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Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: gyeonghwa on February 28, 2012, 05:17:40 pm

Title: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: gyeonghwa on February 28, 2012, 05:17:40 pm
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/26/priest-walks-out-of-womans-funeral-because-of-her-gay-daughter/

Quote
My friend Barbara, the daughter of the deceased woman, was denied communion at her mother’s funeral. She was the first in line and Fr. Guarnizo covered the bowl containing the host and said to her,  “I cannot give you communion because you live with a woman and that is a sin according to the church.” To add insult to injury, Fr. Guarnizo left the altar when she delivered her eulogy to her mother. When the funeral was finished he informed the funeral director that he could not go to the gravesite to deliver the final blessing because he was sick.

I will tell you a little about the woman who drove that priest from the altar. She is kind, she is smart, she is funny and she works hard promoting the arts. She pays her bills, she cares deeply for her family and she loved her mother and her mother loved her right back. And now she will never set foot in a Catholic church again and who can blame her?

That's classy. Simply because her daughter is gay, you fuck up a person's funeral. But whatever, there are already plenty of LGBT affirming churches out there for people to chose.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Eniliad on February 28, 2012, 06:17:22 pm
As terrible as it is that this happened, it's good when someone outs themselves as homophobic in such a way that it gets attention from the community at large; it helps avoid future incidents like this, as LGBT will avoid his church in the future.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist on February 28, 2012, 06:33:18 pm
What an asshole. The woman just lost her mother -- is it really so difficult to show a bit of decency?
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Shane for Wax on February 28, 2012, 06:48:46 pm
Oi, padre:

(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lssnkx4Jsf1r1tjlxo8_250.gif)

Fuck-a you.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: N. De Plume on February 28, 2012, 06:58:11 pm
The communion bit would be expected. Walking out during the eulogy and gravesite blessing? Not so much.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Old Viking on February 28, 2012, 07:01:47 pm
This sort of unremitting nasty-to-the-bone judgment was just one of the reasons I said bye-bye to the Catholic Church 50 years ago.  Stick your sins up your ass!
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: ironbite on February 28, 2012, 07:43:05 pm
Was it also the fact they wouldn't let you pillage and rape nunneries anymore?

As to the priest, he didnt' lie.  He actually was quite ill.  Ill at the thought of having to spend time with one of those god-forsaken homos I bet.  But it's ok guys.  He went back to the church and curled up with his favorite alter boy for the evening as was right as rain.

Ironbite-so remember kids, Homosexuality=SINNER!  Pedophilia=GOD FEARING PRIEST!
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: RavynousHunter on February 28, 2012, 08:01:23 pm
This sort of unremitting nasty-to-the-bone judgment was just one of the reasons I said bye-bye to the Catholic Church 50 years ago.  Stick your sins up your ass!

Old Viking...can you be my new granddad?  The one I currently have sucks worse than a hooker in Tijuana.

That said...no, just no.  Its one thing to walk out on a sermon because one of those "evil homos" is attending your service, but fucking up someone's funeral?  I don't care who ya are, that is one time no one has a right to fuck up, no matter how "godly" they are.  Bitch complains about being ill...fucker, just reading this nearly made me physically ill.  Just...fuck.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SkyTrekTower on February 28, 2012, 10:06:09 pm
I can give him a pass on denying communion, but walking out on the eulogy and refusing to bless the grave site is horrible.  Just because she's gay doesn't give you the right to insult her and her family to such a degree.  The priests actions were incredibly disrespectful to all who knew the woman.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: MadCatTLX on February 28, 2012, 10:57:30 pm
If I were there I probably would have taken him outside and had a few "words" with him.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: ThunderWulf on February 29, 2012, 12:04:25 am
Walking out on the eulogy is just fucking cold hearted.  I don't care whether or not someone's sexuality offends you.  Acting like someone's feelings are beneath you when they just had a loved one die proves how much of a soulless bastard you really are.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on February 29, 2012, 12:20:13 am
Yeah that Priest is doing really well with that whole "Golden Rule" bit that Christ said was so important.  Would he have wanted that done at HIS mother's funeral?
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Meshakhad on February 29, 2012, 01:01:30 am
George?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_QDGdbg-QQ
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: m52nickerson on February 29, 2012, 07:38:25 am
They do stuff like this and then wonder why people are leaving the church.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: ironbite on February 29, 2012, 01:59:21 pm
Cause of those thrice-damned homosexuals of course.

Ironbite-it's so obvious that homosexual-I'm gonna go be sick for awhile.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on February 29, 2012, 02:55:53 pm
They do stuff like this and then wonder why people are leaving the church.
I can't say I blame them.  It's becoming more and more rife with hypocrites.  Really sad.
I don't belong to any particular church mostly because of that.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Canadian Mojo on February 29, 2012, 03:37:57 pm
What did this dead woman do that she should be denied her graveside rites? The priest ignored his sacred duty and risked her soul because of the sin of another. Good thing he's Catholic and can just say 'I'm sorry' in order to get back into God's good graces otherwise he'd be in a lot of trouble.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on February 29, 2012, 04:04:37 pm
In my understanding, you have to be sorry and actually mean it.  So... it's debatable on where he now stands with the Big Entity.  Not my place to say anyway. 
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: MadCatTLX on February 29, 2012, 04:07:07 pm
In my understanding, you have to be sorry and actually mean it.  So... it's debatable on where he now stands with the Big Entity.  Not my place to say anyway. 

My understanding was that you just have to say it.

What did this dead woman do that she should be denied her graveside rites? The priest ignored his sacred duty and risked her soul because of the sin of another. Good thing he's Catholic and can just say 'I'm sorry' in order to get back into God's good graces otherwise he'd be in a lot of trouble.

Whereas in other sects of christianity you just have to say you love Jesus, so Hitler goes to heaven but Ghandi doesn't. I once asked someone who made a comment that all you had to do was accept Jesus and your saved if he believed my previous comment. He said that, yes, that is what it means.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on February 29, 2012, 04:09:46 pm
That's why I said it's not really my place to determine stuff like that.  Just personally, an apology is a whole lot better if it's given with conviction and true remorse.

EDIT: My personal beliefs, however Christ-based, tend to not be "Christian enough" for most fundies.  Go fig.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: N. De Plume on February 29, 2012, 06:28:18 pm
Yeah that Priest is doing really well with that whole "Golden Rule" bit that Christ said was so important.

Totally. Wasn’t that Jesus fella all about reaching out to the most horrible of the horrible sinners?
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Witchyjoshy on February 29, 2012, 07:29:36 pm
Hey, priest?  Do any exorcisms lately?

BECAUSE I'M ABOUT TO EXORCISE YOUR ASS WITH DRAGONFIRE!

RAAAAGGGHHHH!!!
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on February 29, 2012, 10:51:15 pm
Mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm; toasty!
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 01, 2012, 04:11:24 am
Mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm; toasty!

Everyone knows dragon fire cooks the best toast in existence.

It also cooks the best burgers, best sausage, best chicken, best adventurers, and best homework assignments.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Cerim Treascair on March 01, 2012, 12:25:03 pm
Mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm; toasty!

Everyone knows dragon fire cooks the best toast in existence.

It also cooks the best burgers, best sausage, best chicken, best adventurers, and best homework assignments.

Hey, those adventurers wear all that heavy plate... it's cooking them in their own juices.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: N. De Plume on March 01, 2012, 09:40:49 pm
The wizards are usually in some sort of tacky robe instead of plate, though.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Eniliad on March 01, 2012, 11:10:50 pm
I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 02, 2012, 07:37:34 am
The wizards are usually in some sort of tacky robe instead of plate, though.

Then you get those fancy battlemages who wear both at the same time.

Makes for an interesting flavor.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: ThunderWulf on March 02, 2012, 10:57:12 am
The wizards are usually in some sort of tacky robe instead of plate, though.

Then you get those fancy battlemages who wear both at the same time.

Makes for an interesting flavor.

The armor probably keeps 'em nice and moist while the cloth makes sure they're cooked nice and thoroughly.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on March 02, 2012, 01:44:44 pm
Just realised:  I'm a priest.  :(   I don't even get a cool wizard robe...
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 02, 2012, 05:04:18 pm
Just realised:  I'm a priest.  :(   I don't even get a cool wizard robe...

You get a cool priest robe instead.

Or a suit of plate armor if you're a cleric-type priest.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: RavynousHunter on March 02, 2012, 06:15:40 pm
Or adamantium chainmail, if you happen to be a Favored Soul...
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on March 02, 2012, 10:34:07 pm
I am so ignorant with all these weird RPG classes thingies.   Though I am happy to be able to wear cool clothes like everyone else.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 03, 2012, 05:40:06 pm
Divine magic doesn't have armor spell failure penalties, so get the heaviest full plate you can find.

Me, I like my Copper Dragon Armor.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 03, 2012, 10:16:36 pm
Me, I like my Copper Dragon Armor.

ಠ_ಠ
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 03, 2012, 10:24:30 pm
Me, I like my Copper Dragon Armor.

ಠ_ಠ

Don't worry. It died of "natural causes."
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 03, 2012, 10:52:52 pm
Me, I like my Copper Dragon Armor.

ಠ_ಠ

Don't worry. It died of "natural causes."

ಠ_ಠ
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 03, 2012, 10:59:34 pm
Me, I like my Copper Dragon Armor.

ಠ_ಠ

Don't worry. It died of "natural causes."

ಠ_ಠ

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: ironbite on March 03, 2012, 11:35:18 pm
Me, I like my Copper Dragon Armor.

ಠ_ಠ

Don't worry. It died of "natural causes."

Swords to the heart are natural causes.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SpaceProg on March 03, 2012, 11:36:57 pm
I think I like Pelor..  I could be a Neutral Good Priest of Pelor!
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: e13 on March 04, 2012, 12:05:50 am
In my understanding, you have to be sorry and actually mean it.  So... it's debatable on where he now stands with the Big Entity.  Not my place to say anyway.
I was raised Catholic at a Catholic School. It was explained to me that

1. You go to confession, beg forgiveness.

2. You must mean it, or you are lying to God, and that's not good to get in His so-called Good Graces

3. You must then do penance as prescribed by a priest. Most often a series of prayers, but sometimes a task or act to perform.

I do know of some born again groups who put the focus on saying one is sorry, but if there is one thing Catholics are good at, it's guilt.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: SkyTrekTower on March 12, 2012, 08:10:03 pm
The priest has now been placed on administrative leave, not for denying communion(according to the Catholic church, you can't receive communion if you are in "a state of sin"), but rather for being an asshole towards church staff.

Quote
A Roman Catholic priest who allegedly denied Holy Communion to a lesbian at her mother’s Maryland funeral has been placed on administrative leave, the Archdiocese of Washington said.

A spokeswoman for the archdiocese said the suspension was not triggered by last month’s alleged Communion denial, but by events involving the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo in the days since.

The archdiocese “received credible allegations that Father Guarnizo had engaged in intimidating behavior toward parish staff and others that is incompatible with proper priestly ministry,” the archdiocese said in a Friday statement.

“Given the grave nature of these allegations, and in light of the confusion in the parish and the concerns expressed by parishioners,” the statement continued, “Father Guarnizo is prohibited from exercising any priestly ministry in the Archdiocese of Washington until all matters can be appropriately resolved with the hope that he might return to priestly ministry.”

Link (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/12/priest-who-allegedly-denied-communion-to-lesbian-placed-on-leave/?hpt=hp_c2)
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: Stormwarden on March 12, 2012, 11:59:48 pm
^Translation: He was busted for being an asshole...and considering how hard it is to do that with pedophile priests in the RCC, well...this guy must be a real DICK if the RCC is even going this far with him.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: The Lazy One on March 13, 2012, 12:31:33 pm
Holy shit. That's just... WTF.

Wasn't he ever taught to respect the dead? And the surviving family members and friends of the dead? I can maaaaybe see him denying communion, but walking out on the eulogy and the grave-site blessing? What an asshole.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: N. De Plume on March 13, 2012, 07:45:11 pm
Shit. I didn’t really want to say it, but I gotta: I think the guy would have gotten off easier with his superiors if he had just raped a kid.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: RavynousHunter on March 13, 2012, 08:29:52 pm
Fuck with a funeral, you're lucky if the RCC doesn't just shoot ya.  Fuck a child, the RCC will spend inordinate amounts of money to ensure you don't get shot.
Title: Re: You stay classy, Priest
Post by: ironbite on March 15, 2012, 10:01:27 pm
So you guys wanna know what this priest thinks of denying communion to a lesbian?  Well, Apparently it's the same as denying communion to a drug addict or drunk (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/marcel-guarnizo-lesbian-communion-barbara-johnson_n_1349388.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003)

Here's his statement.

Quote
I would like to begin by once again sending my condolences to the Johnson family on the death of Mrs. Loetta Johnson.

I also feel obliged to answer questions from my parishioners, as well as from the public, about the incident on February 25th.

Here are the facts: On Saturday, February 25th I showed up to officiate at a funeral Mass for Mrs. Loetta Johnson. The arrangements for the Mass were also not my own. I wish to clarify that Ms. Barbara Johnson (the woman who has since complained to the press), has never been a parishioner of mine. In fact, I had never met her or her family until that morning.

The funeral celebration was to commence at 10:30a.m.

From 9:30 to 10:20, I was assigned to hear confessions for the parish and anyone in the funeral party who would have chosen to receive the sacrament.

A few minutes before the Mass began, Ms. Johnson came into the sacristy with another woman whom she announced as her "lover." Her revelation was completely unsolicited. As I attempted to follow Ms. Johnson, her lover stood in our narrow sacristy physically blocking my pathway to the door. I politely asked her to move and she refused.

I understand and agree it is the policy of the archdiocese to assume good faith when a Catholic presents himself for communion; like most priests I am not at all eager to withhold communion. But the ideal cannot always be achieved in life.

In the past ten days, many Catholics have referenced Canon 915 in regard to this specific circumstance. There are other reasons for denying communion which neither meet the threshold of Canon 915 or have any explicit connection to the discipline stated in that canon.

If a Quaker, a Lutheran or a Buddhist, desiring communion had introduced himself as such, before Mass, a priest would be obligated to withhold communion. If someone had shown up in my sacristy drunk, or high on drugs, no communion would have been possible either. If a Catholic, divorced and remarried (without an annulment) would make that known in my sacristy, they too according to Catholic doctrine, would be impeded from receiving communion. This has nothing to do with Canon 915. Ms. Johnson's circumstances are precisely one of those relations which impede her access to communion according to Catholic teaching. Ms. Johnson was a guest in our parish, not the arbitrer of how sacraments are dispensed in the Catholic Church.

In all of the above circumstances, I would have been placed in a similar uncomfortable position. Under these circumstances, I quietly withheld communion, so quietly that even the Eucharistic Minister standing four feet from me was not aware I had done so. (In fact Ms. Johnson promptly chose to go to the Eucharistic minister to receive communion and did so.) There was no scandal, no "public reprimand" and no small lecture as some have reported.

Details matter. Ms. Johnson was not kneeling when she approached for communion, she did not receive the cup as the press has reported she has stated. It is the policy of St. John Neumann parish never to distribute under both species during funerals.

During the two eulogies (nearly 25 minutes long), I quietly slipped for some minutes into the sacristy lavatory to recover from the migraine that was coming on. I never walked out on Mrs. Loetta Johnson's funeral and the liturgy was carried out with the same reverence and care that I celebrate every Mass. I finished the Mass and accompanied the body of the deceased in formal procession to the hearse, which was headed to the cemetery. I am subject to occasional severe migraines, and because the pain at that point was becoming disabling, I communicated to our funeral director that I was incapacitated and he arranged one of my brother priests to be present at the cemetery to preside over the rite of burial.

Furthermore, as the testimony of the priest that was at the cemetery conveys, he was present when the Johnson family arrived, and in fact mentioned that being called to cover the burial rite is quite normal, as many priests for reasons much less significant than mine (rush hour traffic, for example) do not make the voyage to the cemetery. He routinely covers for them. This change in plans, was also invisible to the rest of the entourage. Regrets and information about my incapacitating migraine were duly conveyed to the Johnson family.

I have thanked the funeral director and the priest at the burial site, for their assistance that day. Mrs. Loetta Johnson was properly buried with every witness and ceremony a Catholic funeral can offer. I did not and would not refuse to accompany Barbara Johnson and her mother to the cemetery because she is gay or lives with a woman. I did not in any way seek to dishonor her memory, and my homily at the funeral should have made that quite evident to all in the pews, including the Johnson family.

I would like to extend again to Ms. Johnson and her family, my sincerest condolences on her mother's death. I would never intentionally want or seek to embarrass anyone publicly or increase anyone's emotional distress during such a difficult time. I did not seek or contrive these circumstances.

But I am going to defend my conduct in these instances, because what happened I believe contains a warning to the church. Such circumstances can and will be repeated multiple times over if the local church does not make clear to all Catholics that openly confessing sin is something one does to a priest in the confessional, not minutes before the Mass in which the Holy Eucharist is given.

I am confident that my own view, that I did the only thing a faithful Catholic priest could do in such an awkward situation, quietly, with no intention to hurt or embarrass, will be upheld.

Otherwise, any priest could--and many will--face the cruelest crisis of conscience that can be imposed. It seems to me, the lack of clarity on this most basic issue puts at risk other priests who wish to serve the Catholic Church in Washington D.C.

As to the latest allegations, I feel obliged to alleviate unnecessary suffering for the faithful at St. John Neumann and others who are following the case.

I wish to state that in conversation with Bishop Barry Knestout on the morning of March 13, he made it very clear that the whole of the case regarding the allegations of "intimidation" are circumscribed to two conversations; one with the funeral director and the other with a parish staff member present at the funeral. These conversations took place on March 7th and 8th, one day before the archdiocese's latest decision to withdraw faculties (not suspend, since Cardinal Wuerl is not my bishop) on the 9th of March. I am fully aware of both meetings. And indeed contrary to the statement read on Sunday, March 11th during all Masses at St. John Neumann, both instances have everything to do with the Eucharistic incident. There is no hidden other sin or "intimidation" allegations that they are working on, outside of these two meetings.

The meetings in question, occurred in our effort to document from people at the funeral Mass in written form a few facts about the nature of the incident. We have collected more than a few testimonies and affidavits, testifying to what really took place during the funeral liturgy.

My personal conversation with both parties in question were in my view civil, professional and in no way hostile. I respect both individuals in question and really do not know the nature of their grievance.

On March 13, I asked Bishop Knestout about detail on this matter but he stated that he was not at liberty to discuss the matter. I would only add for the record, that the letter removing me from pastoral work in the Archdiocese of Washington, was already signed and sealed and on the table when I met with Bishop Knestout on March 9, even before he asked me the first question about the alleged clash.

In the days to come I look forward to addressing any confusion about the above conversations if the archdiocese or the persons involved wish to talk about it publicly or privately.

I am grateful for all the good wishes and prayers I have received. And sincerely, having lost my own mother not long ago, I again extend my condolences to the Johnson family. I finally wish for the good of the Universal Church, the archdiocese, my parish and the peace of friends and strangers around the world, that the archdiocese would cease resolving what they call internal personnel matters of which they cannot speak, through the public media.

I remain my bishop's and my Church's, and above all Christ Jesus' obedient servant,

Very truly yours,

Father Marcel Guarnizo

Ironbite-YOU STAY CLASSY ASSHOLE!