Author Topic: TV Shows  (Read 139546 times)

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Art Vandelay

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #360 on: January 27, 2014, 09:15:53 pm »
I haven't watched The Simpsons since before Flanders got, well, Flanderized. On a scale of Citizen Kane to The Brown Bunny, how bad was it?
Well, the title of the episode was "YOLO". I feel that's all that needs to be said.

Offline Søren

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #361 on: January 28, 2014, 02:17:44 am »
Everybody here should watch Sean Saves The World

Its one of those sitcoms determined to make every line funny. But fails on every level
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #362 on: January 28, 2014, 09:57:57 am »
If I wanted to check out a certain show, I'd basically wait til the DVDs come out and pretend the last decent season was the last season.

I'm not into Family Guy and have no interest in watching it at all BUT, if I did want to watch it, I'd watch the stuff before it was cancelled the first time, when the characters were more sympathetic; The dumb but somewhat lovable dad, long-suffering wife, the evil mastermind baby, the voice-of-reason dog, the two teens.

There were only three REAL seasons of Spongebob Squarepants. The Spongebob movie was the finale. Anything after is not fully canonical. The creators even said so.

Likewise, with classic TV shows, for me All In The Family REALLY ended when Gloria & Mike moved away. The last season of Welcome Back Kotter never happened. M*A*S*H was best as a comedy.

I'm not into these movies but, to me, there were only 2 Alien films, one Planet of the Apes (Earth was never destroyed, Zira & Cornelius never went back in time & died, Zira & Cornelius birthing the whole ape planet thing makes my head explode & I'd like to think that Taylor & Nova became a new 'Adam & Eve', birthed kids, started humanity over with & vowed to do it right this time. The whole POTA saga is one big pessimistic bummer, IMHO), Halloween ended with Laurie killing Michel Myers once and for all in Halloween 2.0, etc.

There were also three Star Wars films (Ep. 4-6) & only two Poltergeist films.

And Metroid Other M never happened, no matter what that Sakamoto guy says! Samus is a strong, feminist badass heroine who's independent, not a needy bimbo in a cool supersuit who needs the "authorization" from some controlling jerk commander guy for everything & who questions nothing! The Samus/Adam relationship is like an emotionally controlling, manipulative domestic relationship.

Lets just say, I take "Canon/Fanon Discontinuity" very seriously. This is why I like the idea of fanfics, you can rewrite the story to your liking.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 10:06:54 am by SpukiKitty »

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #363 on: January 28, 2014, 11:17:12 am »
My entire experience with Other M is watching slowbeef and Diabetus comment over all of the cutscenes. It's enough to make me utterly disinterested in the game; I'm no Metroid fan (I'll be the first to admit that most classic games do nothing for me), but that shit was just awful.
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Offline Alehksunos

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #364 on: January 28, 2014, 03:42:04 pm »
I know, this is off topic, but is there a single person who even likes Other M? Who isn't Tom Preston (you know, that lousy comic artist whose attitude is equally rotten)?

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #365 on: January 28, 2014, 04:45:52 pm »
I know, this is off topic, but is there a single person who even likes Other M? Who isn't Tom Preston (you know, that lousy comic artist whose attitude is equally rotten)?

[rant]
I highly doubt that there is anyone who thinks it is anything higher than a 6/10.

The gameplay didn't annoy me that much, despite being incredibly linear (even more so than Fusion, but that game got away with it because it was actually a really good game) but holy fuck did the writing infuriate me, it's a impressive feat that they managed to ruin a character that wasn't actually given much characterization over the past games in the series. Lets take the scene when you meet Ridley for the first time in the game. Samus immediatly has an emotional meltdown and starts freaking out. despite the fact that at this point she's killed Ridley several times already. If I killed somebody more than once and they kept coming back to life, at that point I would probably think it par for the course. Or, how about being forced to run through a boiling hot magma cavern, without the Varia Suit, because "Adam" didn't authorize it or Samus is now so submissive she doesn't bother to do it herself anyway? Oh, and the "Bottle Ship" has a distress signal called a "Baby's Cry"? and Samus keeps on referring to "The baby"? I bet the writer felt so clever, trying to imply that Samus had maternal feelings for that one Metroid.

Oh well, at least I still have my copy of Metroid Prime Collection for Wii.....

[/rant]

Offline Barbarella

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #366 on: January 29, 2014, 01:08:02 am »
I just want to know, what was Sakamoto trying to accomplish? Was he basically saying "I'm a sexist & I want to troll those who looked up to Samus in a feminist way"? Doesn't he get that part of the appeal of Samus was that she was so strong & groundbreaking? How can a guy be so stupid? Even if he is a sexist guy, he should KNOW that the main reasons that Samus was so beloved as a character was that she was a female who wasn't the usual "distressed damsel/love interest/supporting character" and was the main, strong "action hero" protagonist. Even the game series itself is inspired by the Alien series.

Art Vandelay

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #367 on: January 29, 2014, 01:17:52 am »
I just want to know, what was Sakamoto trying to accomplish? Was he basically saying "I'm a sexist & I want to troll those who looked up to Samus in a feminist way"? Doesn't he get that part of the appeal of Samus was that she was so strong & groundbreaking? How can a guy be so stupid? Even if he is a sexist guy, he should KNOW that the main reasons that Samus was so beloved as a character was that she was a female who wasn't the usual "distressed damsel/love interest/supporting character" and was the main, strong "action hero" protagonist. Even the game series itself is inspired by the Alien series.
Hanlon's razor, my friend. I can't imagine any of the Team Ninja writers had any sort of anti-feminist agenda. Most likely, they were just bad writers. It seems like they were trying to give her flaws to make her seem a bit more complex a character than just a generic action hero with tits, they just did an absolutely terrible job on it. Not that this somehow justifies Metroid: Other M. It's still godawful. Just that it's the result of inept writing rather than any sort of intentional bigotry.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #368 on: January 29, 2014, 01:33:54 am »
I think Art is right. As games are becoming more valued as an art form and stories are getting more and more complex, it's becoming more common to create complex, flawed characters. Unless you're making a game that's designed purely as fun or too simple to have a story, gamers have come to expect something more than "Defeat the aliens, save the galaxy."

The problem is that the writers did a shit job. They tried to give her flaws to make her a more human character, but the flaws were made too large and contradicted her established characterization and history.

It was sort of like a backwards version of the Tomb Raider reboot: Lara Croft was given vulnerabilities and character development to try and show how she became a badass explorer and gunfighter, but she went from zero to hero almost instantaneously and got extremely little discussion regarding the psychological part of killing beyond a token crying scene and "It felt too easy and I'm disturbed" throwaway line, and all of her characterization was restricted to cutscenes while gameplay was typical third-person combat where you slaughter three dozen men in a few minutes without blinking. In Other M, they take a badass explorer and warrior and turn her cutscene persona into a whiny, ineffectual bag of emotions who's barely capable of doing her job.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #369 on: January 29, 2014, 01:44:14 am »
I just want to know, what was Sakamoto trying to accomplish? Was he basically saying "I'm a sexist & I want to troll those who looked up to Samus in a feminist way"? Doesn't he get that part of the appeal of Samus was that she was so strong & groundbreaking? How can a guy be so stupid? Even if he is a sexist guy, he should KNOW that the main reasons that Samus was so beloved as a character was that she was a female who wasn't the usual "distressed damsel/love interest/supporting character" and was the main, strong "action hero" protagonist. Even the game series itself is inspired by the Alien series.
Hanlon's razor, my friend. I can't imagine any of the Team Ninja writers had any sort of anti-feminist agenda. Most likely, they were just bad writers. It seems like they were trying to give her flaws to make her seem a bit more complex a character than just a generic action hero with tits, they just did an absolutely terrible job on it. Not that this somehow justifies Metroid: Other M. It's still godawful. Just that it's the result of inept writing rather than any sort of intentional bigotry.

Man! I hope so. The thing is, I don't mind the idea of making Samus a human being with feelings, hopes, fears, pathos, shellshock or whatever but it was done all wrong. Also, her relationship with Adam screams "co-dependant, controlling relationship". She goes on about hoe great Adam is but he comes across as a jerk. Sure, he's a military superior guy and order-following is normal but the level of non-questioning obedience is disturbing. Sure, perhaps Sakamoto & Co. are Japanese where not-questioning authority is the ideal but DAMN!

It's not a matter of making her a sensitive human being, it's a matter of making her a submissive milquetoast.

It's not that she's shocked that Ridley came back, it's that she totally turned to jello.

The thing is, would these developers do the exact same stuff to male action characters in the exact same fashion?

I've read the interviews with Sakamoto. He sounds like a smug jerkass who thinks he alone created the series & that he hasn't the foggiest why folks hate Other M, and he says it in a way that indicates that he does know but just likes to mess with fans heads.

If Sakamoto & Ninja Games wanted to make a game to appeal to Japanese social & gender mores, he should've just made Other M for exclusively the Japanese market while the West can have their "Independent Heroine" version of Samus. Two Samuses! East & West! Let folks choose.

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #370 on: January 29, 2014, 01:48:58 am »
I remember reading that Metroid: Other M was far more successful in Japan than the Prime games because of Samus's characterization.

If what I read was correct (and assuming I'm remembering it right), Other M wasn't made for us, it was made for Japan because Metroid was doing VERY poorly there.

Incidentally, I like the concept and I hate how some of the people hate Other M.  It's okay to have a protagonist who is emotional, suffers from trauma, and isn't some stoic bastard who is forbidden from having anything other than a permanent scowl on their face.  Hell, it's even okay to give them something to cry about, even if it's something as "petty" as the loss of a pet (which is in no way petty at all.)

Unfortunately, Other M just kinda went too far and "chickified" Samus.  Honestly, I don't even mind that she developed a maternal instinct for the baby Metroid but... yeah, people have a point in that they reduced Samus to those aspects of her.  I can even narrow it down to three aspects.

1. Her father complex with Adam
2. Her maternal conflict
3. Her PTSD

She only started becoming the individual bounty hunter that she was about most of the way through the game, when Adam disappeared from mission control.  And that didn't last long.

That being said, I'm geting really annoyed at the haters who demand that Samus be some sociopathic stone wall that would sooner shoot you in the face than speak with you.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #371 on: January 29, 2014, 01:54:42 am »
I think Art is right. As games are becoming more valued as an art form and stories are getting more and more complex, it's becoming more common to create complex, flawed characters. Unless you're making a game that's designed purely as fun or too simple to have a story, gamers have come to expect something more than "Defeat the aliens, save the galaxy."

The problem is that the writers did a shit job. They tried to give her flaws to make her a more human character, but the flaws were made too large and contradicted her established characterization and history.

It was sort of like a backwards version of the Tomb Raider reboot: Lara Croft was given vulnerabilities and character development to try and show how she became a badass explorer and gunfighter, but she went from zero to hero almost instantaneously and got extremely little discussion regarding the psychological part of killing beyond a token crying scene and "It felt too easy and I'm disturbed" throwaway line, and all of her characterization was restricted to cutscenes while gameplay was typical third-person combat where you slaughter three dozen men in a few minutes without blinking. In Other M, they take a badass explorer and warrior and turn her cutscene persona into a whiny, ineffectual bag of emotions who's barely capable of doing her job.

And on top of that, (I might be wrong & I only know about the game from reviews & such) Adam ultimately killed the monster in a suicide attack! *GAH!* The main hero protagonist isn't even the one to do the hero stuff! Why not just make it The Adventures Of Adam Malkovich (guest staring Jello-Samus Aran the MRA-friendly fantasy girl).


I remember reading that Metroid: Other M was far more successful in Japan than the Prime games because of Samus's characterization.

If what I read was correct (and assuming I'm remembering it right), Other M wasn't made for us, it was made for Japan because Metroid was doing VERY poorly there.

Incidentally, I like the concept and I hate how some of the people hate Other M.  It's okay to have a protagonist who is emotional, suffers from trauma, and isn't some stoic bastard who is forbidden from having anything other than a permanent scowl on their face.  Hell, it's even okay to give them something to cry about, even if it's something as "petty" as the loss of a pet (which is in no way petty at all.)

Unfortunately, Other M just kinda went too far and "chickified" Samus.  Honestly, I don't even mind that she developed a maternal instinct for the baby Metroid but... yeah, people have a point in that they reduced Samus to those aspects of her.  I can even narrow it down to three aspects.

1. Her father complex with Adam
2. Her maternal conflict
3. Her PTSD

She only started becoming the individual bounty hunter that she was about most of the way through the game, when Adam disappeared from mission control.  And that didn't last long.

That being said, I'm geting really annoyed at the haters who demand that Samus be some sociopathic stone wall that would sooner shoot you in the face than speak with you.

I'm with you. I don't want her to be a sociopath. She should have emotions & foibles. I prefer a person be someone whose a sensitive soul with feelings. I hate sociopathy as much as anybody.

And like you, I feel they took it too far and chicktified her.

My solution, two Samuses, two Metroid continuities.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 01:58:10 am by SpukiKitty »

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #372 on: January 29, 2014, 01:58:24 am »
Or you could go the other way and make Samus a stone-faced sociopath, but realistically consider the faults of that kind of person as part of the storyline.

The best way to do it would have been to do exactly what they intended to do: humanize Samus and give her character flaws, but don't let them impact her existing characterization of a badass bounty hunter willing to do whatever it takes. It's perfectly okay for her to have maternal instinct regarding the Metroid, or a paternalistic relationship with Adam. And maybe she stumbles sometimes because of it. But the writers just made her an unstable bag of tears and unsolved issues.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #373 on: January 29, 2014, 02:02:00 am »
Or you could go the other way and make Samus a stone-faced sociopath, but realistically consider the faults of that kind of person as part of the storyline.

The best way to do it would have been to do exactly what they intended to do: humanize Samus and give her character flaws, but don't let them impact her existing characterization of a badass bounty hunter willing to do whatever it takes. It's perfectly okay for her to have maternal instinct regarding the Metroid, or a paternalistic relationship with Adam. And maybe she stumbles sometimes because of it. But the writers just made her an unstable bag of tears and unsolved issues.

Yep.

Should we continue this in the Video Game thread?

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #374 on: January 29, 2014, 02:04:19 am »
Probably.
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