Author Topic: World War One Aniversary  (Read 5128 times)

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Offline Lt. Fred

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World War One Aniversary
« on: June 26, 2014, 05:12:23 am »
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What do we think? What does everyone think of the anniversary?
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Offline dpareja

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 05:47:26 am »
A war that proved the fragility and futility of the intricate system of treaties that were supposed to keep the peace in Europe and instead led to countries finding any excuse they could to get into the conflict, and was the second-last flare-up in the centuries-long European civil war.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 07:28:23 am »
It was truly the war that changed everything.

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 07:36:01 am »
Just think, if Haig hadn't taken four years to figure out the Rolling Barrage or Box Barrage, there could've been far far FAR less lives wasted on suicidal charges across no-man's land.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 08:29:03 am »
Just think, if Haig hadn't taken four years to figure out the Rolling Barrage or Box Barrage, there could've been far far FAR less lives wasted on suicidal charges across no-man's land.

Actually, the British used at least some of the sophisticated artillery tactics it took them three years to master as early as Neuve Chapelle (in 1915). Part of the problem was Haig's stupid obsession with attack over broken ground.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2014, 08:57:58 am »
Just think, if Haig hadn't taken four years to figure out the Rolling Barrage or Box Barrage, there could've been far far FAR less lives wasted on suicidal charges across no-man's land.

Actually, the British used at least some of the sophisticated artillery tactics it took them three years to master as early as Neuve Chapelle (in 1915). Part of the problem was Haig's stupid obsession with attack over broken ground.

Either way, their ineptitude got a lot of people needlessly killed.

Offline Askold

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2014, 10:02:30 am »
Just think, if Haig hadn't taken four years to figure out the Rolling Barrage or Box Barrage, there could've been far far FAR less lives wasted on suicidal charges across no-man's land.

Actually, the British used at least some of the sophisticated artillery tactics it took them three years to master as early as Neuve Chapelle (in 1915). Part of the problem was Haig's stupid obsession with attack over broken ground.

Either way, their ineptitude got a lot of people needlessly killed.

Before the battle of Somme the British troops were promised that the artillery will destroy the German defenses. Commander of the VIII:th Army Group Hunter-Weston told his troops, just before the attack, that the artillery has blown all the barb wire to smitheriins and they can just walk across the no man's land. Those at the front could just take a look and see that the barb wires were practically unharmed and that their commander is lying to them.

Then again, Hunter-Weston also made the order to stop the heavy artillery barrage 10 minutes before the troops crossed the line and rest of the support fire 2 minutes before that cost many British lives as well. The Germans were warned of the attack by the barrage and they had plenty of time to get out of their bunkers and ready their weapons. His Army Group lost 14'000 men that day and he defended himself by claiming that the artillery had failed him by not cutting the wires and ending the barrage too soon. (which, if you read the previous sentence you may notice, only happened because HE specifically ordered for it.)
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2014, 07:16:48 pm »
Just think, if Haig hadn't taken four years to figure out the Rolling Barrage or Box Barrage, there could've been far far FAR less lives wasted on suicidal charges across no-man's land.

Actually, the British used at least some of the sophisticated artillery tactics it took them three years to master as early as Neuve Chapelle (in 1915). Part of the problem was Haig's stupid obsession with attack over broken ground.

Either way, their ineptitude got a lot of people needlessly killed.

Before the battle of Somme the British troops were promised that the artillery will destroy the German defenses.

This was basically Hague's idea, and a stupid one at that. His subordinate, Rawlinson, had none of it. The reason they were so successful at Neuve Chapelle, he said, was that they used way more artillery (double or triple) and all at once. The barrage at Chapelle lasted about an hour, not a week. In that hour they fired double the tonnage/yard as in the week at the Somme. Chapelle also had way less wire, because the Germans were taken by surprise - and they had no time to organise a counter-attack until the British had already taken their positions.

This "bite and hold" strategy was never really tried, but probably would have won the war by 1917. If you kill a German for every Brit you lose on the attack, while taking a bit of land to maintain morale, the Germans just lose. Eventually the Germans would have organised defence in depth, but by that point the British would have had tanks to crush all those forward MGs. Instead they attacked at Paschendale and very nearly lost.

Also, the British might have made a determined corps-strength attack before July 1st and saved the French army.

Quote
Commander of the VIII:th Army Group Hunter-Weston told his troops, just before the attack, that the artillery has blown all the barb wire to smitheriins and they can just walk across the no man's land.

Total lunacy. If only Hague had worse connections and less political nous. He married Henretta Jamieson, so at least his family made good whiskey (his family also owned scotch distilleries, so this was truly a marriage made in heaven).

Also, Franz Ferdinand has one day to live.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 07:18:19 pm by Lt. Fred »
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

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-FDR

Offline Ironchew

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2014, 09:00:52 pm »
What do we think?

World War I was an atrocious war that showcased the worst of early 20th century killing technology up against clueless and vain leaders. It should have brought the belligerence of nationalism and military worship to an end; World War II surpassed it in atrocity, unfortunately, because we didn't learn that lesson the first time around.

I think of the world wars when I hear "God bless America!", "Support our troops!", etc. Europe's war culture ended badly for them and we seem to be headed down that same track. The only possible benefit I can see coming from a hypothetical WWIII is that there won't be much religious fervor in the United States; why believe God protects your country when someone else destroyed it?

What does everyone think of the anniversary?

I'll let someone from 1914 chime in:

"We cannot settle the problem, and I venture the prophecy that perhaps a century from now this same question may be brought before some future society and discussed very much as it is tonight." - Dr. Hirst (on abortion -- what, you can't expect him to accurately forecast what will be on-topic in 100 years. He tried his best.)
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 09:18:48 pm »
You exaggerate, Ironchew.  Back in the early 20th Century, Europe thought war was glorious.  21st Century America does not.  And to say that our current military involvement is comparable to the horrors of World War I is ludicrous.  We have suffered far fewer casualties in our current wars than we did during World War I.

Also, most of Europe had learned its lesson about war.  The problem was that the fascists didn't.

And to say that shows of patriotism are equivalent to the rampant jingoism before World War I is ridiculous.

In any case, I think people would cling to religion even more in the aftermath of a hypothetical World War III.  When things are terrible, it's common for people to look to a higher power.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2014, 12:09:26 am »
You exaggerate, Ironchew.  Back in the early 20th Century, Europe thought war was glorious.  21st Century America does not.

We don't?  News to me.
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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2014, 12:33:21 am »
You exaggerate, Ironchew.  Back in the early 20th Century, Europe thought war was glorious.  21st Century America does not.

We don't?  News to me.

Not quite the same. The 1914 European attitude was that fighting as an actual soldier was glorious and all around fantastic. When the war first kicked off, recruiters in pretty much every participating country were swamped with fresh cannon fodder. The modern American attitude, on the other hand, is more along the lines of "war is great, as long as I get to stay right the hell away from it".

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2014, 01:05:33 am »
You exaggerate, Ironchew.  Back in the early 20th Century, Europe thought war was glorious.  21st Century America does not.

We don't?  News to me.

Not quite the same. The 1914 European attitude was that fighting as an actual soldier was glorious and all around fantastic. When the war first kicked off, recruiters in pretty much every participating country were swamped with fresh cannon fodder. The modern American attitude, on the other hand, is more along the lines of "war is great, as long as I get to stay right the hell away from it".

Good point.

Us Americans tend to love to talk about how patriotic we are and how our military is glorious, but would shit our pants if we were ever, say, drafted for the first time in a long time.

Incidentally, when I was typing that sentence, I wasn't intending to refer to a politician's scandal (who was it again, Mitt Romney?) but now that I realize I did I'm standing by it.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2014, 01:08:15 am »
War Is Glorious As Long As You Are A General is also a pass time in America.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: World War One Aniversary
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 01:55:55 am »
Also, Orwell's desire has finally come true. Through the use of nuclear weapons, the very first casualty of WW3 would be the person who started it. Therefore, it never will. Leaders only start conflicts if they believe they will wind up ahead.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR