Israel starts more apartheid, this time against Africans

[gyeonghwa]

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-put-thousands-africans-detention-camp-184419459.html

Israel's interior minister said on Friday he hoped to soon start moving tens of thousands of illegal African migrants from Tel Aviv and elsewhere to a detention camp being built and a planned "tent city."
An Israeli court cleared the way on Thursday for the deportation of an estimated 1,500 South Sudanese, after ruling that their lives were no longer threatened in their homeland.
Interior Minister Eli Yishai told public radio 40,000 Sudanese and Eritreans were next in his sights.
"There are still about 15,000 from north Sudan and some 35,000 from Eritrea," he said. "I am not allowed to get them out at the moment."
He said he expected legal obstacles would be removed and that the government was also offering a grant to those prepared to leave voluntarily.
"They are close to being expelled either willingly or against their will," he said. "This is a number that threatens the Jewish identity."

Um isn't that the very definition of ethnic cleansing?

[Art Vandelay]

Um isn't that the very definition of ethnic cleansing?

Since they're not trying to get rid of Africans, but rather trying to deport illegal immigrants, no. No it is not.

[largeham]

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/kristallnacht-20-courtesy-of-start-up.html

This doesn't just include illegal immigrants but refugees as well.

[Fpqxz]

I'm no fan of the Israeli government, but comparing removal of illegal immigrants to "apartheid" and "ethnic cleansing" is pure hyperbole.

[gyeonghwa]

Well I admit I jumped the gun on ethnic cleansing (though I think the fact that hey are removing them for race/ethnic reason is attempting the same thing), but tell me how it isn't apartheid? They socially and politically discriminate against Arabs, Ethiopian Jews, Yemeni Jews, Africans almost completely for ethnic reasons. They subject Palestinians into slums and give them sub-par services. There are those that would hunt down Jewish women to enter relationships with Arab men. Apartheid is a very apt description of Israel.

[Fpqxz]

Well I admit I jumped the gun on ethnic cleansing (though I think the fact that hey are removing them for race/ethnic reason is attempting the same thing), but tell me how it isn't apartheid? They socially and politically discriminate against Arabs, Ethiopian Jews, Yemeni Jews, Africans almost completely for ethnic reasons. They subject Palestinians into slums and give them sub-par services. There are those that would hunt down Jewish women to enter relationships with Arab men. Apartheid is a very apt description of Israel.

What you are talking about is not the same thing as removal of illegal immigrants.

I'm not going to defend how the Israeli government treats Arabs or other ethnicities.

[gyeonghwa]

Umm, Largeham states some of them are refugee not illegal immigrant. (Furthermore I deplore the term illegal immigrant because it is racially motivated.) And anyways how is that Africans are considered illegal immigrants but Israeli occupying Gaza isn't? That's why I consider the move as Apartheid. It's separating people based on race.

[Meshakhad]

Apartheid? No. Bad? Yes.

One of the big problems with the State of Israel is that because Israel itself has no history of systematic racial segregation, they aren't nearly as sensitive to discrimination when it does happen. To use a metaphor, imagine racial discrimination as a disease. The United States had a rather severe case about sixty years ago, and as a result, we are now more sensitive to it. Have we purged racism from our society? No. But we do try very hard to shut it down. Israel, on the other hand, lacks that history. And while you'd think that being subject to so much discrimination throughout history would make Jews sensitive, it's not so easy to recognize it when you're the perpetrator.

[kefkaownsall]

Apartheid? No. Bad? Yes.

One of the big problems with the State of Israel is that because Israel itself has no history of systematic racial segregation, they aren't nearly as sensitive to discrimination when it does happen. To use a metaphor, imagine racial discrimination as a disease. The United States had a rather severe case about sixty years ago, and as a result, we are now more sensitive to it. Have we purged racism from our society? No. But we do try very hard to shut it down. Israel, on the other hand, lacks that history. And while you'd think that being subject to so much discrimination throughout history would make Jews sensitive, it's not so easy to recognize it when you're the perpetrator.

See Mugabe's Zimbabwe

[Lt. Fred]

Not all racial discrimination is apartheid. Though I would agree that the West Bank/Gaza stuff is getting there.

[Auri-El]

How is "illegal immigrant" a racial term? It just means someone who is in a foreign country without a visa/green card/whatever. A white American who moves to France without a visa would be an illegal immigrant, too.

[booley]

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-put-thousands-africans-detention-camp-184419459.html

Israel's interior minister said on Friday he hoped to soon start moving tens of thousands of illegal African migrants from Tel Aviv and elsewhere to a detention camp being built and a planned "tent city."
An Israeli court cleared the way on Thursday for the deportation of an estimated 1,500 South Sudanese, after ruling that their lives were no longer threatened in their homeland.
Interior Minister Eli Yishai told public radio 40,000 Sudanese and Eritreans were next in his sights.
"There are still about 15,000 from north Sudan and some 35,000 from Eritrea," he said. "I am not allowed to get them out at the moment."
He said he expected legal obstacles would be removed and that the government was also offering a grant to those prepared to leave voluntarily.
"They are close to being expelled either willingly or against their will," he said. "This is a number that threatens the Jewish identity."

Um isn't that the very definition of ethnic cleansing?

I recall someone once pointing out that the future Israel has three possibilities:

An open and Free Country.  A Democracy.  A Jewish State.

Unfortunately It can only be two of those things

[gyeonghwa]

How is "illegal immigrant" a racial term? It just means someone who is in a foreign country without a visa/green card/whatever. A white American who moves to France without a visa would be an illegal immigrant, too.

That is technically true, but in political discourse it most definitely refer to "people from that country/with that skin color that we don't like". By and large anti-Immigration discourse in the US, for example, target Mexicans while ignoring illegal immigration for places like Korea or Eastern Europe.  Socially, illegal immigrant is a racialized term. It doesn't need to be but it is.

[Fpqxz]

How is "illegal immigrant" a racial term? It just means someone who is in a foreign country without a visa/green card/whatever. A white American who moves to France without a visa would be an illegal immigrant, too.

That is technically true, but in political discourse it most definitely refer to "people from that country/with that skin color that we don't like". By and large anti-Immigration discourse in the US, for example, target Mexicans while ignoring illegal immigration for places like Korea or Eastern Europe.  Socially, illegal immigrant is a racialized term. It doesn't need to be but it is.

That's because Mexicans make up the largest proportion of illegal immigrants (though Asians/Eastern Europeans come close).

Note also that the Mexican government is not very tolerant of illegal immigrants in their own country, even if they are of similar ethnic and religious makeup (most of them are from Central & South America).

[Meshakhad]

Apartheid? No. Bad? Yes.

One of the big problems with the State of Israel is that because Israel itself has no history of systematic racial segregation, they aren't nearly as sensitive to discrimination when it does happen. To use a metaphor, imagine racial discrimination as a disease. The United States had a rather severe case about sixty years ago, and as a result, we are now more sensitive to it. Have we purged racism from our society? No. But we do try very hard to shut it down. Israel, on the other hand, lacks that history. And while you'd think that being subject to so much discrimination throughout history would make Jews sensitive, it's not so easy to recognize it when you're the perpetrator.

See Mugabe's Zimbabwe

A fair comparison, although Mugabe has done far worse. For instance, Israel's rulers don't engage in voter suppression, nor do they try to murder their political opponents.

Also, I'd like to address the frequent charges of racism against Israel, based on its treatment of the Palestinians. While there is a racist element, the principle issue that makes the Palestinian case far different from, say, Mugabe's treatment of whites, or recent European discrimination against Roma, is that the Palestinians are not Israelis, nor do they wish to be. I am not saying that this excuses Israeli abuses - it generally doesn't - but it makes the issue more complicated than simple racism.