Author Topic: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory  (Read 24583 times)

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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2014, 02:58:46 pm »
So if liberal Christians don't abandon their faith and become atheists, they're the same as fundies? Again, false dilemma.

And thank you for claiming I'm a secret Dominionist too; that's certainly not offensive or anything.

I didn't say they needed to become atheists (though I certainly would not mind.) All they have to do to not catch the flak from the pernicious effects Christianity has had on the world is to edit their book and stop calling themselves Christians. Problem solved.

You may not be a Dominionist, but you point to the same book they do and revere it.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2014, 03:01:44 pm »
You talk about it as if it were as easy as changing socks, Chewie.  PROTIP: It ain't, and insisting that they should is basically giving the regular atheists a bad name because the trilby associates itself with us despite being a distinctly different breed.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2014, 03:05:33 pm »
So if liberal Christians don't abandon their faith and become atheists, they're the same as fundies? Again, false dilemma.

And thank you for claiming I'm a secret Dominionist too; that's certainly not offensive or anything.

I didn't say they needed to become atheists (though I certainly would not mind.) All they have to do to not catch the flak from the pernicious effects Christianity has had on the world is to edit their book and stop calling themselves Christians. Problem solved.

You may not be a Dominionist, but you point to the same book they do and revere it.

In other words, they have to abandon their faith.  Yeah, I'm certain most Christians would take offense to that.

And you're sounding pretty damn intolerant right now.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2014, 03:07:16 pm »
Ultimatly, this means nothing as this is the Pope saying it, not the Church.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2014, 03:08:32 pm »
You talk about it as if it were as easy as changing socks, Chewie.  PROTIP: It ain't, and insisting that they should is basically giving the regular atheists a bad name because the trilby associates itself with us despite being a distinctly different breed.

The right thing to do isn't always easy...

To put this in perspective, this is similar to telling a Catholic they should stop funding the RCC, stop following their edicts, and stop calling themselves Roman Catholics in order to stop supporting an international criminal organization. It makes sense to everyone besides the indoctrinated.

In other words, they have to abandon their faith.  Yeah, I'm certain most Christians would take offense to that.

If you seriously take offense to abandoning the vileness in your Bible, you should stop and consider how different you really are from the fundamentalists that point to the same book.
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Offline Random Gal

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2014, 03:13:43 pm »
Ultimatly, this means nothing as this is the Pope saying it, not the Church.

The Pope could fix that problem by declaring he's speaking ex cathedra next time he gives lip service to progressives. That way the Church would have no choice but to accept the changes.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 03:22:24 pm by Random Guy »

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2014, 03:15:34 pm »
You talk about it as if it were as easy as changing socks, Chewie.  PROTIP: It ain't, and insisting that they should is basically giving the regular atheists a bad name because the trilby associates itself with us despite being a distinctly different breed.

The right thing to do isn't always easy...

And what you want others to do isn't always the right thing.

Look at yourself.  You're basically demanding that others conform to your sense of morality.

How the flying fuck are you not acting like a fundie?  Just because you haven't ticked the "religious" checkbox?
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Offline Askold

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2014, 04:58:00 pm »
Ultimatly, this means nothing as this is the Pope saying it, not the Church.

The Pope could fix that problem by declaring he's speaking ex cathedra next time he gives lip service to progressives. That way the Church would have no choice but to accept the changes.

Technically they would have the choice of having another reformation/split in the church. Personally I would like to see the worst fundies break off into their own church and have the pope stay with the "mainstream catholics."

It is very unlikely to happen, but a man can dream...
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Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2014, 07:02:49 pm »
I'd actually like to see that... mostly because of seeing just who's willing to bend and realizing that being a decent mofo is more important than church doctrine.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2014, 10:17:45 pm »
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Pope Francis has waded into the controversial debate over the origins of human life, saying the big bang theory did not contradict the role of a divine creator, but even required it.

Hahahaha no.

I guess expecting the media not to hang on to every word out of Bergoglio's mouth is too much, but here I'm actually disappointed in him*. One of the few things I sort-of expected the Pope to do is to declare the Church as officially hands-off on science. Go full separate magisteria and say "no, we are the Church, we talk souls and morality and all that crap, but science we leave to the scientists". Perhaps not in those exact words.

It's not like there's no precedent for it, their current stance on evolution is about halfway there. And sure, it's massively intellectually dishonest, but it's not like that's news. It's a decent nod to the liberals he always tries to woo, while it won't piss off the conservatives too much since, again, they're already halfway there. Most Catholics have no strong attachment to Creationism*, and those that do are free to go ignoring science and complaining about why there are still monkeys to their hearts' content. It's about as close as it gets to a win-win situation in this game.

But no, the Pope wants to think he has something relevant to say on scientific matters. Well, fuck him. He doesn't.


*Considering how low my expectations of him are, that takes some work.

**Young Earth, at least. Most of them are Old Earth Creationists, but they think they accept evolution, so either way they don't care.
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Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2014, 01:41:26 pm »
OK, Ironchew, here's why you can't edit the Scriptures.

Because most religious people - including me - believe that they were directly written by G-d. I can't change them anymore than Harry Potter fans can edit the books so Harry and Hermione end up together. True, they could publish their own version, but it wouldn't be the original. That's the point.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2014, 02:18:10 pm »
OK, Ironchew, here's why you can't edit the Scriptures.

Oh please. You don't read the "original", and there wasn't even an original since the mostly-agreed-upon texts were compiled from a hodge-podge of competing mythologies, oral histories, and political pronouncements.

Spare me your self-righteous attitude about a book.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2014, 02:30:17 pm »
OK, Ironchew, here's why you can't edit the Scriptures.

Oh please. You don't read the "original", and there wasn't even an original since the mostly-agreed-upon texts were compiled from a hodge-podge of competing mythologies, oral histories, and political pronouncements.

Spare me your self-righteous attitude about a book.

...Says the guy with the biggest self-righteous attitude about a book in this thread.
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Offline Ghoti

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2014, 09:47:41 pm »
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Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: Pope Endorses Evolution and the Big Bang Theory
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2014, 01:13:27 am »
I'll prepare us for the Nine Great Riders of the Church of EMACs, as appointed by his majesty Ironchew, lord of the Church Militant.
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