actively and willingly taking part in an harassment campaign. The fact is that most of them sincerely do not approve of this kind of action. Sure, a depressing number of them are only doing so in order to protect their PR, but assimilating Gamergate to some kind of crime syndicate is just... it's such an incredibly unfair and inflammatory abortion of an argument, really.

That's actually a fair point, not every Gater is a harasser and some are primarily interested in the issues. I don't agree with their take on the issues but that's another topic. I do think that it started with harassment, the gamergate tags origins are evidence enough of this.

That said, if you want a discussion of the issues that Gamergate says they are concerned of from a perspective opposed to GamerGate you'd be better off approaching Christopher Grant or Leigh Alexander, and yes, Arthur Chu, because they actually have something to say about ethics, journalism and how both pertain to gaming and have communicated their own opinions about GamerGate's position on ethics and journalism quite clearly.

Chu's point stands, crowdsourcing questions to ask Quinn and Wu-who are developers who have not commented extensively on ethics on game journalism, are not game journalists and are victims of harassment does give their harassers another platform to approach them and won't reveal anything about ethics in videogame journalism as they aren't journalists but small time developers who happen to have been the target of harassment. Even non harassing questions would likely be about harassment as that's the subject they are most qualified to discuss.

If Pakman honestly wanted a productive dialogue between GamerGate supporters and their critics he'd approach people who are GamerGate critics with something to say about ethics and journalism, not victims of harassment. If you put Wu and Quinn on a podium and asked them to justify their own harrassment you'd just get a lot of obtuse shitslinging from everyone and hurt feelings all round. If you don't want it to be as productive as a drunken family argument at Christmas get people with something to say on the issues to answer questions.

Offline Murdin

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #752 on: November 14, 2014, 08:08:06 pm »
You know what would impress me with Gamergate?  If all the decent people in the movement who honestly believe it's about ethics in gaming journalism is leave the movement and start their own.  Leave the sexist, misoginistic idiots behind, the people who continue to doxx people for any reason whatsoever(the latest we'll get to in a second), and just start their own movement.  Seriously the label cannot be that attractive to people.

So remember when I said "doxx people for any reason whatsoever"?  The woman who runs the Wowhead liveblog was liveblogging what was going on.  She transcribed Michael Morhaime's opening speech at Blizzcon, which had a part in it where he spoke out against Gamergate's policy of doxxing and harassment and urged people to take the good vibes and feelings from the weekend forward, and she got death threats for it.  Let me repeat.  She got death threats for basically repeating what this man was saying as he said it.

Ironbite-I say it again, leave the label behind and get a new one

*le gasp* Are you seriously trying to incite Gamergaters into splitting from their own brothers over these bullshit Social Justice issues? How dare you inject politics into a debate where it clearly has absolutely no place whatsoever? You are just a sheep of the liberal establishment, trying to weaken a consumer movement with legitimate grievances over ethics in hobbyist journalism!

Besides, our brothers from the Manosphere are not misogynistic at all. They do not hate women, nor do they wish harm to them. Their fight against the widespread discrimination of straight males does not make them sexist, in the same way racial segregation advocates cannot be called racist. You are just being intolerant of people with different conceptions than yours about the rightful position of women within society.


Serious answer: it's been proposed before, multiple times, by public as well as anonymous voices. Some people actually tried, and besides pushing Gamergaters even deeper in their us-versus-them insanity, it didn't amount to anything. We'll just have to accept the fact that the issues that Gamergate is dealing with are that much more important than our first-world problems.

And I'm going to stop there, before I start ranting about the kind of ideas and beliefs that are being held as consensus within the GG community.


That's actually a fair point, not every Gater is a harasser and some are primarily interested in the issues. I don't agree with their take on the issues but that's another topic. I do think that it started with harassment, the gamergate tags origins are evidence enough of this.

I actually agree that the Literally Whos are the stupidest possible choice for a two-sided debate about Gamergate. But with all those hyperboles and dubious metaphores about the KKK and climate change and the GOP and every Gamergater being a troll and a criminal... the actual point of the letter become all too easy to miss, and all too easy to dismiss. You can't expect to be taken seriously after displaying so much bad faith.

I mean, I probably could have used that one about #NotYourShield and poor Republican voters, but that's because I am usually preaching to the choir and/or arguing with known lost causes.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #753 on: November 14, 2014, 08:48:44 pm »
OK, so it's simple. Argue about journalism, ethics and your interpretation of that.

Leave discussion of internet drama on the backburner.

Offline ironbite

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #754 on: November 14, 2014, 09:17:07 pm »
Wow what a thoughtful and well written response that in no way shape or form actually answers my question other then, "Oh well you see it's impossible so learn to take the doxxing and harassment as well as the ethics in game journalism that actually we have no clue about because well what's ethics in journalism in general.  Also boycotts work because Intel just put their ads back on Gamersutra.  Wait..."

Ironbite-perhaps you should look into actually splitting because your brothers in arms aren't doing you any favors.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #755 on: November 14, 2014, 09:37:22 pm »
Actually, about that getting Intel to pull ads from Gamasutra thing...

Seems more and more companies are not wanting to buy into the GamerGate drama at all, that is if they aren't coming out and flat out saying they are opposed to GamerGate.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #756 on: November 16, 2014, 11:16:02 am »
Here's my question: why doesn't the Social Justice movement call itself something different as well?  After all, one could easily argue that its image has been tainted by the radflakes.

Actually, about that getting Intel to pull ads from Gamasutra thing...

Seems more and more companies are not wanting to buy into the GamerGate drama at all, that is if they aren't coming out and flat out saying they are opposed to GamerGate.


The Telegraph cites an anonymous “spokesperson”…

I’m skeptical.  Even assuming The Telegraph isn’t being had, this whole thing has shown how corrupt and biased a lot of the MSM is.

Anyone about to say “The Telegraph is a 160 year-old mainstay of the British press”, remember…

News of the World was 170 years-old, and we all know how that ended.

Oh yes, and plenty of companies are supporting GamerGate.  It's just that they're not proclaiming it to the world, for completely understandable reasons.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 11:28:52 am by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #757 on: November 16, 2014, 12:22:52 pm »
Here's my question: why doesn't the Social Justice movement call itself something different as well?  After all, one could easily argue that its image has been tainted by the radflakes.

How far do you think discussions on population control would get if we insisted on calling it by it's original term eugenics?

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #758 on: November 16, 2014, 12:40:22 pm »
Here's my question: why doesn't the Social Justice movement call itself something different as well?  After all, one could easily argue that its image has been tainted by the radflakes.

Argue it, then.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #759 on: November 16, 2014, 06:32:58 pm »
Here's my question: why doesn't the Social Justice movement call itself something different as well?  After all, one could easily argue that its image has been tainted by the radflakes.

Argue it, then.

I don't actually think they should, I was just turning a stupid argument on its head.  Why should a movement change its name because of a few bad apples unless they have something to hide?

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #760 on: November 16, 2014, 07:44:55 pm »
You miss my point. I don't think you have established that the damage to the reputation of the Social Justice movement is equal to that of Gamergate, and hence the analogy is invalid.

If a group's reputation is damaged enough that a large majority of other groups don't want to deal with them, out of fear of being tarred by association, then building a new reputation under a new name is a possible out. Not the only out, sure, but it's not a ridiculous proposition. The public perception of Gamergate, regardless of its bad apple ratio, is bad enough that I think it can get in the way of anything they do for their cause.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #761 on: November 16, 2014, 07:51:32 pm »
Here's my question: why doesn't the Social Justice movement call itself something different as well?  After all, one could easily argue that its image has been tainted by the radflakes.

Actually, about that getting Intel to pull ads from Gamasutra thing...

Seems more and more companies are not wanting to buy into the GamerGate drama at all, that is if they aren't coming out and flat out saying they are opposed to GamerGate.


The Telegraph cites an anonymous “spokesperson”…

I’m skeptical.  Even assuming The Telegraph isn’t being had, this whole thing has shown how corrupt and biased a lot of the MSM is.

Anyone about to say “The Telegraph is a 160 year-old mainstay of the British press”, remember…

News of the World was 170 years-old, and we all know how that ended.

Oh yes, and plenty of companies are supporting GamerGate.  It's just that they're not proclaiming it to the world, for completely understandable reasons.

Yeah-that News of the World and the Tele, both newspapers and British-the connection is uncanny.

Also, Gamasutra confirmed ads are back, but I guess some folks won't buy it until the CEO of Intel shouts it from a rooftop wearing a #stopgamergate2014 T shirt.

Also "Social Justice movement", that would include Catholic nuns and Food Not Bombs anarchists and indeed many supporters of Gamergate who see their cause as contributing to society and justice-exactly how broad is the criteria for this alleged movement?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 07:54:25 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #762 on: November 16, 2014, 09:30:20 pm »
It's UP.
 
Logic long ago left the building.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #763 on: November 16, 2014, 09:42:59 pm »
Semantics on the other hand have asserted squatting rights and made it their permanent home!

Offline ironbite

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Re: GamerGate
« Reply #764 on: November 18, 2014, 04:45:59 pm »
So Gamergate has an investigation arm.  And what are they investigating you ask?  Weather or not a game dedicated to a dying kid who's going through cancer which one a few awards is being backed by the people who give out said awards.



When I saw this on twitter this morning I had to ask the question of what were they going to do if it turns out that this was the case.  I never got an answer but a bunch of Gaters stopped by and decided to "educate" me on why this is such a bad thing but never answered my question about what they were going to do.

Ironbite-I suggested harass the parents but I don't think they got it.