Author Topic: Motocycles and abortion!  (Read 2910 times)

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Offline Commissar Kaz

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Motocycles and abortion!
« on: July 13, 2013, 08:42:58 am »
What completely related topics!

Quote
The North Carolina House passed a controversial bill Thursday, 74-41. The bill accomplishes two otherwise unrelated goals: it restricts access to abortion, and increases safety for motorcyclists.

The bill would place new requirements on women’s health clinics that could make it difficult for many of them to stay open, and would allow the state’s health department to create temporary rules for North Carolina’s abortion clinics as it sees fit. The bill also prohibits government-administered insurance plans (including the Affordable Care Act) to pay for abortions and would require a doctor to be present when a patient is administered abortion-inducing drugs.

I really don't know how to respond to this, other than the urge to take a cheesegrater to their faces.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2013, 09:17:49 am »
This seems stupid yet smart at the same time. It gets shit done, at least, but it's also getting bad shit done.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2013, 10:34:04 am »
It also says a lot about priorities. "Sure I am willing to make a law that goes against women's rights and makes abortion and pregnancy in general costlier and more dangerous... As long as motorcycling laws are adjusted at the same time. I mean who care's what happens to some women as long as my motorcycle needs are satisfied."
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Offline mythbuster43

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 06:01:29 pm »
It also says a lot about priorities. "Sure I am willing to make a law that goes against women's rights and makes abortion and pregnancy in general costlier and more dangerous... As long as motorcycling laws are adjusted at the same time. I mean who care's what happens to some women as long as my motorcycle needs are satisfied."

I think this law is a perfect example of shoehorning.

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 11:50:25 pm »
It also says a lot about priorities. "Sure I am willing to make a law that goes against women's rights and makes abortion and pregnancy in general costlier and more dangerous... As long as motorcycling laws are adjusted at the same time. I mean who care's what happens to some women as long as my motorcycle needs are satisfied."

I think this law is a perfect example of shoehorning.

Pretty much. Why, exactly, isn't it illegal to attach unrelated crap onto bills?
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 01:02:13 am »
It also says a lot about priorities. "Sure I am willing to make a law that goes against women's rights and makes abortion and pregnancy in general costlier and more dangerous... As long as motorcycling laws are adjusted at the same time. I mean who care's what happens to some women as long as my motorcycle needs are satisfied."

I think this law is a perfect example of shoehorning.

Pretty much. Why, exactly, isn't it illegal to attach unrelated crap onto bills?

Basically because the legislature has an old, old right to legislate about whatever the hell it wants. (In the British system, the various Houses of Parliament always introduce a pro forma bill before considering the Speech from the Throne to remind the monarch that while she might have convened Parliament, they can consider any matter they want, not just the monarch's agenda.)
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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2013, 01:32:09 am »
It also says a lot about priorities. "Sure I am willing to make a law that goes against women's rights and makes abortion and pregnancy in general costlier and more dangerous... As long as motorcycling laws are adjusted at the same time. I mean who care's what happens to some women as long as my motorcycle needs are satisfied."

I think this law is a perfect example of shoehorning.

Pretty much. Why, exactly, isn't it illegal to attach unrelated crap onto bills?

Basically because the legislature has an old, old right to legislate about whatever the hell it wants. (In the British system, the various Houses of Parliament always introduce a pro forma bill before considering the Speech from the Throne to remind the monarch that while she might have convened Parliament, they can consider any matter they want, not just the monarch's agenda.)

But why does that mean they can tie two completely unrelated things together inseparably? Legislate whatever you want, but do it one thing at a time.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2013, 01:48:50 am »
It also says a lot about priorities. "Sure I am willing to make a law that goes against women's rights and makes abortion and pregnancy in general costlier and more dangerous... As long as motorcycling laws are adjusted at the same time. I mean who care's what happens to some women as long as my motorcycle needs are satisfied."

I think this law is a perfect example of shoehorning.

Pretty much. Why, exactly, isn't it illegal to attach unrelated crap onto bills?

Basically because the legislature has an old, old right to legislate about whatever the hell it wants. (In the British system, the various Houses of Parliament always introduce a pro forma bill before considering the Speech from the Throne to remind the monarch that while she might have convened Parliament, they can consider any matter they want, not just the monarch's agenda.)

But why does that mean they can tie two completely unrelated things together inseparably? Legislate whatever you want, but do it one thing at a time.

Basically, the legislature has to be able to consider and pass or reject whatever bill it wants, no matter what that bill contains. Courts can later strike parts of it down, and the executive can veto it (or parts of it, depending on the locale), but it's getting into a legal mess to determine what bills can and cannot be considered if someone (and what someone is that?) has to determine what's "related" and "unrelated".

(I should note for fairness' sake that the Parliament Act 1911 in the United Kingdom does have a provision for the Lords to be unable to overly delay money bills, where the Speaker of the House of Commons certifies what bills are money bills or not--basically, they have to have nothing at all about anything other than appropriations. However, the Speaker of the House is a nonpartisan figure, to the point where s/he is traditionally unopposed in elections.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2013, 06:15:37 pm »
It almost sounds like they shoved one into the other intentionally: anyone who fought the bill in the name of women's health would be fighting against safety for motorcyclists.

You can get parts of a bill struck down later, yes. But it's a legal kerfuffle that can take ages even if the law is obviously illegal as long as enough people in charge don't care about slapping it down.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2013, 01:29:24 am »
So, what were the safety regs? Because if it's a helmet law for adults, congratulations, I hate this entire bill. Not because I don't support wearing helmets, but because I think it should be illegal for adults to do suicidally stupid shit. It's also why I'm not a fan of seatbelt laws for adults. I would never not wear one. I'd never suggest someone shouldn't. I'd call anyone who didn't an idiot. I just don't think we need to fine people for putting their stupid asses at risk.
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Offline anti-nonsense

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2013, 03:35:00 am »
problem is, these people have family and friends who will be hurt if they get their dumb asses killed, some of who will probably be intelligent productive members of society, or children who shouldn't have to deal with the fallout from a preventable untimely death.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Motocycles and abortion!
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2013, 03:53:23 am »
problem is, these people have family and friends who will be hurt if they get their dumb asses killed, some of who will probably be intelligent productive members of society, or children who shouldn't have to deal with the fallout from a preventable untimely death.
Yeah, I understand, and that does make sense. I just have trouble being okay with banning adults from doing stupid shit to themselves. I place high value on the freedom of people to do what they want if it's not going to hurt others, even if it's reckless and stupid for them to do it.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
 - Trent Reznor, Down In It

Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.