Worst examples of designated heroes/villains

[R. U. Sirius]

The Greeks (Achaeans) in the Illiad and the Olympic Gods.

It should be noted that back then, "hero" had a much different connotation than today. It didn't really matter if you were a good person or even if you were on the same side as the writer/poet; being a hero was about being larger-than-life, accomplishing things no one else could. The only real sin in Greek culture was hubris, which was being so proud that you compared yourself to the gods. So to an ancient Greek listener, the great warriors mentioned in the Illiad on both sides would have been considered heroes.

[davedan]

Although you will note in the Illiad that both the Greeks and the Gods who support them are fucking awful, greedy, infighting and petty. Whereas the Trojans are quite noble and well thought out in comparison. This sits well with the theory that the Illiad was written by a man from Asia Minor following the greek sack of troy and the opening of the Hellespont / black sea trade route

[Katsuro]

The Greeks (Achaeans) in the Illiad and the Olympic Gods.

It should be noted that back then, "hero" had a much different connotation than today. It didn't really matter if you were a good person or even if you were on the same side as the writer/poet; being a hero was about being larger-than-life, accomplishing things no one else could. The only real sin in Greek culture was hubris, which was being so proud that you compared yourself to the gods. So to an ancient Greek listener, the great warriors mentioned in the Illiad on both sides would have been considered heroes.

Also bear in mind that at the time, morality wasn't quite the same as it is today.  Certain actions and personality traits that would have been acceptable then would not be acceptable now.

[kefkaownsall]

Yeah the way they treated Hector's corpse would have been a war crime.

[Vypernight]

Hoffman was the main hero of the Saw series, and he should've buried Jigsaw's legacy once and for all.  Also, in addition to Jigsaw, Dr. Gordon was the villain, along with the cult he started.

[Patches]

What about God and the Serpent in the Biblical Book of Genesis, as the Designated Hero and Villain, respectively?

God creates Adam and Eve, but creates them without the knowledge of right and wrong.  He then places a tree in their garden and commands them to never eat from it, or they'll die.  Which is somehow supposed to make sense to a pair of people who can neither conceptualize death nor obedience.

Enter the Serpent, who tells them that God was lying and they won't die if they eat from the tree, and instead they'll gain the knowledge of right and wrong.  So, Adam and Eve eat from the tree, don't die, and are only now able to understand that what they did was wrong once they'd already done it.

God gets mad at them breaking an order that they could have only followed once they'd already broken it, and kicks them out of the garden and punishes them for all eternity.

The Serpent is always called the "trickster" in this story, but really, what did it ever say that was untrue?  Is this implying that humanity would have been better off as ignorant robots without a conscience?

[TheUnknown]

As some Start Trek fans will argue, the entirety of Star Trek: Insurrection could qualify as this.  The villains (or at least the main villain) are portrayed cartoonishly despite the major conflict being very complex, making many side with the Son'a (the bad race) and the Federation instead of the Ba'ku (the good race) and the Enterprise crew.  I've tried to put into words what makes this case horrible, but really, you should just watch sfdebris's review of the movie, or if you don't want to watch the whole thing, just watch part 3, where he immediately picks apart the problem with the moral of the movie.  I can't do it justice.

[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

I've noticed that a lot of the characters in sitcoms and modern comedy films wind up becoming designated heroes due to being sociopathic jerkasses who have no problem treating their friends and loved ones like absolute shit. Likewise, a poorly written anti-hero can come across as this (I'm look at you, Rob Liefeld), although the line there can be a bit blurry due to the heavily YMMV nature of the anti-hero trope.

Oh, and Charles Xavier definitely qualifies here, even though he was (sort of) called out a few times. Starting from the basic premise of the early comics (old dude sending out teenagers to fight dangerous villains) to doing some seriously fucked up stuff to lusting after Jean since she was a child... and the list goes on. Kitty Pryde said it best: "Professor Xavier is a jerk!" Which is ironic, since Kitty had (as I recall) some designated hero moments herself. Hell, all of the X-Men have.

As some Start Trek fans will argue, the entirety of Star Trek: Insurrection could qualify as this.  The villains (or at least the main villain) are portrayed cartoonishly despite the major conflict being very complex, making many side with the Son'a (the bad race) and the Federation instead of the Ba'ku (the good race) and the Enterprise crew.  I've tried to put into words what makes this case horrible, but really, you should just watch sfdebris's review of the movie, or if you don't want to watch the whole thing, just watch part 3, where he immediately picks apart the problem with the moral of the movie.  I can't do it justice.

Not to mention that it committed the grievous crime of completing Picard's transformation from Intellectual-Who-Can-Kick-Ass-When-Necessary to Lowest-Common-Denominator-Action-Hero. Although, First Contact (despite being a decent film overall) certainly aided and abetted.

[kefkaownsall]

What about God and the Serpent in the Biblical Book of Genesis, as the Designated Hero and Villain, respectively?

God creates Adam and Eve, but creates them without the knowledge of right and wrong.  He then places a tree in their garden and commands them to never eat from it, or they'll die.  Which is somehow supposed to make sense to a pair of people who can neither conceptualize death nor obedience.

Enter the Serpent, who tells them that God was lying and they won't die if they eat from the tree, and instead they'll gain the knowledge of right and wrong.  So, Adam and Eve eat from the tree, don't die, and are only now able to understand that what they did was wrong once they'd already done it.

God gets mad at them breaking an order that they could have only followed once they'd already broken it, and kicks them out of the garden and punishes them for all eternity.

The Serpent is always called the "trickster" in this story, but really, what did it ever say that was untrue?  Is this implying that humanity would have been better off as ignorant robots without a conscience?

i prefer the smt idea that gods ideal person is a drone and satans ideal person is a beast

[davedan]

What about God and the Serpent in the Biblical Book of Genesis, as the Designated Hero and Villain, respectively?

God creates Adam and Eve, but creates them without the knowledge of right and wrong.  He then places a tree in their garden and commands them to never eat from it, or they'll die.  Which is somehow supposed to make sense to a pair of people who can neither conceptualize death nor obedience.

Enter the Serpent, who tells them that God was lying and they won't die if they eat from the tree, and instead they'll gain the knowledge of right and wrong.  So, Adam and Eve eat from the tree, don't die, and are only now able to understand that what they did was wrong once they'd already done it.

God gets mad at them breaking an order that they could have only followed once they'd already broken it, and kicks them out of the garden and punishes them for all eternity.

The Serpent is always called the "trickster" in this story, but really, what did it ever say that was untrue?  Is this implying that humanity would have been better off as ignorant robots without a conscience?

That is a great example. Although called the trickster it should be noted that the serpent told them the truth. It was God being throwing his toys out of the pram which introduced death. Besides which it showed an amazing lack of foresight for an omniscient being. Then again I don't think God becomes omnipotent or omniscient until the new testament / end of the old testament.

Then again I consider  the whole 'prophet'  business and incredibly inefficient way of spreading the word of your existence for an omnipotent/omniscient  being that created the universe. God could really do with a marketing course. I mean how many developments are completed where you can't immediately tell how built them.

[I am lizard]

While it doesn't include designated heros/villains the Doctor Who Episode "Love and Monsters" provides a pretty good example of a horrible thing being portrayed as good.
I prefer to think the whole thing happened in The Doctors head after her ate a contaminated banana.

[Askold]

There is this one indie adventure game series called Deponia, I bought the first part since it was dirt cheap and the demo had looked promising.

Turns out that the main character Rufus is pretty much a designated hero. Or that is my first impression at least, I haven't finished the game yet so he might make some character development. I think they wanted to make a flawed hero like Guybrush Threepwood from the Monkey island or something but they forgot to add ANY positive sides to the character.

He's greedy, selfish, egotistical and stupid (You just can't make a hero in an adventure game who isn't a complete moron. Well you could, but I guess they didn't think that would make a funny game.) He starts off the game smooching off his Ex-girlfriend and it turns out that he has never worked a day in his life, either living off other people or occasionally simply resorting to theft. He is rude to everyone (because sarcastically insulting other people is SO FUNNY!) And all his motivations in the game are utterly selfish, though he rationalizes everything and complains about how hard it is to be a hero when only agreeing to help another person when offered great rewards.

I will TRY to finish the game but unless Rufus improves at least a bit I'm not going to bother with the other parts. He is simply too unlikeable as the main character. (I could deal with a straight up villain protagonist. It's just that they made him out as the designated hero that is really annoying.)

[Katsuro]

There's also Tim Burton's Batman movies, where Batman blows up a power station full of security guards who don't work for the villain and puts a grenade down the trousers of an unarmed man, because he dared to punch Batman in the face.

Maybe some other Batman media play with the idea of blurred moral lines and how far can the hero go before becoming no better than the criminals he fights, but I seriously doubt Burton's films were going for that.

[Ultimate Paragon]

What about God and the Serpent in the Biblical Book of Genesis, as the Designated Hero and Villain, respectively?

God creates Adam and Eve, but creates them without the knowledge of right and wrong.  He then places a tree in their garden and commands them to never eat from it, or they'll die.  Which is somehow supposed to make sense to a pair of people who can neither conceptualize death nor obedience.

Enter the Serpent, who tells them that God was lying and they won't die if they eat from the tree, and instead they'll gain the knowledge of right and wrong.  So, Adam and Eve eat from the tree, don't die, and are only now able to understand that what they did was wrong once they'd already done it.

God gets mad at them breaking an order that they could have only followed once they'd already broken it, and kicks them out of the garden and punishes them for all eternity.

The Serpent is always called the "trickster" in this story, but really, what did it ever say that was untrue?  Is this implying that humanity would have been better off as ignorant robots without a conscience?

That's a pretty controversial example, but you definitely have a point.  However, most Biblical scholars say that part isn't meant to be taken literally.  Ask a Biblical scholar, and nine times out of ten they'll either say it's a metaphor, or they'll say it's some mythology from another religion that somehow ended up in the Old Testament.

[R. U. Sirius]

There's also Tim Burton's Batman movies, where Batman blows up a power station full of security guards who don't work for the villain and puts a grenade down the trousers of an unarmed man, because he dared to punch Batman in the face.

Maybe some other Batman media play with the idea of blurred moral lines and how far can the hero go before becoming no better than the criminals he fights, but I seriously doubt Burton's films were going for that.

Burton is famous for saying that he'd never read the comics and held comics in general in absolute contempt.