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Was Adam supposed to sin in God's great plan?

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Gnostic Christian:
Was Adam supposed to sin in God's great plan?

Thanks.

Regards
DL

Sigmaleph:
Probably?

If one assumes, as specified in the question, that there is such a thing as God's great plan, and one grants that God is omnipotent omniscient etc. then there's basically two options for anything. Either a) it was meant to happen as it did, or b) the plan had no opinion on the matter. There is no c option of the plan being that something else happens, because if omnipotence means anything it means that things go the way you want them to.

So we're left with the possibility that God wanted Adam to sin, or God didn't care if Adam sinned. Except, the story goes, Adam sinning changed everything, threw people out of paradise, created agriculture, etc. It seems kind of odd to declare that God had a great plan and it was completely indifferent to these things happening or not.

So yes, assuming there is such a thing as the great plan and that God works as claimed and that the consequences of eating the fruit of the tree were as described, probably Adam was supposed to sin. Feel free to write your own bible fanfic challenging those assumptions, though.

Tolpuddle Martyr:
Of course that was the point, if there's no fall there's no lesson to be learned. Just a weird human zoo where the inhabitants munch on anything not apple related. It'd make the bible a lot shorter, less bloody and a whole lot less confusing.

It's basic worldbuilding, no conflict, no interest, nobody cares.

Gnostic Christian:

--- Quote from: Sigmaleph on September 06, 2021, 11:51:02 am ---Probably?

If one assumes, as specified in the question, that there is such a thing as God's great plan, and one grants that God is omnipotent omniscient etc. then there's basically two options for anything. Either a) it was meant to happen as it did, or b) the plan had no opinion on the matter. There is no c option of the plan being that something else happens, because if omnipotence means anything it means that things go the way you want them to.

So we're left with the possibility that God wanted Adam to sin, or God didn't care if Adam sinned. Except, the story goes, Adam sinning changed everything, threw people out of paradise, created agriculture, etc. It seems kind of odd to declare that God had a great plan and it was completely indifferent to these things happening or not.

So yes, assuming there is such a thing as the great plan and that God works as claimed and that the consequences of eating the fruit of the tree were as described, probably Adam was supposed to sin. Feel free to write your own bible fanfic challenging those assumptions, though.

--- End quote ---

Not at all.

I agree that sin is necessary to the Christian god.

It is also necessary to our real evolution.

I just do not think using Jesus as savior and remedy for something good is moral.

Do you think A & E took us out of heaven to hell or hell to heaven? So to speak, as neither of those are real.

Would life without knowledge be worth living?

Regards
DL

Gnostic Christian:

--- Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on September 07, 2021, 12:21:35 am ---Of course that was the point, if there's no fall there's no lesson to be learned. Just a weird human zoo where the inhabitants munch on anything not apple related. It'd make the bible a lot shorter, less bloody and a whole lot less confusing.

It's basic worldbuilding, no conflict, no interest, nobody cares.

--- End quote ---

True that all good hero yarns needs a villain.

Adding to what I just asked our friend, do you see Eden as where we fell or more like where we were elevated.

You will likely know that Christians call it a fall with a negative Original Sin, while Jews call it our elevation and positive Original Virtue.

Regards
DL
 

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