FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Barbarella on April 15, 2013, 12:29:50 am
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I was reading the comments of various sites concerning the guy who beat his daughters over, depending on the telling, booty-dancing or sneaking out of the house. I'm reading the comments and the majority of commenters are supporting the dad. What scares me is that most don't appear to be goofy trolls. Most are regular people. What's wrong with these people? I don't know what to say. They're either quoting scripture or telling anecdotes about how they were pummeled with god knows what when they were little like it's nothing.
How can so many people be so old-fashioned & backwards?
What frustrates me is that they'll decry the lack of respect & discipline instilled in in today's young & see this guy as a breath of fresh air....as if there were no other way to teach or discipline a kid. They honestly cannot fathom that there are other methods. It's either "beat them" or "spoil them". There is no middle ground. How can people be so backwards & insane?
Can anyone share insight on this? Can all these people be trolls? Are people really this evil? In a normal world with normal people, the majority or at least half would be saying "This guy went too far". But the MAJORITY are COMMENDING this guy!
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I was reading the comments of various sites concerning the guy who beat his daughters over, depending on the telling, booty-dancing or sneaking out of the house. I'm reading the comments and the majority of commenters are supporting the dad. What scares me is that most don't appear to be goofy trolls. Most are regular people. What's wrong with these people? I don't know what to say. They're either quoting scripture or telling anecdotes about how they were pummeled with god knows what when they were little like it's nothing.
How can so many people be so old-fashioned & backwards?
What frustrates me is that they'll decry the lack of respect & discipline instilled in in today's young & see this guy as a breath of fresh air....as if there were no other way to teach or discipline a kid. They honestly cannot fathom that there are other methods. It's either "beat them" or "spoil them". There is no middle ground. How can people be so backwards & insane?
Can anyone share insight on this? Can all these people be trolls? Are people really this evil? In a normal world with normal people, the majority or at least half would be saying "This guy went too far". But the MAJORITY are COMMENDING this guy!
Oh, they're not trolls. This sentiment is seen on my FB often.
And people say pedophiles are the greatest threat to our children. By that I mean I'm pretty sure that most pedophiles at least realize their thoughts aren't okay to suggest practicing.
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Some might be trolls, but I doubt all are. I think that, like they said, that since it happened to them, that it is ok. They don't want to accept the fact that it is not ok when it happened to them or when they do it to their kids. Accepting that it is not ok can bring doubt in to play, and if they hold their parents as being unable to do wrong, it can cause problems.
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I think the people supporting it are too narrow-minded to accept anything besides physical abuse as punishment. That is, they're unable to (or simply don't want to) step outside their own world and see that their parents could've been wrong, that what they faced could be considered abuse. They think they turned out alright, and while they may not be criminals, they're supporting child abuse. Spanking (not necessarily on par with actual beating, but still) has also been linked to aggression, so that could be a contributing factor.
They're probably also thinking back to the 1950s, when spanking was more standard and everyone had a white picket fence with three perfect kids. They associate spanking with what they think was a more prosperous time, where children wore their suits/dresses all the time and picked their mother flowers on the way home from attending Sunday school.
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I received corporal punishment when I was being an obnoxious brat, but I find there's a difference between getting a spanking and...this insanity. I mean, holy shit.
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I received corporal punishment when I was being an obnoxious brat, but I find there's a difference between getting a spanking and...this insanity. I mean, holy shit.
Corporal punishment can mean so many things. And for some parents spanking is the last measure, the people who get loud about defending spanking are the ones who seem to think that it is the only tool for raising kids and must be done all the time.
Seriously, there are a vocal minority of parents who seem to think that "Do not beat your kids within an inch of their lives" is the same as "Do not raise your kids, do not say NO to them, do not set any limits" or something like that.
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I think this stems from the fact that hitting children wasn't outlawed until fairly recently, until which point it was considered a valid, if not normal, form of discipline. Of course, our species seems rather predisposed to using violence first and foremost, anyways. It's simple, anyone can use it, and tends to be effective for a while, especially if the subject is conditioned to accept violence as a legitimate form of punishment.
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The thing is. The MAJORITY of the commenters were like this! Why a majority? Shouldn't it be less?
Also, most of them appeared to be folks of color. I felt like I was in some weird "Black Stereotype" dimension. Are the majority of black parents like this?
What get's me is that the commenters are treating this like some run-of-the-mill spanking. The MAJORITY of commenters! Do only crazy people comment on articles. Where are all the normal commenters? I know there's trolls and stuff but DAMN!
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The thing is. The MAJORITY of the commenters were like this! Why a majority? Shouldn't it be less?
Also, most of them appeared to be folks of color. I felt like I was in some weird "Black Stereotype" dimension. Are the majority of black parents like this?
What get's me is that the commenters are treating this like some run-of-the-mill spanking. The MAJORITY of commenters! Do only crazy people comment on articles. Where are all the normal commenters? I know there's trolls and stuff but DAMN!
Being the target of racism growing up makes you hypersensitive to your kids "stepping out of line," perhaps?
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I'm just dumbfounded that it's a majority of commenters, not the more believable minority or 50-50. Are freaks just more vocal? I refuse to believe that humanity is that messed up. I know there's a lot of bad people & we as a species have a history of nuttiness but I always assumed that most people were good folks.
Am I crazy or does there seem to be more sociopaths popping into the world? Maybe it's the same as always & they're just being noticed more!
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I got corporal punishment as a kid, and, uhhhh...it didn't do a damn bit of good for me. In fact, its probably one of the reasons its so difficult to talk to my parents and so obscenely hard to trust fucking anyone. If your parents hit you under the guise of "teaching you a lesson," then why the hell would anyone else NOT do that? From a child's mind, at least, it makes sense, considering your parents are usually supposed to be the ones you trust the most.
That said, giving a slap on the wrist, be it literal or metaphorical, is usually enough to get most kids in line when they're being asses. Unlike what a lot of our society likes to tell us, kids by and large, aren't completely blank slates with no capability for logical, coherent thought and reason. The times my parents explained shit to me were hundreds of times more effective than when they tried to speak to me with a fucking belt...or cutting board, which incidentally, broke in half the first and only time it was used to spank me.
Some kids, I'm sure, are naturally predisposed to being shitstains, but if you'd bother to actually try and TALK to your kids...ya know, like its the 21st god damned century, many times, they'll understand. This Stone Age "spare the rod, spoil the child" bullshit is as offensive as it is, many times, needless and barbaric. Go ahead, don't spare the rod. Be like this asshole and beat your kids with cables. But don't you dare fucking come crying to me when your kids try to smother you to death in your sleep or poison your coffee. Violence begets violence, motherfuckers.
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I'm just dumbfounded that it's a majority of commenters, not the more believable minority or 50-50. Are freaks just more vocal? I refuse to believe that humanity is that messed up. I know there's a lot of bad people & we as a species have a history of nuttiness but I always assumed that most people were good folks.
Am I crazy or does there seem to be more sociopaths popping into the world? Maybe it's the same as always & they're just being noticed more!
As sleepy said, I think it is a generational issue. I don't know how old the commentators are, but its possible that they grew up where this was perfectly acceptable. They might not know any other form of discipline, or they might think that this is effective. I'm not saying all people who grew up from the 60s/70s back think this way, but until recently, it seems like corporal punishment was preferred. Even today when it's shown that corporal punishment can cause some serious issues regarding violence, trust, etc, there are those that refuse to accept it. Again, it seems like they don't want to attribute anything they or their parents do with being wrong.
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I know. But why a majority? Are all the commenters Baby Boomers & older? Some of them appeared to be younger people.
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Some are probably baby boomers. As for the younger ones, I think it goes back to what I said about them possibly having the notion that their parents can do no wrong. We trust our parents are supposed to look out for our best interest, and if they received corporal punishment, especially similar to what was done in the article, they might think it was ok.
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I guess. I'm just surprised there wasn't an equally large flood of folks telling them otherwise. I guess decent, intelligent, well adjusted people don't do that article-commenting thing.
Can't the good side of humanity be noisier? Say something!
There's a lot of decent folks here. I admit that I for one tend to get upset & write silly stuff. I regret it. However, it's usually in response to the idiot side of humanity.
I see humanity as being dual-natured. Both Rousseau & Hobbes were right in a way. Humanity is capable of the highest good & the highest evil. As far as animals are concerned, we're both the most noble & the most savage, the most intelligent & the most ignorant, the most reasonable & most unreasonable, the most refined & the most crude...and so on...
We can change for the better, we just have to stick to that path.
Sometimes I'm frustrated & impatient. We have come far since the days of medieval times, the old west or whatever & need to smell the roses. Maybe I'll check out "Good News" news websites & get perspective.
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Link to this story so we can judge for ourselves?
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There are other methods of discipline, y'know. Growing up, my parents never had to use corporal punishment on me. They had far more effective methods, like denial of computer privileges.
Besides, while there might be cases where corporal punishment is justified, once they start crying in pain, that's when you stop.
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I think I've been spanked maybe twice my entire life.
Both times involved a brief swat on the butt. Once. And my pride was hurt worse.
The second time was unnecessary and I resented it happening. I don't have any memory of the first time that it happened, only that it had happened.
Honestly, as a kid, the worst punishment was feeling my parent's disapproval of what I had done. I generally accepted punishment because I realized I had done something wrong.
I was a really really weird kid. My father was disappointed that I wasn't mischevious.
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As someone else mentioned, these a lot of these people are under the misconception that spanking and corporal punishment are the only real and effective forms of discipline, and that anyone against it must never discipline their kids at all. It may also be combined with the attitude that every generation seems to have of all generations coming after being worse than their own. It doesn't help if they actually do know parents who refuse to discipline their kids, never saying no and trying to be their kids' friends instead of parents. Both of these extremes don't do kids any favors.
While I think that spanking should be allowed in certain situations, I sometimes feel that using it as the default punishment is a form of lazy parenting. Do these parents just not want to sit down and take the time to seriously think of more creative and effective ways to punish their kids? Hell, I was spanked as a kid, but it wasn't the only method used; I was also stood in the corner, which I hated even more. Some parents do the shame thing where they put their kid's crime on a poster and make them stand in public with it. The point is, there are other ways of making it stick in their minds without beating the shit out of them.
Some parents might do it out of anger because their authority is being challenged by someone who's supposed to be obedient to them. Keep in mind that if this was an adult woman being beaten by a man for not listening, the guy would be in deep shit because this is a horrible thing to do to another person . . . unless that person happens to be your child, in which case it's okay because "they need the guidance and discipline." One tumblr post claimed their dad told them that as long they were still financially dependent on him, he owned them. This was a person getting ready to go to college. Which is another attitude some people have; you own your children. While this attitude might work to an extent when they're young and need you around for everything, this philosophy gets really problematic when the kid hits puberty.
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This is one of the articles on it:
http://www.inquisitr.com/603749/father-indicted-for-beating-daughters-over-twerking-video/
But now, they're saying they have the wrong guy & that guy in the video is not the dad. I'm REALLY getting confused. Mom was the one that reported this whole thing to police. Perhaps one or more of these factors are at play...
1.) Mom's an idiot.
2.) The Cops are idiots.
3.) Mom's doesn't care for her daughters & is using this as an excuse to "do-in" an ex.
4.) The guy in the video is Mom's present boyfriend, Mom's abused & abusive boyfriend made mom "frame" dad (assuming cops are stupid & think all black men look the same).
5.) Same as number 4 but Mom's in on it from the get go because she & the new guy are evil abusive freaks.
6.) The public has this video confused with another case. They may be similar but not related at all.
7.) This is a big perverted hoax or viral campaign or some weird social experiment concerning "Internet Outrage".
Finally, the real story seems that the girls got lashed because they would sneak out of the house & not just the stupid "twerking" dance. Still doesn't warrant this abuse but it would be more serious than goofy booty-shaker dance videos.
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I guess. I'm just surprised there wasn't an equally large flood of folks telling them otherwise. I guess decent, intelligent, well adjusted people don't do that article-commenting thing.
Can't the good side of humanity be noisier? Say something!
There's a lot of decent folks here. I admit that I for one tend to get upset & write silly stuff. I regret it. However, it's usually in response to the idiot side of humanity.
I see humanity as being dual-natured. Both Rousseau & Hobbes were right in a way. Humanity is capable of the highest good & the highest evil. As far as animals are concerned, we're both the most noble & the most savage, the most intelligent & the most ignorant, the most reasonable & most unreasonable, the most refined & the most crude...and so on...
We can change for the better, we just have to stick to that path.
Sometimes I'm frustrated & impatient. We have come far since the days of medieval times, the old west or whatever & need to smell the roses. Maybe I'll check out "Good News" news websites & get perspective.
We're capable of anything on the spectrum of kindness and cruelty. For some people, being kind is a lot harder than being cruel.
I grew up in a family that preached this sort of "discipline." They say they're teaching respect, but what they're really demanding is unquestioning obedience and fear. If you fear them, you don't disobey, and that to them means you respect them. It's a show of power, an alpha establishing dominance.
My paternal great grandfather threw an open pocketknife at my grandmother's head and buried in a cabinet door inches from her face for "backtalk." His wive once knocked one of their daughters completely off the porch and unconscious by striking her in the head with a piece of firewood.
My dad's dad used to throw beer bottles at him and sent him to the hospital a few times for injuries.
My own dad punched me in the mouth when I was three because I was crying. The one time he actually spanked me, he beat me with a grommeted belt until my mother pulled him off and told him he was eating a bullet in his sleep if he ever touched me again. I remember one time I wouldn't eat dinner because my mom made hamburger helper and it always made me nauseous. He picked my up by the throat with one hand and threw me through the closed front door and onto the porch.
I don't think people like this are trying to teach good behavior; they're trying to teach their child their "proper place" in the pecking order.
I'm against striking a child, but I recognize that there may be some circumstances where it comes to that. But in that event, don't EVER hit to hurt. I think a lot of adults forget that children and even teenagers aren't quite as resilient as they are; a blow that might not hurt us much can hurt a whole freaking lot to a younger person. Spank them just enough to get their attention, and then explain to them as clearly as possible why. Why you hit them, why their action was wrong, and why they shouldn't do it again.
Take away something they like, ground them, revoke privileges. These things can work just as well, but so many parents seem to dole out the punishment without explaining the "why." Teaching through pain and anger engenders hatred and resentment in return. Teach your kids the hows and whys of good behavior and you know what? They're less likely to behave badly when you're not around. You're raising a child, not breaking a fucking horse.
Sorry for the rant, this sort of thing just really gets under my skin.
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I guess. I'm just surprised there wasn't an equally large flood of folks telling them otherwise. I guess decent, intelligent, well adjusted people don't do that article-commenting thing.
Can't the good side of humanity be noisier? Say something!
There's a lot of decent folks here. I admit that I for one tend to get upset & write silly stuff. I regret it. However, it's usually in response to the idiot side of humanity.
I see humanity as being dual-natured. Both Rousseau & Hobbes were right in a way. Humanity is capable of the highest good & the highest evil. As far as animals are concerned, we're both the most noble & the most savage, the most intelligent & the most ignorant, the most reasonable & most unreasonable, the most refined & the most crude...and so on...
We can change for the better, we just have to stick to that path.
Sometimes I'm frustrated & impatient. We have come far since the days of medieval times, the old west or whatever & need to smell the roses. Maybe I'll check out "Good News" news websites & get perspective.
We're capable of anything on the spectrum of kindness and cruelty. For some people, being kind is a lot harder than being cruel.
I grew up in a family that preached this sort of "discipline." They say they're teaching respect, but what they're really demanding is unquestioning obedience and fear. If you fear them, you don't disobey, and that to them means you respect them. It's a show of power, an alpha establishing dominance.
My paternal great grandfather threw an open pocketknife at my grandmother's head and buried in a cabinet door inches from her face for "backtalk." His wive once knocked one of their daughters completely off the porch and unconscious by striking her in the head with a piece of firewood.
My dad's dad used to throw beer bottles at him and sent him to the hospital a few times for injuries.
My own dad punched me in the mouth when I was three because I was crying. The one time he actually spanked me, he beat me with a grommeted belt until my mother pulled him off and told him he was eating a bullet in his sleep if he ever touched me again. I remember one time I wouldn't eat dinner because my mom made hamburger helper and it always made me nauseous. He picked my up by the throat with one hand and threw me through the closed front door and onto the porch.
I don't think people like this are trying to teach good behavior; they're trying to teach their child their "proper place" in the pecking order.
I'm against striking a child, but I recognize that there may be some circumstances where it comes to that. But in that event, don't EVER hit to hurt. I think a lot of adults forget that children and even teenagers aren't quite as resilient as they are; a blow that might not hurt us much can hurt a whole freaking lot to a younger person. Spank them just enough to get their attention, and then explain to them as clearly as possible why. Why you hit them, why their action was wrong, and why they shouldn't do it again.
Take away something they like, ground them, revoke privileges. These things can work just as well, but so many parents seem to dole out the punishment without explaining the "why." Teaching through pain and anger engenders hatred and resentment in return. Teach your kids the hows and whys of good behavior and you know what? They're less likely to behave badly when you're not around. You're raising a child, not breaking a fucking horse.
Sorry for the rant, this sort of thing just really gets under my skin.
I'm glad you're breaking the cycle. What a crazy family!
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These people sometimes will show a disgust for dog beating - because it's cruel, the dog cannot understand, and it does not work to correct behavior.....yet, they will ass whomp and back slap the hell out of their kids. But it is Exactly as bad as beating dogs. Even when the kid is old enough to "understand" the "reason" behind the beating. You don't teach a child ethical behavior by performing an obviously Unethical act of a large person bullying a helpless little person. Kids absolutely have a sense of "fair/no fair" from an early age. All a parent does when beating a child is estrange themselves emotionally from the child by outraging and betraying the child's natural love and respect for the parent. Just like a dog will never again fully trust it's owner after a beating.
It's one thing to slap a toddler's butt the second they are about to go run into the street without looking first - to startle the child and command attention while the parent shows/explains the danger. It's quite another thing to use a heavy slap or blow to the body or head of a child many minutes or hours later because the parent discovers a broken household object or crayon marks on the wall.
I'm at the youngest end of the Baby Boomer generation. I grew up under the "Wait til your father gets home" rule of belt whipping on the buttocks. Dad never used the buckle end, at least, and he never whipped hard enough to leave marks or lingering pain. He also clearly resented being under "obligation" to do the whippings in the first place. I mostly remember that I was ashamed of myself for my fuck-ups being the cause of ruining his mood for the entire evening after a long day at work.
I would never advocate that parents do the same. My dad always said he was sorry to have to do it, and that he loved me. Years later, my mom was wracked with guilt over the whole thing being "her fault" for not just using verbal discipline, and instead escalating it with the delayed belt whippings.
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Yeah, I was going to post something about this. Here's the top rated comment on one of the videos.
This type of "beating" saved me from killing one of you, robbing you in broad daylight, raping your daughters, and showed me as a young man the boundaries of my fucked up behavior. This man deserves more than your cowardice expose'. I salute Black men who are still men and struggle to be a part of raising their children. Fuck the world's standards. Black standards are what kept the Black community intact through slavery.Now look at us..
For of all, racist much? I'm sure not all black people beat their kids like that.
Second of all, FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR PHILOSOPHY. People don't need to be raised by authoritarian parents to not be assholes. If anything the people who were beaten like that turn out to be assholes who continue the cycle. People aren't pussies just because they don't like the idea of using physical force and intimidation to gain "respect". That's a fucking outdated belief that needs to go the way of the dinosaur.
I am sick of this macho conservative Christian bullshit. Beating little girls doesn't make someone a man, it makes them this. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CompleteMonster)
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First of all, I don't agree with how the father handled this as he spanked them in anger, but, to be honest, I think that the girls should have received some sort of corporal punishment as they were basically dancing in a very sexual, suggestive manner and putting it on the Internet. Perhaps the dad should have spanked them with his hand and then talk to them as to why they shouldn't do that. I would tell them about pedophiles, cyberbullying, crazy psychos that might track them down, etc. Then they should understand the explanation behind the spanking.
Just taking away toys, electronic devices, TV, other privileges and groundings are not really working that much as we have a whole new generation of kids growing up with a high self-entitlement complex, narcissistic complex when dealing with the Internet, (probably one of the reasons why these girls did what they did.) no respect for self or others (especially with older people) etc. Basically kids have become like wild brats.
Sorry but that's how I view it. I am not saying that spanking is the only answer as it is more of lack of discipline itself.
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First of all, I don't agree with how the father handled this as he spanked them in anger, but, to be honest, I think that the girls should have received some sort of corporal punishment as they were basically dancing in a very sexual, suggestive manner and putting it on the Internet. Perhaps the dad should have spanked them with his hand and then talk to them as to why they shouldn't do that. I would tell them about pedophiles, cyberbullying, crazy psychos that might track them down, etc. Then they should understand the explanation behind the spanking.
Just taking away toys, electronic devices, TV, other privileges and groundings are not really working that much as we have a whole new generation of kids growing up with a high self-entitlement complex, narcissistic complex when dealing with the Internet, (probably one of the reasons why these girls did what they did.) no respect for self or others (especially with older people) etc. Basically kids have become like wild brats.
Sorry but that's how I view it. I am not saying that spanking is the only answer as it is more of lack of discipline itself.
Honestly, there's two possible parenting types involved: Extreme authoritarian, or total inconsistency (today my kids don't exist, tomorrow I'm their vengeful god, next week we're all best friends...)
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And people say pedophiles are the greatest threat to our children. By that I mean I'm pretty sure that most pedophiles at least realize their thoughts aren't okay to suggest practicing.
A lot of the people who shouted out that they were thankful for being beaten when they were small and that the government should butt out of the cable-whipping fathers business are exactly the same sort of people who say that pederasts should be shot.
Completely missing the point that if you let the government "butt out" of parent's abusing their kids you create a fucking pederast heaven.
Yeah, I read that article and lots of the commenters really did go on about how they were thankful that they were beaten within an inch of their lives when they were kids!
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I do have a story to relate about a kid for whom discipline is...negligible, at best, and when it does occur, its always anger and no explanation. My eldest cousin's first son, Eli, is...I dunno, 6 now, maybe 7. He's been almost entirely raised by his (and my) grandmother, because his mother left him entirely to his father so she could move to Chicago to party til she dies of liver failure, and his father is a consummate lecher with multiple, untreated social diseases and a complete disregard for anyone that isn't him.
Because of this, the son, Eli, has no respect for anyone. He has literally spit on my brother, an act which elicited a very swift, single smack to the dome, a lecture on fucking respect, and being sent to his room and not allowed to come out for more than meals, something with which my uncle (pretty much is only real father figure) agreed. He's been sent home multiple times from school due to disciplinary problems, and he is the archetypal spoiled bratty half-pint who thinks they rule the roost.
When shit gets extreme, like spitting on people or trying to punch them in the nuts (something he also tried on my brother, which got the same reaction above), yeah, smacking them once is, if ya ask me, alright, so long as you also take the time to lecture them on why that shit isn't okay, like my brother did. My bro may be an annoying bastard, at times, but I have almost no doubt in my mind that the difference between him as a father and my cousin would be like night and fucking day. Why? My bro knows how to be authoritative, without being an authoritarian. He's got very clear rules and standards, and knows how to enforce them appropriately. Beating your kid half to death with electrical cable is never fucking appropriate.
This is what happens when you have a completely black-and-white view on discipline: either you're a completely monstrous authoritarian dictator, or you're a pussy. That's not how shit is, and people should fuckin learn that. Give your kids freedom, definitely, but give them structures, standards, and rules that are clear and easy to understand, and are evenly enforced. How some people don't get that is, quite frankly, fucking beyond me.
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I read those comments as well.
It's always interesting (well, sickening) when you see the ones that state how they got it worse when they misbehaved, and that it somehow justifies this. I read one from one guy saying his dad beat him with 2x4's and forced him to hold a cement block over his head, stating that although he didn't agree with his dad's brand of discipline, the girls should count themselves lucky.
Then you have all the self-righteous who justify this abuse with verses from Psalms and 'spare the rod spoil the child'.
I do agree twerking is something that requires serious attention, and I feel it makes this case different from the one about the judge who beat his daughter with a belt for downloading software off the internet. However, I've always seen beating with the belt as child abuse, and watching this video and the one with the judge only root me even stronger in that viewpoint.
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I found this article that has an embedded video of the whipping:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/05/graphic-dad-brutally-whips-daughters-as-punishment-for-twerking-video/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/05/graphic-dad-brutally-whips-daughters-as-punishment-for-twerking-video/)
Beware of the comments though.
Also I found a video on Youtube of what the girls were doing before they were punished and quite honestly, if I had a daughter or daughters and I caught them "twerking" and uploading it up on the INTERNET, I would probably whip them myself. This twerk dance is highly sexually suggestive and these girls had no business doing it to upload to the Internet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ50aztFW0o
Just watch the first two minutes because it actually is a man talking about what happened.
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Also I found a video on Youtube of what the girls were doing before they were punished and quite honestly, if I had a daughter or daughters and I caught them "twerking" and uploading it up on the INTERNET, I would probably whip them myself. This twerk dance is highly sexually suggestive and these girls had no business doing it to upload to the Internet:
They clearly thought it was hilarious. Hell, if they're anything at all like the (usually black) girls dancing around the nightclubs I've been to (not to mention EVERY school dance I attended from junior high on...) it's just the same dance that everyone does (if you're cool). Their parents should have taught them appropriate behavior and so on (especially where the internet is concerned!) way before this, and leaving welts and open wounds on their legs is no substitute for so doing.
(and apparently the 'real reason' for the beating is that they snuck out of the house. Well, if that's what passes for family discipline then no shit Sherlock, of course they're going to sneak!)
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I am not entirely against corporal punishment of children. I think that an occasional smack on the bum, particularly when the child is young to prevent them hurting themselves or others can be appropriate. However you should never use anything other than an open hand or strike anywhere other than the bottom (no face etc).
But once the child is old enough to be communicated with, as these girls clearly were given they could use the internet and film themselves etc, you should no longer resort to corporal punishment.
Certainly in no circumstances at any time should you strike your child (or anyones) with a belt, wire, strap, cane or any other such thing. If you do it is pretty clear that you aren't trying to discipline you are trying to hurt.
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Also I found a video on Youtube of what the girls were doing before they were punished and quite honestly, if I had a daughter or daughters and I caught them "twerking" and uploading it up on the INTERNET, I would probably whip them myself. This twerk dance is highly sexually suggestive and these girls had no business doing it to upload to the Internet:
They clearly thought it was hilarious. Hell, if they're anything at all like the (usually black) girls dancing around the nightclubs I've been to (not to mention EVERY school dance I attended from junior high on...) it's just the same dance that everyone does (if you're cool). Their parents should have taught them appropriate behavior and so on (especially where the internet is concerned!) way before this, and leaving welts and open wounds on their legs is no substitute for so doing.
(and apparently the 'real reason' for the beating is that they snuck out of the house. Well, if that's what passes for family discipline then no shit Sherlock, of course they're going to sneak!)
I agree with this, since twerking is pretty common for teenagers to do. Even if it weren't it wouldn't be a reason to punish them like that. Just explain why it's wrong, because X,Y, and Z.
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I have a few thoughts I'd like to share with the group. Most of this is just my personal beliefs, so feel free to disagree.
First of all, I have always felt Daddy isn't just a title I got at the hospital when Mrs. Rookie gave birth to a child. It's a very demanding 24/7 job that I will be doing until eventually I keel over (or even beyond if I do it right). You have to work at being a good parent every day, just sharing (or providing) a roof isn't enough. And the job starts a few months before birth. You can't be distant and then years later decide you want to be Daddy and respected and all.
I don't spank. I was spanked as a child a few times, but I don't spank mine for a few reasons. First and foremost, I believe my hands should be about love and not anger. Second, I think I am doing a pretty good job without spanking because my kids (all five of them when you adjust for ages) are pretty well behaved. When they do good, I praise them. Actually, I praise them in front of other siblings and grown-ups. Things they do wrong, I'll pull them aside and explain what it was and why. I don't spank but I do punish. The offending child might have to sit in a chair and watch the other siblings play. I've donated toys that weren't cleaned up. Things like that. It comes from taking the time to get to know the kids individually, learning what motivates them and what they respond to.
Something I realized quickly was not every hill is worth dying for. My kids, all, five of them, are different. They are different from me, Mrs. Rookie, and from each other. Each has their own unique tastes, likes, dislikes, well you know. I learned that sometimes you just have to let them be them. They have that freedom. And I've found that because they have age appropriate control over a decent portion of their day, they are a lot more willing to follow the rules. My three year old wants to go around the house in a swimsuit, leggings, tutu, and fairy wings. Whatever. But she knows she's changing before we go anywhere.
People brought up a smack on a bum or slap on a wrist to stop harmful behavior (running into the street, going after a hot pan on the stove). I think you really can't compare that to spanking. Spanking is a punishment for past behavior. The swat or slap is almost a gut reaction to prevent future behavior. The times I have slapped my kids' hands away from electrical outlets or hot stoves, I did it before I realized I did it. It was about moving the hand away from danger as quickly as possible rather than punishing.
But anyways, I do these things and more in the hopes that if I did (am doing) my job right, I won't be in this position later in life. That my kids will know what is acceptable behavior and where the line is. And, just as importantly, why the line is there inthe first place.