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Community => Science and Technology => Topic started by: Atheism Exposed on February 24, 2013, 07:45:07 pm

Title: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 24, 2013, 07:45:07 pm
For millennia, the universe was indisputably Geocentric. 

Everyone from the simplest peasant to the greatest genius like Ptolemy KNEW that the celestial bodies revolved around a fixed earth.  This knowledge was handed down throughout every sacred text of the time and well understood to be Truth.

And then early progenitors of the modern Cult of Atheism, Copernicus and Galileo came forth to DEMAND that our knowledge be superceded and that we accept the Atheists' latest lie against God and Reality. 

The Bible says it plain, the Earth is fixed and set firm and immovable.  The celestial bodies move about us and as such are subject to the will of God.  Modern "scientists" claim this not to be so and assume a 'moving earth' reference frame for relative motions within the orbital system rather than accepting the truth of a fixed earth and a moving external heliosphere.

Ultimately, the Great Lie of Heliocentrism cannot stand against the inexorable tide of Biblical Truth, one day our faith shall be vindicated!
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Auggziliary on February 24, 2013, 07:46:04 pm
Ok this troll sucks
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Cerim Treascair on February 24, 2013, 07:46:42 pm
This fucker officially owes me a new Dew.  Because I sprayed it all over my monitor laughing.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Witchyjoshy on February 24, 2013, 07:50:37 pm
Okay, you're a poe.  Nevermind.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: ThunderWulf on February 24, 2013, 07:53:23 pm
Okay, seriously?  That's the best you can come up with troll?  If that's your A-game, then we're gonna need a new chew toy.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 24, 2013, 07:54:45 pm
I must say, your "defense mechanism" against new ideas is pretty amusing for people who would style themselves 'freethinkers' :)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: dpareja on February 24, 2013, 07:55:45 pm
I must say, your "defense mechanism" against new ideas is pretty amusing for people who would style themselves 'freethinkers' :)

I did think about it. I concluded that geocentrism is wrong and that you are a troll.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 07:58:14 pm
Meh. Time to post cats.

(http://lolcat.com/images/lolcats/1338.jpg)

(http://iamkio.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/lolcat-1april-trashcat.jpg)

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljipsfttYG1qhfp7bo1_500.png)

(http://reviews.cnet.com/i/bto/20080401/LOLCat2.bmp)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 24, 2013, 07:59:21 pm
I must say, your "defense mechanism" against new ideas is pretty amusing for people who would style themselves 'freethinkers' :)

I did think about it. I concluded that geocentrism is wrong and that you are a troll.

Which is basically what the post you quoted was all about.  Your atheistic heliocentric worldview is entrenched such that anyone suggesting otherwise MUST NOT BE SERIOUS because otherwise they have to be insane and you have to get the thought police to go round them up, right?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 08:01:18 pm
I must say, your "defense mechanism" against new ideas is pretty amusing for people who would style themselves 'freethinkers' :)

I did think about it. I concluded that geocentrism is wrong and that you are a troll.

Which is basically what the post you quoted was all about.  Your atheistic heliocentric worldview is entrenched such that anyone suggesting otherwise MUST NOT BE SERIOUS because otherwise they have to be insane and you have to get the thought police to go round them up, right?
Okay, maybe you're NOT a Troll/Poe. Maybe you're an incredibly gifted lobotomized chimp.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Auggziliary on February 24, 2013, 08:02:30 pm
Usually when someone spells atheist correctly, not like "athiest", they are a troll.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Witchyjoshy on February 24, 2013, 08:02:42 pm
No, no, we know some people actually believe in the delusion that is geocentrism.

However, the very nature of how you post is just over-dramatic enough to reveal that, no, you are not serious about this, and haven't been serious about anything since you came here.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: MadCatTLX on February 24, 2013, 08:04:24 pm
Ok, can you provide some evidence that your assertion that the entire universe revolves around the earth is indeed fact? If you can, I'd love to see it. I'm more than happy to  accept that the universe is geocentric if someone can provide compelling evidence for that assertion.

Until this evidence is provided I shall continue to believe the earth is moved around the sun and rotated on its axis be two alicorns. Please, prove me wrong.

(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/061/7/8/celestia_y_luna_by_rainygami-d3arujx.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 08:04:48 pm
Usually when someone spells atheist correctly, not like "athiest", they are a troll.
I've never found spelling and grammar to be an accurate test for trolling.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 08:07:01 pm
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eIARuH0-x4Y/SYxeW1FKC_I/AAAAAAAAAdw/ZZYtCLibaJY/s400/lolcat.bmp)

(http://whitsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/funnyt-lolcat-recharging.jpg)

(http://whall.org/blog/files/lolcats-kahn.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 24, 2013, 08:07:25 pm
Usually when someone spells atheist correctly, not like "athiest", they are a troll.

Ironic.  One thing I have noted above all else about the Atheist community is how vicious antitheistic vitriol trumps spelling and grammar every time.  If you want to use my ability to spell correctly against me you first have to address your compatriots who "HATEZ TEH CHRISTAINS LOLOLZ" or however you encode such things.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 08:08:26 pm
Usually when someone spells atheist correctly, not like "athiest", they are a troll.

Ironic.  One thing I have noted above all else about the Atheist community is how vicious antitheistic vitriol trumps spelling and grammar every time.  If you want to use my ability to spell correctly against me you first have to address your compatriots who "HATEZ TEH CHRISTAINS LOLOLZ" or however you encode such things.
Dude, wut?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: davedan on February 24, 2013, 08:15:10 pm
So the Moon Landing? And every nation's space program ever?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 24, 2013, 08:19:46 pm
Ok, can you provide some evidence that your assertion that the entire universe revolves around the earth is indeed fact? If you can, I'd love to see it. I'm more than happy to  accept that the universe is geocentric if someone can provide compelling evidence for that assertion.

The Geocentric model is very old and very well established.  Older, in fact, than the heliocentric model. 

The heliocentric model simply fails to provide explanations for why:

(a) we have the exact same starfield visible in the night sky every night.  If the earth moved around the sun once per year, the stars in that starfield would change position on a nightly basis, this doesn't happen.

(b) the perfect correlation between the sizes of the moon and sun as seen from earth.  This is the only set of bodies in the KNOWN UNIVERSE where a perfect eclipse is visible.

(c) the Moon's tidal force upon the earth is far stronger than the sun's.  According the The Atheist Newton's gravitational equation and the mass/distance figures mandated by the heliocentric worldview, F = GmM / r^2, the Sun's gravitational pull upon the Earth is more than 100 times larger than the Moon's, yet the Moon exerts a far greater tidal force than the sun upon the earth.  Clearly either the equations underpinning heliocentrism OR the values they ascribe to the heavenly bodies are WRONG!
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Witchyjoshy on February 24, 2013, 08:21:41 pm
Ok, can you provide some evidence that your assertion that the entire universe revolves around the earth is indeed fact? If you can, I'd love to see it. I'm more than happy to  accept that the universe is geocentric if someone can provide compelling evidence for that assertion.

The Geocentric model is very old and very well established.  Older, in fact, than the heliocentric model.

So was the idea that the human body is made up of various humors and that controlled bleeding can solve every single disease and illness in the world.  And that was debunked.  Just like geocentrism.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 08:27:57 pm
So older = correct now? Well, pagan religions were around long before Christianity so...
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Scotsgit on February 24, 2013, 08:34:38 pm
For millennia, the universe was indisputably Geocentric. 

Everyone from the simplest peasant to the greatest genius like Ptolemy KNEW that the celestial bodies revolved around a fixed earth.  This knowledge was handed down throughout every sacred text of the time and well understood to be Truth.

And then early progenitors of the modern Cult of Atheism, Copernicus and Galileo came forth to DEMAND that our knowledge be superceded and that we accept the Atheists' latest lie against God and Reality. 

The Bible says it plain, the Earth is fixed and set firm and immovable.  The celestial bodies move about us and as such are subject to the will of God.  Modern "scientists" claim this not to be so and assume a 'moving earth' reference frame for relative motions within the orbital system rather than accepting the truth of a fixed earth and a moving external heliosphere.

Ultimately, the Great Lie of Heliocentrism cannot stand against the inexorable tide of Biblical Truth, one day our faith shall be vindicated!


Hate to burst your self-righteous bubble, but Galileo and Copernicus were both Christians.  How about doing some, you know, research?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 24, 2013, 08:35:50 pm
Ok, can you provide some evidence that your assertion that the entire universe revolves around the earth is indeed fact? If you can, I'd love to see it. I'm more than happy to  accept that the universe is geocentric if someone can provide compelling evidence for that assertion.

The Geocentric model is very old and very well established.  Older, in fact, than the heliocentric model. 

The heliocentric model simply fails to provide explanations for why:

(a) we have the exact same starfield visible in the night sky every night.  If the earth moved around the sun once per year, the stars in that starfield would change position on a nightly basis, this doesn't happen.

(b) the perfect correlation between the sizes of the moon and sun as seen from earth.  This is the only set of bodies in the KNOWN UNIVERSE where a perfect eclipse is visible.

(c) the Moon's tidal force upon the earth is far stronger than the sun's.  According the The Atheist Newton's gravitational equation and the mass/distance figures mandated by the heliocentric worldview, F = GmM / r^2, the Sun's gravitational pull upon the Earth is more than 100 times larger than the Moon's, yet the Moon exerts a far greater tidal force than the sun upon the earth.  Clearly either the equations underpinning heliocentrism OR the values they ascribe to the heavenly bodies are WRONG!

Statement (a)  couldn't be more wrong.  I can't begin to express how wrong it is.  the star field DOES change throughout the year.  That's why the constellations change throughout the year. Orion and Taurus, for example are northern hemisphere winter constellations while Cygnus and Hercules are seen in the summer.  The star field progresses across the sky on a nightly basis a little earlier each night.   This is due to the Earth revolving around the sun.

This one statement alone shows you have no idea what you are talking about and therefore diminishes the value of anything else you have to say.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 08:48:05 pm
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/29125914.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Jack Mann on February 24, 2013, 08:49:40 pm
The sun is four hundred times wider than the moon.  It is also four hundred times further away.  More or less.  They're not perfectly matched, but they're close enough to give us some awesome eclipses, it's true.

As for tidal effects, that's also due to the greater distance of the sun than the moon.  Tidal effects are a result of the way gravity drops off in a cubic manner.  That is, if you go twice as far away, gravity is eight times weaker.  Because the far end of a body experiences weaker gravity than the near end, it causes things like tides.  The far side of the Earth from the sun simply isn't all that much further away, compared to the total distance from the sun.  So tidal effects are fairly weak.  The distance to the moon, however, is much less, which means that the difference between its gravity on the near and far sides of the Earth are enough to cause noticeable effects.

For other evidence, the orbits of the planets simply don't make sense if you assume they revolve around the Earth.  What, in your model, compels the planets to double back on themselves, as they would have to be doing for geocentrism to work?

And we could never have sent a probe to Saturn if the heliocentric model didn't work.  The math would have failed entirely.  And yet the probe made it just fine, took pictures just as nice as you please.

Sorry, fellow.  Your model's been broken for over five hundred years.  Better luck another time.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: kefkaownsall on February 24, 2013, 09:15:57 pm
Obvious troll but the gravity equation is effected more by distance then mass
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 24, 2013, 11:13:10 pm
I'm torn on whether this guy's sincere or not.

Assuming he is, a question: Is the Earth flat or round?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Igor on February 24, 2013, 11:16:23 pm
Better question, is it round like a table or round like a ball?

On a serious note, why are we feeding the troll?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 24, 2013, 11:17:44 pm
On a serious note, why are we feeding the troll?
Because I can't get a live stream of the friggin' Oscars... >:(
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Cataclysm on February 24, 2013, 11:42:28 pm
I'm torn on whether this guy's sincere or not.

Assuming he is, a question: Is the Earth flat or round?

If the earth wasn't flat, then how come the horizon is flat?

Christians: 1

Atheists: 0
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Sleepy on February 25, 2013, 12:07:36 am
Man, if you're gonna troll, at least do something semi-balanced. This is so lame that it doesn't even deserve cats.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: ThunderWulf on February 25, 2013, 01:38:28 am
Yes, as I said before, he is a piss poor troll.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Iczerfour on February 25, 2013, 01:43:24 am
excuse me for just a second..
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/TailsKitsune/bdb669d0f7a0a0b1f7dc4999caa5c1fb132.gif)

oh wait your serious.. 

Let me laugh harder.

(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/TailsKitsune/panty-and-stocking-4-008.gif)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: davedan on February 25, 2013, 01:53:59 am
Actually I think he is a really impressive troll.

An Anglican, Geocentrist, fundamentalist homophobe.

And he has youtube videos as well. Outstanding.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on February 25, 2013, 01:57:14 am
The Geocentric model is very old and very well established.  Older, in fact, than the heliocentric model. 

The heliocentric model simply fails to provide explanations for why:

(a) we have the exact same starfield visible in the night sky every night.  If the earth moved around the sun once per year, the stars in that starfield would change position on a nightly basis, this doesn't happen.

(b) the perfect correlation between the sizes of the moon and sun as seen from earth.  This is the only set of bodies in the KNOWN UNIVERSE where a perfect eclipse is visible.

(c) the Moon's tidal force upon the earth is far stronger than the sun's.  According the The Atheist Newton's gravitational equation and the mass/distance figures mandated by the heliocentric worldview, F = GmM / r^2, the Sun's gravitational pull upon the Earth is more than 100 times larger than the Moon's, yet the Moon exerts a far greater tidal force than the sun upon the earth.  Clearly either the equations underpinning heliocentrism OR the values they ascribe to the heavenly bodies are WRONG!

Fairly sure this is trolling. But I can never resist stomping on bad science.

A: We do not, in fact, have the exact same view of the sky every night. This is why telescopes must constantly be re-adjusted in order to view the same section of space. This is also why not every constellation is always visible--as the earth revolves around the sun, some stars move out of our field of view.

B: The relative sizes of the sun and moon are not perfect. While nearly there, it's not quite. There is also the effect known as Baily's Beads -- during an eclipse, light shines through certain portions of the moon due to craters and other topographical features of the moon. For the eclipse to ever be truly perfect, the moon would have to be perfectly spherical, which is it not. Lastly, the eclipse is only possible due to the current orbiting distance of the moon. In years long past, the moon was much closer to the earth and would have blocked the sun entirely. In the future, as the moon moves further away from the earth, it will be too small to create a perfect eclipse.

C: Tidal forces are a differential force. They are caused when the gravity of one body exerted on another is not equal across its entire diameter. While the moon's gravity is obviously weaker than the sun's (otherwise we would be orbiting the moon, not the moon orbiting us while we orbit the sun), the moon still does exert its influence on the earth. The sun's gravity being stronger does not just make the moon's gravity disappear.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Askold on February 25, 2013, 02:37:53 am
Awww and I had such hopes of getting a debate out of AE.

Welp:

(http://fbgags.com/wp-content/uploads/christians-0-atheists-0-jabba-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 25, 2013, 08:47:28 am
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/282/362/50d.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 25, 2013, 09:40:14 am
And he has youtube videos as well. Outstanding.
Link please!
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 25, 2013, 09:45:38 am
And he has youtube videos as well. Outstanding.
Link please!
It's in his sig.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Scotsgit on February 25, 2013, 10:05:02 am
Actually I think he is a really impressive troll.

An Anglican, Geocentrist, fundamentalist homophobe.

And he has youtube videos as well. Outstanding.

How long do you think it'll be before he's arrested for cottaging?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 25, 2013, 10:07:59 am
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/283/041/3c6.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Distind on February 25, 2013, 10:57:21 am
I don't really feel like scrolling past all the cat macros, did anyone point out that he's glancing across right on his trip into orbit? As heliocentrism is a long discarded theory of the universe, and it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 25, 2013, 11:06:20 am
I don't really feel like scrolling past all the cat macros, did anyone point out that he's glancing across right on his trip into orbit? As heliocentrism is a long discarded theory of the universe, and it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Well, in so many word.  But if you follow the link to his youtube channel, I think you will quickly see this fellow is seriously deficient in any kind of actual scientific knowledge.   It's really sad that someone can be this delusional in today's world. Therefore  pointing out any actual facts to him is nothing but a serious waste of time and energy.

Of course, we will continue to do so, just for the lulz.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Material Defender on February 25, 2013, 11:57:24 am
This is terrible. I just... no.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 25, 2013, 02:53:22 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Old Viking on February 25, 2013, 02:57:33 pm
I haven't noticed the earth moving.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Distind on February 25, 2013, 03:02:11 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is separate from our galaxy, which is separate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.
Sort of, not really my field but the earth does not appear to be the point of origin for the movement at the very least. The observations I'm familiar with involve differences in relative speed between earth and other bodies which would indicate that whatever started everything moving wasn't directly centered around earth. It's all moving, the vast majority of it away from us in a literal sense, but how it's all moving doesn't support earth as the center of anything.

Though I have to ask, why is it really that important? Even if the literal truth was given to someone thousands of years ago, the translation, changes in language itself and grasp of the mechanics of the universe would make it largely impossible for that person to have written it down and have it survive this long. Assuming any given god is infallible, humans aren't, and humans have been the custodians of the materials which make up the bible for over two thousand years, over half of that time they weren't even a collected body of work.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 25, 2013, 03:07:23 pm
I haven't noticed the earth moving.

That would be because it isn't :)

Atheists use the idea of "atmospheric inertia" to explain away the lack of the violent effects of earth's supposed rotation about its axis and its movement about the sun, but this is easily shown to be nonsense.

A fighter pilot travelling at Mach 2 experiences hugely increased inertial forces due to speed, even moreso if the aircraft is turning.  And this is despite the craft having its own self-contained atmosphere.

If the earth were really whizzing through space at 87 times the speed of sound, the inertial force imparted to us would splatter anything living on the surface INSTANTLY!
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: dpareja on February 25, 2013, 03:08:57 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Observations show that every point in the universe is moving away from every other point in the universe. The natural inference is that every point has an equal claim to being the centre of the universe.

(And anyway, which point on Earth? You? Me? Distind? The FSTDT host server? And which point in there?)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 25, 2013, 03:12:10 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.
Observations also show that the Earth is perched on the back of a giant sea turtle.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Material Defender on February 25, 2013, 03:12:31 pm
Pro-Tip: Acceleration exerts Gs, not velocity. Since everything moves around the earth at the same velocity there's no real noticeable effect.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 25, 2013, 03:15:01 pm
I haven't noticed the earth moving.

That would be because it isn't :)

Atheists use the idea of "atmospheric inertia" to explain away the lack of the violent effects of earth's supposed rotation about its axis and its movement about the sun, but this is easily shown to be nonsense.

A fighter pilot travelling at Mach 2 experiences hugely increased inertial forces due to speed, even moreso if the aircraft is turning.  And this is despite the craft having its own self-contained atmosphere.

If the earth were really whizzing through space at 87 times the speed of sound, the inertial force imparted to us would splatter anything living on the surface INSTANTLY!
Oh god this is too much...

(http://thegboatdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/8p10n.gif?w=479)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: RinellaWasHere on February 25, 2013, 03:17:22 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Well, yes, things are moving away from us and we're moving away from them.

Also, I love how you only quote science when you can misinterpret and willfully ignore the parts you don't like.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 25, 2013, 03:20:05 pm
Pro-Tip: Acceleration exerts Gs, not velocity. Since everything moves around the earth at the same velocity there's no real noticeable effect.

And the earth's movement about the sun?  There has to be a force being applied constantly to maintain that movement (gravity), and the reaction to that force being applied (inertia) would be felt across the globe.  A force that can move something as big as the earth at 67000mph would result in a HUGE amount of inertia...
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 25, 2013, 03:21:14 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Well, yes, things are moving away from us and we're moving away from them.

Also, I love how you only quote science when you can misinterpret and willfully ignore the parts you don't like.

If the word of scientists is put against the word of God, it loses by default.  Science that is in line with God's word is useful however.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: RinellaWasHere on February 25, 2013, 03:25:35 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Well, yes, things are moving away from us and we're moving away from them.

Also, I love how you only quote science when you can misinterpret and willfully ignore the parts you don't like.

If the word of scientists is put against the word of God, it loses by default.  Science that is in line with God's word is useful however.

How do you everexpect to learn anything new if the only knowledge you accept is that which is contained in a book written thousands of years ago and thousands of miles from where you live, by a group of powerful men living in a patriarchal militaristic theocracy, in a language you neither speak nor read?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on February 25, 2013, 03:30:27 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Correction: Everything in the universe is moving further away from everything else. It is not specifically everything moving further away from us. At the same time any given galaxy is moving further away from our own, it is also moving further away from all the other of the billions of galaxies in existence. Essentially, the entire universe is expanding--imagine a balloon, with lots of little stars drawn on it. As the balloon inflates, every star moves further away from every other star. There is no one specific star that stands still, and the other stars move away from it. Instead, all the stars are moving away from each other as the distance between them grows increasingly vast. This a crude metaphor for the expansion of our universe.

By your logic, every point in the universe is the center of the universe, because every other point in space is moving further away from it.

The simple truth is, earth is an unremarkable planet orbiting a spectacularly unremarkable star, in an unremarkable arm of an unremarkable galaxy. There are billions of galaxies exactly like ours, each of which contains billions of stars orbited by billions of planets exactly like our own. Earth is in no way special, except that it is, at this time, the only planet we know of that has life. However, we make remarkable discoveries every day, and that may simply not always be the case.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 25, 2013, 03:33:01 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Correction: Everything in the universe is moving further away from everything else. It is not specifically everything moving further away from us. At the same time any given galaxy is moving further away from our own, it is also moving further away from all the other of the billions of galaxies in existence. Essentially, the entire universe is expanding--imagine a balloon, with lots of little stars drawn on it. As the balloon inflates, every star moves further away from every other star. There is no one specific star that stands still, and the other stars move away from it. Instead, all the stars are moving away from each other as the distance between them grows increasingly vast. This a crude metaphor for the expansion of our universe.

By your logic, every point in the universe is the center of the universe, because every other point in space is moving further away from it.

The simple truth is, earth is an unremarkable planet orbiting a spectacularly unremarkable star, in an unremarkable arm of an unremarkable galaxy. There are billions of galaxies exactly like ours, each of which contains billions of stars orbited by billions of planets exactly like our own. Earth is in no way special, except that it is, at this time, the only planet we know of what has life. However, we make remarkable discoveries every day, and that may simply not always be the case.

And this fantasy is based on what, exactly?  We have precisely ONE reference frame from which we can determine movement.  Maybe if you were in another galaxy you could have an extra perspective from which to claim that, but as it is all you can see is objects moving away from US. 
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: dpareja on February 25, 2013, 03:54:40 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Correction: Everything in the universe is moving further away from everything else. It is not specifically everything moving further away from us. At the same time any given galaxy is moving further away from our own, it is also moving further away from all the other of the billions of galaxies in existence. Essentially, the entire universe is expanding--imagine a balloon, with lots of little stars drawn on it. As the balloon inflates, every star moves further away from every other star. There is no one specific star that stands still, and the other stars move away from it. Instead, all the stars are moving away from each other as the distance between them grows increasingly vast. This a crude metaphor for the expansion of our universe.

By your logic, every point in the universe is the center of the universe, because every other point in space is moving further away from it.

The simple truth is, earth is an unremarkable planet orbiting a spectacularly unremarkable star, in an unremarkable arm of an unremarkable galaxy. There are billions of galaxies exactly like ours, each of which contains billions of stars orbited by billions of planets exactly like our own. Earth is in no way special, except that it is, at this time, the only planet we know of what has life. However, we make remarkable discoveries every day, and that may simply not always be the case.

And this fantasy is based on what, exactly?  We have precisely ONE reference frame from which we can determine movement.  Maybe if you were in another galaxy you could have an extra perspective from which to claim that, but as it is all you can see is objects moving away from US.

You have one reference frame from which you can determine movement; ergo by your logic you are the centre of the universe. I, similarly, have one reference frame from which I can determine movement; ergo by your logic I am the centre of the universe.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 25, 2013, 03:55:39 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Incorrect.  Again.  There is this thing called a Doppler Shift.  It can be used to describe an effect in both sound and light.  In astrophysics, it is the effect on light that we are concerned with.  When an object in space is moving away from us, it shifts to the infrared end of the light spectrum and when it is moving towards us, there is a shift towards the ultra-violet, or blue, end.  And in anticipation of a likely response from you, just because an object is moving towards us does not mean it is getting closer to us. 

When we view the light spectrum of the objects in space, we see that in one direction, the Doppler shift is towards the infrared end of the light spectrum and when we look in the opposite direction, it is towards the ultra-violet spectrum.  This shows that the direction of the expansion is from a point beyond the ultra-violet direction.  If all objects in space were moving away from us, as would need to be the case if Earth were the center of the universe, they would all be shifted to the infrared spectrum.

Although I'm sure you'll ignore any proof of this or come up with some other nonsensical or outdated concept in order to the attempt to disprove it, here's a link. (http://physics.about.com/od/lightoptics/a/doplight.htm)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on February 25, 2013, 03:59:37 pm
And this fantasy is based on what, exactly?  We have precisely ONE reference frame from which we can determine movement.  Maybe if you were in another galaxy you could have an extra perspective from which to claim that, but as it is all you can see is objects moving away from US. 

This fact of observable reality is based on math. Just as you can look at two people far away from you, and as they walk apart you can tell the distance between them is growing, so we can do with the rest of the universe. You see, there are these magical things known as "triangles", which are often used to measure the relative distance between multiple objects. By applying these mysterious triangles on an intergalactic scale, we can see that every single galaxy is moving further away from every single other galaxy.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Distind on February 25, 2013, 04:02:56 pm
Not to mention the various probes we've sent out, which we could judge relative to their position rather than our own. Or that big moon thing we've hit up a couple times. Doesn't quite compare to the sheer scale, but it would give us a different view of things.

My point earlier however was using the methods that Star Cluster mentions(it's roughly the same reason ambulances change in tune as they speed toward and then past you only measured in excruciating detail), when you look at the rest of the bodies of the universe they all largely appear to be moving away from a general area, which is not earth. While they are moving further from earth their path would appear to trace back to a completely different area of space than where the earth sits.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 25, 2013, 04:16:48 pm
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Søren on February 25, 2013, 05:02:00 pm
it's accepted that the universe has it's own central point, which is seperate from our galaxy, which is seperate from our sun, which largely puts earth as a tick in the back ass of no where in the universe?

Not so.  Observations show that every point in the universe appears to be moving away from us.  The natural inference of this is that the earth is at the centre of any supposed expansion.

Well, yes, things are moving away from us and we're moving away from them.

Also, I love how you only quote science when you can misinterpret and willfully ignore the parts you don't like.

If the word of scientists is put against the word of God, it loses by default.  Science that is in line with God's word is useful however.

This is the douchiest nonsensical statement i have heard in a long time. Thanks for that
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 25, 2013, 05:12:26 pm
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?

What sort of question is that?  You can see the earth is spherical just by looking to the horizon.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 25, 2013, 05:40:38 pm
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?

What sort of question is that?  You can see the earth is spherical just by looking to the horizon.

Wrong yet once again.  To look at the horizon from any vantage point on the ground, even if that point is on top of a mountain, the horizon looks curved, not spherical.  That is why the ancients thought the Earth to be flat.  It looked flat but with a curved edge.  If you go to the seaside and look at the horizon, the water looks flat and you cannot tell it is any other way just by looking at it.  Only by the observation of ships growing taller coming across the horizon could one deduce that the world may, in fact, be spherical.  The only way to "see" that the world is a sphere is to go into space where you can actually look at the curvature of the earth.

So, JohnE's question is not without merit.  He was only trying to figure out how, since you so rigidly view the geocentric notion as true, if you thought the flat earth way of thinking was true as well.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 25, 2013, 06:11:20 pm
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?

What sort of question is that?  You can see the earth is spherical just by looking to the horizon.
Well it's an oblate spheroid but in your case I'll say close enough. Also looking at the horizon it really does create the illusion of flatness, so you may want to doublecheck where you're looking at.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 25, 2013, 06:21:07 pm
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?
What sort of question is that?  You can see the earth is spherical just by looking to the horizon.
Some Chriastans like yourself who belive in geocentrism and such also believe in a flat earth for many of the same reasons.

Do you reject then, the passages of the bible that imply (at the very least) that the Earth is flat?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Mechtaur on February 26, 2013, 12:01:33 am
Ok, I admit I couldn't be assed to wade through five full pages of this. Did he bring up at any point how gravity is supposed to work for his hypothesis?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on February 26, 2013, 12:26:03 am
4 Corner Days Rotating Simultaneously Around 4 Quadrant Created Earth - In Only 1 Rotation, Voiding The Oneism Evil 1 Day 1 God.

(http://www.timecube.com/rotate.gif)

/generay=off

That's my contribution to this thread.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 26, 2013, 12:45:26 am
Jesus.  You guys are fucking prolific posters!  My link to see new stuff was somehow two pages behind.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 26, 2013, 06:40:37 am
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?
What sort of question is that?  You can see the earth is spherical just by looking to the horizon.
Some Chriastans like yourself who belive in geocentrism and such also believe in a flat earth for many of the same reasons.

Do you reject then, the passages of the bible that imply (at the very least) that the Earth is flat?

It isn't a matter of rejection.  In the Bible, the description of the earth as flat is a literary device.  In comparison, the Geocentric principle is stated far more explicitly and on at least one occasion a quote attributed directly to God. 
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: kefkaownsall on February 26, 2013, 08:15:13 am
So if the bible says to murder everyone cause god says so you should oh wait it does.  1 Samuel 15
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 26, 2013, 08:23:34 am
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?
What sort of question is that?  You can see the earth is spherical just by looking to the horizon.
Some Chriastans like yourself who belive in geocentrism and such also believe in a flat earth for many of the same reasons.

Do you reject then, the passages of the bible that imply (at the very least) that the Earth is flat?

It isn't a matter of rejection.  In the Bible, the description of the earth as flat is a literary device.  In comparison, the Geocentric principle is stated far more explicitly and on at least one occasion a quote attributed directly to God.

Oh, well, then, you sold me.  If God said it, it must be true. ::)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Auri-El on February 26, 2013, 09:30:58 am
This thread is way too funny. Yo, AE, as a Christian science major, I have no problem admitting that goat farmers 3000 years ago were wrong about a lot of things. It doesn't invalidate my belief to acknowledge the fallibility of the Bible. Earth most definitely is not the center of the universe, literally or figuratively.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 26, 2013, 09:34:38 am
Direct question: Is the Earth round (like a ball) or flat (like table)?
What sort of question is that?  You can see the earth is spherical just by looking to the horizon.
Some Chriastans like yourself who belive in geocentrism and such also believe in a flat earth for many of the same reasons.

Do you reject then, the passages of the bible that imply (at the very least) that the Earth is flat?

It isn't a matter of rejection.  In the Bible, the description of the earth as flat is a literary device.  In comparison, the Geocentric principle is stated far more explicitly and on at least one occasion a quote attributed directly to God.
Pretty convenient that you get too pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to believe.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 26, 2013, 11:35:33 am
I think AE is a secret atheist who's trying to make believers look stupid. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 26, 2013, 11:47:00 am
He's certainly doing a good job of it.  But if you follow the link in his sig, you'll see he has gone to a lot of effort to carry it out.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 26, 2013, 11:57:07 am
He's certainly doing a good job of it.  But if you follow the link in his sig, you'll see he has gone to a lot of effort to carry it out.
Just a classic example of a false-flag operation (http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=3615.msg134587#msg134587).
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 26, 2013, 12:09:44 pm
He's certainly doing a good job of it.  But if you follow the link in his sig, you'll see he has gone to a lot of effort to carry it out.
Just a classic example of a false-flag operation (http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=3615.msg134587#msg134587).

I realize that and started to mention it in my previous post.  And you may very well be right.  But if so, he certainly does show a high degree of dedication to the art.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Cataclysm on February 26, 2013, 12:17:16 pm
He only made like six videos. And it seems like poe to an epic degree. He claims Atheists engage in blood drinking rituals and that Newton was an Atheist Cultist.

His channel also doesn't have a username
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on February 26, 2013, 12:33:25 pm
He only made like six videos. And it seems like poe to an epic degree. He claims Atheists engage in blood drinking rituals and that Newton was an Atheist Cultist.

I didn't see where he said that, I just watched part of the one on geocentrism.  And what I did watch was so full of nonsensical gibberish that it was hard to tell if he was serious or not.  But to claim the things about atheists you mentioned does indicate either Poe or one seriously delusional individual.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 26, 2013, 12:44:43 pm
Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.

Better get used to it, the world is waking up to the truth.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 26, 2013, 12:49:50 pm
Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.

Better get used to it, the world is waking up to the truth.
Begone, secret atheist. I'm on to you...and your plans to make Christians look stupid. Well I'm not falling for it.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: banjaxed on February 26, 2013, 01:04:52 pm
If the word of scientists is put against the word of God, it loses by default.  Science that is in line with God's word is useful however.

Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.

Better get used to it, the world is waking up to the truth.

5/10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iqSbDRppgM
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 26, 2013, 02:19:30 pm
Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.
(assuming you're for real because that's more amusing)

1) There's no such thing as atheist dogma. Though most of us believe pretty strongly that the scientific method is a good way to sort fact from fiction, and if that's what you're accusing me of being dogmatic about, I'll gladly cop to that.

2) You have no legitimate disagreement.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Distind on February 26, 2013, 04:17:35 pm
He only made like six videos. And it seems like poe to an epic degree. He claims Atheists engage in blood drinking rituals and that Newton was an Atheist Cultist.

His channel also doesn't have a username
Atheist cultists have to be the most boring thing I've ever thought about. What would they even do?

Hey guys, wanna go debase ourselves and others in the name of our god and belief system? Wait, we don't have either... uh... pizza then?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: R. U. Sirius on February 26, 2013, 06:14:14 pm
He only made like six videos. And it seems like poe to an epic degree. He claims Atheists engage in blood drinking rituals and that Newton was an Atheist Cultist.

His channel also doesn't have a username
Atheist cultists have to be the most boring thing I've ever thought about. What would they even do?

Hey guys, wanna go debase ourselves and others in the name of our god and belief system? Wait, we don't have either... uh... pizza then?

And sexually-depraved orgies! Don't forget the sexually-depraved orgies!
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 26, 2013, 06:52:47 pm
Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.
(assuming you're for real because that's more amusing)

1) There's no such thing as atheist dogma. Though most of us believe pretty strongly that the scientific method is a good way to sort fact from fiction, and if that's what you're accusing me of being dogmatic about, I'll gladly cop to that.

2) You have no legitimate disagreement.

1 - Originally maybe the scientific method had that purpose but it is abundantly clear that modern scientists use it as a club to beat on religion.

2 - So you think my disagreement is illegitimate?  Maybe you think I should be arrested for my nonadherence to Atheism?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: R. U. Sirius on February 26, 2013, 07:06:32 pm
Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.
(assuming you're for real because that's more amusing)

1) There's no such thing as atheist dogma. Though most of us believe pretty strongly that the scientific method is a good way to sort fact from fiction, and if that's what you're accusing me of being dogmatic about, I'll gladly cop to that.

2) You have no legitimate disagreement.

1 - Originally maybe the scientific method had that purpose but it is abundantly clear that modern scientists use it as a club to beat on religion.

2 - So you think my disagreement is illegitimate?  Maybe you think I should be arrested for my nonadherence to Atheism?

Putting words in others' mouths is an ugly practice. Nobody has said you should be arrested; merely ignored.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on February 26, 2013, 07:13:32 pm
1 - Originally maybe the scientific method had that purpose but it is abundantly clear that modern scientists use it as a club to beat on religion.

2 - So you think my disagreement is illegitimate?  Maybe you think I should be arrested for my nonadherence to Atheism?

1 - It is hardly science's fault that your religion is incompatible with reality. Simply because you believe a bunch of bronze-age goat herders knew everything there was to know in the world does not mean the rest of us are content to sit in ignorance.

2 - He never suggested anything of the sort, nor would anyone here. Beliefs are never a cause for imprisonment (contrary to the historical stance of most religious leaders).
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 26, 2013, 07:32:56 pm
Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.
(assuming you're for real because that's more amusing)

1) There's no such thing as atheist dogma. Though most of us believe pretty strongly that the scientific method is a good way to sort fact from fiction, and if that's what you're accusing me of being dogmatic about, I'll gladly cop to that.

2) You have no legitimate disagreement.

1 - Originally maybe the scientific method had that purpose but it is abundantly clear that modern scientists use it as a club to beat on religion.

2 - So you think my disagreement is illegitimate?  Maybe you think I should be arrested for my nonadherence to Atheism?
1) The beauty of the scientific method, including the process of peer review, is that you can't just make the results say whatever you want. The process is designed to eliminate bias. You're just mad because you don't like the results. But being mad that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 5 doesn't mean mathematitions have it out for you.

2) Now you're just being silly. Why on Earth would I want you arrested?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 26, 2013, 07:46:08 pm
...the fuck?  Nonadherence to atheism?  Like...seriously.  Wat?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: davedan on February 26, 2013, 08:29:59 pm
Why are you hiding in this thread and not sharing your wisdom in the Atheists should self censor thread? We are ready to embrace the one true path of Anglicanism.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 26, 2013, 10:12:28 pm
Evidently it's impossible to imagine anyone having a legitimate disagreement with Atheist dogma and practices being peddled to our nation's children.
(assuming you're for real because that's more amusing)

1) There's no such thing as atheist dogma. Though most of us believe pretty strongly that the scientific method is a good way to sort fact from fiction, and if that's what you're accusing me of being dogmatic about, I'll gladly cop to that.

2) You have no legitimate disagreement.

1 - Originally maybe the scientific method had that purpose but it is abundantly clear that modern scientists use it as a club to beat on religion.

2 - So you think my disagreement is illegitimate?  Maybe you think I should be arrested for my nonadherence to Atheism?
More drivel from the false-flag "Christian". Think about it: if you wanted to make Christians look bad, wouldn't you claim to believe in ridiculous nonsense (e.g. Geocentrism) that most Christians think is insane? Funny that's exactly what we see, eh? (http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=3615.msg134544#msg134544) I should also point out that any of your pro-Christian videos can just as easily be considered fabrications (http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=3615.msg134538#msg134538) because Stalin or something. I'm on to you...

EDIT: The best part about this kind of argument is that I apparently don't have to prove dick.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: RavynousHunter on February 27, 2013, 12:09:23 am
I needed a smile, and by all that's awesome, this thread's done just that, along with a good amount of laughter.

I could refute this with a bunch of links, articles, and shit, but...really, others have done that, and I don't really give enough of a shit to do so.  I will, however, say that its your right to believe what you want and discuss it, even if its a scientifically demonstrable falsehood.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Mechtaur on February 27, 2013, 12:37:25 am
Better get used to it, the world is waking up to the truth.

You mean by the fact that religious faith in general is decreasing world wide?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 27, 2013, 12:39:38 am
So wat do if troll boy gets bored?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: RavynousHunter on February 27, 2013, 12:40:30 am
So wat do if troll boy gets bored?

What we do every time, Pinky, try to take over the world.

I mean, we move on to whatever chewtoy comes our way next.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on February 27, 2013, 12:43:21 am
So wat do if troll boy gets bored?

What we do every time, Pinky, try to take over the world.

I mean, we move on to whatever chewtoy comes our way next.

Oh.  Can we make this a Dolan thread?  Pretty pretty please? :D
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 27, 2013, 12:56:10 am
So wat do if troll boy gets bored?

What we do every time, Pinky, try to take over the world.

I mean, we move on to whatever chewtoy comes our way next.

Oh.  Can we make this a Dolan thread?  Pretty pretty please? :D
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/498/980/21b.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: ironbite on February 27, 2013, 03:02:13 am
Yeah no let's have none of that.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 27, 2013, 07:32:25 am
1) The beauty of the scientific method, including the process of peer review, is that you can't just make the results say whatever you want. The process is designed to eliminate bias. You're just mad because you don't like the results. But being mad that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 5 doesn't mean mathematitions have it out for you.

"bias" is a highly subjective term.  If everyone involved in the peer review process is an Atheist then any conclusion falling outside the usual materialist or uniformitarianist norm will be rejected out of hand.  How is that not an inherent bias in the system?

Quote
2) Now you're just being silly. Why on Earth would I want you arrested?

That is the ultimate solution to the problem of the religious, isn't it?  At least it always has been in any country where Atheism becomes the rule rather than the exception.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Sylvana on February 27, 2013, 08:05:08 am
I highly suspect troll, but what the hell I am bored.

1) The beauty of the scientific method, including the process of peer review, is that you can't just make the results say whatever you want. The process is designed to eliminate bias. You're just mad because you don't like the results. But being mad that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 5 doesn't mean mathematitions have it out for you.

"bias" is a highly subjective term.  If everyone involved in the peer review process is an Atheist then any conclusion falling outside the usual materialist or uniformitarianist norm will be rejected out of hand.  How is that not an inherent bias in the system?

Well given that science is defined as the study of the materialist observable universe any theory outside that, such as the supernatural and religious are beyond its scope.
It would be like saying that cooks are biased because they can bake cakes and not repair cars.
If the religious hypothesizes wish to be recognized within the realm of science, they will have to remain within the boundaries of science specifically the observable material world.

Quote
That is the ultimate solution to the problem of the religious, isn't it?  At least it always has been in any country where Atheism becomes the rule rather than the exception.
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

On the other hand last I checked the Scandinavian countries are currently predominantly atheist and happen to be one of the most socially prosperous nations in the world.

On a side note:
Even if a god, deity or supernatural entity did interact in the physical material universe and we could test it, the science of the interaction would be on how the deity achieved such interactions. For example a ghost lifts a box, science doe not particularly care about the ghost but in the application of physical forces that allow the box to be lifted and the origination of the energy involved in the action and that energies effects on the surroundings.
In this process the primal nature of the ghost will probably be discovered, but the nature of the science is to study the observable material world and figuring out how something unsubstantial can affect an object of mass. It is not enough to just say that the ghost lifted the box, the mechanics of the how are the most important.
Science cares not if a god created the universe, it seeks only to know how that universe was created mechanically.

Personally, the way science answers the questions as to how things work is one of the most fascinating aspects of science.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on February 27, 2013, 08:24:19 am
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Katsuro on February 27, 2013, 08:31:49 am
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.

Yeah like what, all two of them?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Sylvana on February 27, 2013, 08:34:46 am
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.

You are right, I should have been far more precise.
In all countries that people are threatened and persecuted for religion. A very small percentage were atheist, but all were run by despotic authoritarian oligarchs and the majority were and are conservative and religious.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: ThunderWulf on February 27, 2013, 08:38:40 am
Okay, I visited the troll's youtube page and watched a couple of his videos last night.  I'm not entirely certain he's not a poe.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Katsuro on February 27, 2013, 08:46:10 am
Okay, I visited the troll's youtube page and watched a couple of his videos last night.  I'm not entirely certain he's not a poe.

I'm pretty sure he is a poe/troll.  But I think we're giving him the benifit of the doubt for our own amuesment until either he or we get bored. I had a go and I'm already bored.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rime on February 27, 2013, 09:13:40 am
That is the ultimate solution to the problem of the religious, isn't it?  At least it always has been in any country where Atheism becomes the rule rather than the exception.

I don't want to speak on John E's behalf, because I believe he can do so quite well, so I hope he'll forgive me for this as a response to your conclusion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zva7I60LpeE
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on February 27, 2013, 09:16:21 am
"bias" is a highly subjective term.  If everyone involved in the peer review process is an Atheist then any conclusion falling outside the usual materialist or uniformitarianist norm will be rejected out of hand.  How is that not an inherent bias in the system?

That is the ultimate solution to the problem of the religious, isn't it?  At least it always has been in any country where Atheism becomes the rule rather than the exception.

For the first one, you have to make a lot of assumptions. Firstly, that all scientists are atheists, which they are not. Secondly, that all scientists have some secret agreement to reach a specific conclusion, which they do not. Third, that all atheist scientists actively reject the idea of a god, when the reality is that most atheists simply see no evidence to base such a belief on. To most atheists, your God is in the same boat as the invisible pink unicorn--sure, it might exist, but believing that it does with no evidence is just silly.

And no, a collection of old books that are true because they say they are true does not count as evidence. I can scribble "this book is totally true" in a Harry Potter novel, and that gives it no increased influence on reality.

As for the second point quoted above, that is simply not true. The ultimate solution to dealing with the religious is education, as the increasing rates of atheism in the developed world show, better education leads to fewer theists. Incarceration is for crimes, and no matter how stupid beliefs might be, beliefs are not a crime. Again, this is contrary to stance of most religious nations over the course of history, where beliefs outside of those sanctioned by the state were considered a crime.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 27, 2013, 10:09:13 am
"bias" is a highly subjective term.
Not really.

Quote
If everyone involved in the peer review process is an Atheist then any conclusion falling outside the usual materialist or uniformitarianist norm will be rejected out of hand.  How is that not an inherent bias in the system?
You do realize that not all scientists are atheists, right?

Quote
That is the ultimate solution to the problem of the religious, isn't it?  At least it always has been in any country where Atheism becomes the rule rather than the exception.
No and no. We have this thing here in America called freedom of speech. As long as you're not slandering anyone, yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, or inciting violence, you can say whatever you want. And that's the the way I (and most atheists) like it.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 27, 2013, 10:24:10 am
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.
I notice you haven't given examples of any of these atheist police states.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Auri-El on February 27, 2013, 11:33:59 am
What about all the officially religious states that are/have been dictatorships that oppress other religions, science, certain ethnic groups, etc.? The lack of church-run states that accept all views proves they can't exist. So, since atheist-run states are out, and church-run states are out, what's left? Maybe we should just elect a cat as the president/prime minister already.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 27, 2013, 11:49:07 am
Maybe we should just elect a cat as the president/prime minister already.
I'd vote for Grumpy Cat.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Distind on February 27, 2013, 03:57:31 pm
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.

As a fan of history I can easily point out that in just about every one of those cases the standard claim against atheists of worshipping the state was entirely true. That or a head of state. Either of which rather defeats any purpose of atheism.

It wasn't so much a dedication to atheism, but seeing religion as a force capable of undermining the independence of nations. See the catholic arguments against american healthcare laws, they aren't entirely wrong about it's potential influence. Nationalism was a far larger motivation in this senarios than the proposition of atheism. Though frankly the evangelical right of the US is a wonderful example of how religion and nationalism can merge into a beast which no one really knows how to handle. One that has openly advocated the removal of anyone who dissagrees with them, much like the nationalist atheists(who simply took god out off "for god and country") you're referencing.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: davedan on February 27, 2013, 04:40:42 pm
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.
I notice you haven't given examples of any of these atheist police states.
Rabbit, USSR and Khmer Rouge Cambodia. Both atheist states that did persecute the religious. But as Sylvana pointed out that was because they were oligarchies/ police states. Whereas Scandanavia (apart from the nudity, the saunas and the whipping each other with sticks) is just dandy.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 27, 2013, 04:48:50 pm
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.
I notice you haven't given examples of any of these atheist police states.
Rabbit, USSR and Khmer Rouge Cambodia. Both atheist states that did persecute the religious. But as Sylvana pointed out that was because they were oligarchies/ police states. Whereas Scandanavia (apart from the nudity, the saunas and the whipping each other with sticks) is just dandy.
I'm well aware of this, but I kinda wanted AE to answer it.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: davedan on February 27, 2013, 04:53:40 pm
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.
I notice you haven't given examples of any of these atheist police states.
Rabbit, USSR and Khmer Rouge Cambodia. Both atheist states that did persecute the religious. But as Sylvana pointed out that was because they were oligarchies/ police states. Whereas Scandanavia (apart from the nudity, the saunas and the whipping each other with sticks) is just dandy.
I'm well aware of this, but I kinda wanted AE to answer it.

Oh Mea Culpa.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 27, 2013, 04:55:41 pm
Name a single country where Atheism is / was the norm that was not ruled by an despotic authoritarian leader on a power trip. You will find that the general religion of a nation has very little to do with attacks on the religious and more to do with how religious institutions threaten the absolute power of the oligarch.

Those words damn you more than you realise.

The lack of an officially Atheist society that wasn't a dictatorship with a secret police force dedicated to committing pogroms against those subversive theists would tend to indicate that ALL officially Atheist societies end up that way.
I notice you haven't given examples of any of these atheist police states.
Rabbit, USSR and Khmer Rouge Cambodia. Both atheist states that did persecute the religious. But as Sylvana pointed out that was because they were oligarchies/ police states. Whereas Scandanavia (apart from the nudity, the saunas and the whipping each other with sticks) is just dandy.
I'm well aware of this, but I kinda wanted AE to answer it.

Oh Mea Culpa.
It's okay--looking back on it he never would've answered me anyway.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 27, 2013, 05:44:40 pm
Rabbit, USSR and Khmer Rouge Cambodia. Both atheist states that did persecute the religious. But as Sylvana pointed out that was because they were oligarchies/ police states. Whereas Scandanavia (apart from the nudity, the saunas and the whipping each other with sticks) is just dandy.
What's wrong with nude scandinavians?

(http://data.whicdn.com/images/949714/Mr-January-eric-northman-7221354-492-604_large.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: rookie on February 27, 2013, 11:11:03 pm
John! Why did you shave your beard?!
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on February 27, 2013, 11:49:58 pm
Flattery will get you a fuck yeah.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: ironbite on February 28, 2013, 12:47:15 am
Gotta admit this troll has staying power.

Ironbite-but keep going...I'm getting frisky.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Material Defender on February 28, 2013, 09:39:58 am
I might be paying attention to this if what he was saying wasn't trite dribble.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on February 28, 2013, 01:20:00 pm
Gotta admit this troll has staying power.

Ironbite-but keep going...I'm getting frisky.
Down, boy.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Radiation on March 01, 2013, 06:03:49 pm
I have my personal beliefs regarding the supernatural, but I tend to be more skeptical and science-based first before I assume something is supernatural. From my understanding, science is based on the observable world and as someone else said, the material world. That is, through observing, questioning and testing something that is seemingly tangible. It is through this process that we discover things about the universe and our world. Science is what got us out of the dark ages so to say and made life a bit easier as in the case of discovering and synthesizing chemicals to produce medications, studying diseases in order to find medications or cures for them, etc.

Religion is basically an institution that usually is fear-based and most of the modern world is moving away from fear based dogmas and seeking out other spiritual paths for personal enlightenment. Atheism is a lack of beliefs so they don't have a set doctrine or dogma to "preach" to others and also, not all scientists are atheists, there are many who are in various scientific field that have beliefs in a God or some other deity. Some might even see the awe in things such as cells, celestial bodies, chemistry etc and it reinforces their belief in a Higher Power, however, in conducting studies, they must check their personal beliefs at the store and focus on what can be observed or the hypothesis that they are testing and so forth, in order to not contaminate their studies with personal bias.

Otherwise, this AE guy is pretty damn amusing.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Patches on March 02, 2013, 07:56:00 pm
Back to the original topic of this thread, I went looking for a video to explain the Mars retrograde motion to see how geocentrists would explain it... and apparently they've come up with something (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svFa6hMeTY).

I commented that you can draw hypothetical orbit diagrams all day, and they don't mean squat if you can't explain the forces involved.  Now one of the "teach the controversy" commenters is going all "Newtonian physics have no place in 2013, learn some relativity and all will become clear!" tripe on me.

The video made me laugh out loud when the narrator wondered why evolution had yet to provide an explanation for stable orbits (and naturally he gives no mechanism for how the hell HIS proposed orbits could ever be stable).
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Random Gal on March 02, 2013, 08:27:57 pm
Back to the original topic of this thread, I went looking for a video to explain the Mars retrograde motion to see how geocentrists would explain it... and apparently they've come up with something (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3svFa6hMeTY).

I commented that you can draw hypothetical orbit diagrams all day, and they don't mean squat if you can't explain the forces involved.  Now one of the "teach the controversy" commenters is going all "Newtonian physics have no place in 2013, learn some relativity and all will become clear!" tripe on me.

The video made me laugh out loud when the narrator wondered why evolution had yet to provide an explanation for stable orbits (and naturally he gives no mechanism for how the hell HIS proposed orbits could ever be stable).

Because Goddidit, obviously.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on March 02, 2013, 09:55:23 pm
Apparently, hot mostly-naked Swedish men scare off fundies/trolls.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Thejebusfire on March 03, 2013, 12:29:38 am
How did I miss this thread?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Alehksunos on March 03, 2013, 01:35:48 am
Wondered what Heliocentrism is...

Then discovered it is the widely accepted (and one with outstanding evidence of) idea that the sun is the center of the known galaxy we live in...

This man who says "The Atheist" should "self-censor," even in Jack Chick-grade stupidity believes Catholicism and Islam is at fault of Atheism (what the fuck?) believes this is all bunk... (Should I also mention it was the Catholic Church that imprisoned Copernicus until his death over this discovery?)

...I now even more so dearly wish this man is a poe.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on March 03, 2013, 01:58:32 am
Wondered what Heliocentrism is...

Then discovered it is the widely accepted (and one with outstanding evidence of) idea that the sun is the center of the known galaxy we live in...

This man who says "The Atheist" should "self-censor," even in Jack Chick-grade stupidity believes Catholicism and Islam is at fault of Atheism (what the fuck?) believes this is all bunk... (Should I also mention it was the Catholic Church that imprisoned Copernicus until his death over this discovery?)

...I now even more so dearly wish this man is a poe.

A small correction, the sun is the center of our solar system, not our galaxy. The center of our galaxy is a supermassive black hole. Our sun resides in one of the "arms" of the Milky Way.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Patches on March 03, 2013, 08:34:05 am
Actually, from the guy who's arguing with me on YouTube, apparently geocentrists (who think the earth is the center of the universe), believe that heliocentrism states the same thing, just with the sun:
Quote
Okay, lets do heliocentric as well. Your position is that the ENTIRE milky way and the ENTIRE universe has to revolve around the sun and at some point, objects must exceed speed of light. Therefore the heliocentric model is wrong too? You have to see that your logic is flawed. Is this really that hard to see?
I also like that he completely ignored my question of how the geocentric model explains Lagrange points.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on March 03, 2013, 12:18:48 pm
Actually, from the guy who's arguing with me on YouTube, apparently geocentrists (who think the earth is the center of the universe), believe that heliocentrism states the same thing, just with the sun:
Quote
Okay, lets do heliocentric as well. Your position is that the ENTIRE milky way and the ENTIRE universe has to revolve around the sun and at some point, objects must exceed speed of light. Therefore the heliocentric model is wrong too? You have to see that your logic is flawed. Is this really that hard to see?
I also like that he completely ignored my question of how the geocentric model explains Lagrange points.

La Grange points?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vppbdf-qtGU
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on March 03, 2013, 12:25:42 pm
Lagrange points are five 5 points found within the gravitational fields of two objects where a third object of comparatively negligible mass can be held in perfect relation to them as those two objects orbit their common center of mass.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Patches on March 03, 2013, 09:12:46 pm
Man, this guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

Quote
Heliocentric model indicates that the SUN is the focal point of the universe, hence helio (sun) centric. And because the modern physics shows that the only focal point of the universe is at the exact time of the big bang, neither heliocentric and geocentric models are absolutely correct. Therefore, both models are equally valid when simply presenting as a model. It is just a matter of what to put in the middle. And about Lagrange points, how the fuck can you NOT explain with geocentric model????

That's right, guys.  Apparently all this time, we've believed that the entire universe revolves around the sun.  The proof is that both "heliocentric" and "geocentric" contain the root "centric".  Mind = blown.

Lagrange points are five 5 points found within the gravitational fields of two objects where a third object of comparatively negligible mass can be held in perfect relation to them as those two objects orbit their common center of mass.

Put more simply, Lagrange points are points in the gravitational fields between two objects in an orbital pattern where the gravitational force exerted by one object equals the gravitational force exerted by the other object in the opposite direction, effectively creating a point with zero net gravitational pull (in layman's terms: the boundary points in space that define the transition between falling towards the sun vs. falling towards the earth).  L1 exists in all two-body systems, but L2-L5 only exist in rotating systems (due to centripetal forces acting in an outward direction), and are located at 0, 60, and 180 degrees about the center of rotation.

Basically, if the earth was stationary, it would only have the L1 point in relation to the sun.  However, it has all 5.  We have satellites sitting at L2, L4, and L5.  The only way for this to be possible is if the earth was revolving around the sun.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on March 04, 2013, 06:44:11 am
Man, this guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

Quote
Heliocentric model indicates that the SUN is the focal point of the universe, hence helio (sun) centric. And because the modern physics shows that the only focal point of the universe is at the exact time of the big bang, neither heliocentric and geocentric models are absolutely correct. Therefore, both models are equally valid when simply presenting as a model. It is just a matter of what to put in the middle. And about Lagrange points, how the fuck can you NOT explain with geocentric model????

That's right, guys.  Apparently all this time, we've believed that the entire universe revolves around the sun.  The proof is that both "heliocentric" and "geocentric" contain the root "centric".  Mind = blown.

And yet, that is what the word means.  The Atheist model is even sillier than that, you need to come up with a new label for it ASAP.

Lagrange points are five 5 points found within the gravitational fields of two objects where a third object of comparatively negligible mass can be held in perfect relation to them as those two objects orbit their common center of mass.

Put more simply, Lagrange points are points in the gravitational fields between two objects in an orbital pattern where the gravitational force exerted by one object equals the gravitational force exerted by the other object in the opposite direction, effectively creating a point with zero net gravitational pull (in layman's terms: the boundary points in space that define the transition between falling towards the sun vs. falling towards the earth).  L1 exists in all two-body systems, but L2-L5 only exist in rotating systems (due to centripetal forces acting in an outward direction), and are located at 0, 60, and 180 degrees about the center of rotation.

Basically, if the earth was stationary, it would only have the L1 point in relation to the sun.  However, it has all 5.  We have satellites sitting at L2, L4, and L5.  The only way for this to be possible is if the earth was revolving around the sun.
[/quote]

Again, this is an inverted truth.  You say "we couldn't have L2-L5 points if the earth were stationary", but you conveniently miss out the rotation of the sun about us. 

Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Patches on March 04, 2013, 07:03:27 am
Man, this guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

Quote
Heliocentric model indicates that the SUN is the focal point of the universe, hence helio (sun) centric. And because the modern physics shows that the only focal point of the universe is at the exact time of the big bang, neither heliocentric and geocentric models are absolutely correct. Therefore, both models are equally valid when simply presenting as a model. It is just a matter of what to put in the middle. And about Lagrange points, how the fuck can you NOT explain with geocentric model????

That's right, guys.  Apparently all this time, we've believed that the entire universe revolves around the sun.  The proof is that both "heliocentric" and "geocentric" contain the root "centric".  Mind = blown.

And yet, that is what the word means.  The Atheist model is even sillier than that, you need to come up with a new label for it ASAP.

I'm glad you've so valiantly taken a word, redefined it in a way that no one uses, and fight the good fight against it. 

I'm currently fighting against homosexuality.  Homosexuality means you like people, since homo = human, like in homo sapiens.  Don't try to tell me this isn't what it means, you know it's true.  If you've ever liked any human, you are a homosexual, and you cannot deny it.

Quote
Again, this is an inverted truth.  You say "we couldn't have L2-L5 points if the earth were stationary", but you conveniently miss out the rotation of the sun about us.

Well, if the sun revolved about us, any equation involving gravity would fall apart, anyway, since you'd be requiring a larger mass to orbit a smaller mass, which the very theory of gravity itself does not allow for.  But assuming that somehow this was possible, the L2-L5 points would lie on a circle about the earth rather than about the sun.  This is not what is observed.  We have satellites at L2, L4, and L5; we know where they are, and we make use of their unique gravitational properties.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Askold on March 04, 2013, 07:33:12 am
Hey AE,

Heliocentrism means that the sun is the center of our solar system. Not that it is the center of the universe.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on March 04, 2013, 09:20:07 am
Hey AE,

Heliocentrism means that the sun is the center of our solar system. Not that it is the center of the universe.

The word means "sun centred", what it is the centre of is not specified etymologically.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: rookie on March 04, 2013, 09:54:17 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on March 04, 2013, 09:58:48 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on March 04, 2013, 10:07:09 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.
Yeah, we should cling to nonsense that's even more outdated. Tell me, are you constantly worried about falling off the edge of the Earth?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on March 04, 2013, 10:41:13 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

As opposed to that created by who knows who from 2000 and more years ago and put into a mish-mosh called The Bible.  Got it.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: R. U. Sirius on March 04, 2013, 10:52:24 am
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6966544128/hBA3D5664/)

That is all.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Yaezakura on March 04, 2013, 11:37:24 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

The amusing thing here is that we don't. We took what they gave and built upon it, corrected it where it was flawed, and moved on with progress. That is the beautiful thing about science--it's never content to rest on its laurels, and it never stops attempting to prove itself wrong.

You see, you have this idea stuck in your head that science is afraid to be proven wrong, because that's your own experience. If your religion is proven wrong, you are left with nothing. But proving itself wrong is the very foundation of the scientific method. You see, the way science works is, someone comes up with an idea, and then does his very best to break that idea to smithereens. If he can't, he passes it on to all the other people who study in the same field, and they all try to break it to smithereens. If no one can break the idea, then and only then do scientists grudgingly accept that it might be true--all while still trying to find new ways to break it.

This happens every day, with everything science believes to be true. Do you honestly think no one is trying to disprove Darwin? The first guy who does has a mountain of awards and money waiting for him. But no one ever has, because the mechanism works better than any other idea ever postulated. Darwin's knowledge was admittedly limited by his time--for instance, he had no idea what DNA and genes were when he proposed the idea of evolution via random mutation and natural selection. He had no clue what the actual mechanism of change was, what it was that caused a beneficial trait in a parent to be passed on to offspring. But he understood the reason why those offspring fared better than their peers who didn't have that beneficial trait. Every discovery in biology has supported his idea, while not a single fact has been found to disprove it.

Heck, we even use some models we know to be false, because any model is better than no model. Did you know the theory of gravity is inherently broken? As is the theory of relativity? There are scales where they simply no longer apply, but we continue to use them because they are workable for the scales they do function at. Scientists are working every day to better understand the relationships between the forces involved here and come up with new, better ideas--not to spite those who came before, but to honor their memory by expanding the boundaries of human understanding, as the great minds of the past did.

That's the real difference between people like you and people like us. We strive to be proven wrong, because being proven wrong is the only way to gain new knowledge, new understanding. Being proven wrong is the only way to slowly reveal the truth of the universe. But you? You want to believe you already have the truth, and so reject even the most overwhelming of evidence to the contrary. You are content to sit in ignorance, because in ignorance you get to believe you aren't ignorant.

I seriously pity people like you. We only get one shot at life, and you're wasting yours for the promise of a reward you have no way of proving actually exists.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: rookie on March 04, 2013, 02:06:35 pm
AE, your grasp of science is amazing. Truly, it's only bested by those on the mainpage who laugh at the idea that we came from monkeys.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Sylvana on March 05, 2013, 01:52:43 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 05, 2013, 03:24:31 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.

You have to remember, fundies consider anything that isn't a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible to be "poisonous" because it's "leading people away from God's Truth"

By golly, if God says that insects have four legs and that the world is flat, then insects have four legs and the world is flat!  If you see an insect has six legs, YOU'RE WRONG!
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: QueenofHearts on March 05, 2013, 06:37:52 am
All of you are very clearly wrong. I am the center of the universe. Not the sun, not Earth, not God; ME!!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Patches on March 05, 2013, 06:54:44 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.

But don't you see how important it is?  If humans aren't the center of the universe, it means that we're not God's favored creation, and if we're not God's favored creation, then there's just no reason to do anything and everyone would rape and murder and rape all the time.

Really, it's the same argument they give against evolution, because it makes humans less special.  For some reason they think that the ONLY way for human existence to be worth anything, humans have to be the most important, specialest, awesomest things in the universe.  Because if you're not, I mean, what's the point?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Atheism Exposed on March 05, 2013, 07:04:10 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.

Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines deliberately divorced from God's word can't really be considered anything other than social poison.

Generations of kids now have grown up with their minds infiltrated with Atheistic lies, believing that we are each insignificant specks in an irrelevant backwater of this huge universe and therefore you and your actions don't matter one iota. 

Telling children that they are just temporary arrangements of chemicals assembled via random chance is just a calculated move to keep them from discovering the Holy Spirit, personally I consider that child abuse.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Askold on March 05, 2013, 08:32:01 am
Did you do know that this site has several christians and other religious people who have no trouble accepting science? Science and religion do not have to be enemies, we look for them for different reasons.

Religion can give us peace of mind, help those who seem lost in life and comfort those who are troubled.

Science helps us understand how this world in which we live in works.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Sylvana on March 05, 2013, 09:09:03 am
Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines deliberately divorced from God's word can't really be considered anything other than social poison.

Generations of kids now have grown up with their minds infiltrated with Atheistic lies, believing that we are each insignificant specks in an irrelevant backwater of this huge universe and therefore you and your actions don't matter one iota. 

Telling children that they are just temporary arrangements of chemicals assembled via random chance is just a calculated move to keep them from discovering the Holy Spirit, personally I consider that child abuse.

Just to clarify here, are you saying that the telling of lies to children is the social poison, or is it the actual science itself?
Alternatively is the social poison you speak of really just the lack of endorsement for your preferred religion? For example, would you be ok with children being taught something that is absolutely true and has been determined to be true to a supernatural degree but does not follow your religion? In this case the children are not being lied to, but it fails to endorse your religion.

I think we can all agree that lying to children about the truths of this world is child abuse. From that position though we need an objective means of determining the truth to teach to children.

<Unrelated note: I am sure you are a troll now more than ever before, that last post was way too eloquent. either way keep this up its amusing.>
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on March 05, 2013, 09:11:16 am
All of you are very clearly wrong. I am the center of the universe. Not the sun, not Earth, not God; ME!!!!  ;)
I'll accept that ;D
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on March 05, 2013, 09:13:42 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.
Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines ...can't really be considered anything other than social poison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD8ZtM1sWgI

Quote
Generations of kids now have grown up with their minds infiltrated with Atheistic lies, believing that we are each insignificant specks in an irrelevant backwater of this huge universe and therefore you and your actions don't matter one iota. 

Telling children that they are just temporary arrangements of chemicals assembled via random chance is just a calculated move to keep them from discovering the Holy Spirit, personally I consider that child abuse.
And correctly surmising that the Earth revolves around the Sun accomplishes this how?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Scotsgit on March 05, 2013, 11:51:04 am
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.

Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines deliberately divorced from God's word can't really be considered anything other than social poison.

What like that you should divorce someone instead of forgiving them, or lie about them or indeed sleep with your brother's wife?  Or that the richest man in your country should lead its main religious group?  That kind of thing?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rime on March 05, 2013, 03:02:09 pm
Did you do know that this site has several christians and other religious people who have no trouble accepting science? Science and religion do not have to be enemies, we look for them for different reasons.

Religion can give us peace of mind, help those who seem lost in life and comfort those who are troubled.

Science helps us understand how this world in which we live in works.

Fundamentalists have to because science threatens their influence and prestige.  They'd actually have to emulate their savior as opposed to behave like the high priests that had him nailed to a cross for proclaiming he was the messiah.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 05, 2013, 03:14:39 pm
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.

Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines deliberately divorced from God's word can't really be considered anything other than social poison.

Generations of kids now have grown up with their minds infiltrated with Atheistic lies, believing that we are each insignificant specks in an irrelevant backwater of this huge universe and therefore you and your actions don't matter one iota. 

Telling children that they are just temporary arrangements of chemicals assembled via random chance is just a calculated move to keep them from discovering the Holy Spirit, personally I consider that child abuse.

Called the type of argument he was going for!

Atheism Exposed, you're really predictable :P
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Rime on March 06, 2013, 07:49:31 am
Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines deliberately divorced from God's word can't really be considered anything other than social poison.

Who says that the theory of evolution is divorced from God's word?  He supposedly invented it because it seems pretty intelligent to have lifeforms with the capability to adapt to their environment.

Generations of kids now have grown up with their minds infiltrated with Atheistic lies, believing that we are each insignificant specks in an irrelevant backwater of this huge universe and therefore you and your actions don't matter one iota. 

Just because I believe that justice is a human construct rather than a divine cog in the workings of the universe doesn’t mean I shouldn’t try to make the world around me a better place. Even boiled down to the most utilitarian attitude, if I can aid others to benefit with a little help, almost always, everyone will. Even being a “random collection of molecules” still means that you ARE worth something because you have potential to contribute to and benefit from being part of society.  It is equally feasible to take your opinion that being the result of divine tinkering for a specific purpose; I can regard myself as inherently worth more and superior to others who do believe the same thing and treat them like second class citizens.  Especially when my holy book says so.

Telling children that they are just temporary arrangements of chemicals assembled via random chance is just a calculated move to keep them from discovering the Holy Spirit, personally I consider that child abuse.

You’re bashing the theory of evolution?  Here's your opportunity to make me see the wisdom in believing a deity who was supposedly so smart but needed to completely violate every law he supposedly constructed for the purpose of creating (or is that impressing) mankind; and in addition having to tinker with the universe whenever it didn't seem to be progressing right. 

He couldn’t just set up the creation of the first cell and have everything roll along according to the science He was supposed to have set up?  He had to put on such a vulgar display of power that it would cause even Industrial Light and Magic to curl up into a cataleptic ball from the shame?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: JohnE on March 06, 2013, 01:14:37 pm
Note to christian forumites: I'm still operating under the assumption that AE is for real, but I don't consider him as a poor reflection of christians as a whole. He's just one loon. If anything, he's making the majority look better by comparison.

Note to AE: If you are an atheist troll trying to make christians look bad, you're failing. On the other hand, it occurs to me you might be a christian troll pretending to hold beliefs far more extreme and ridiculous than you actually do, thereby intentionally making most christians look better in comparison, and bringing believers and non-believers together against ideas both agree are absurd, in which case, well played, sir. Well played.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Vypernight on March 07, 2013, 10:26:55 am
Late to the party, but I thought I'd throw in my thoughts as well.






Quote
(a) we have the exact same starfield visible in the night sky every night.  If the earth moved around the sun once per year, the stars in that starfield would change position on a nightly basis, this doesn't happen.

Can be debunked with a $10 telescope from Toys R Us.  Or is Toys R Us in on the atheist conspiracy as well?

Quote
(b) the perfect correlation between the sizes of the moon and sun as seen from earth.  This is the only set of bodies in the KNOWN UNIVERSE where a perfect eclipse is visible.

And if we were living on Draco 3, then Draco 01 and Draco 2 would have the same correlations.  Doesn't mean they're the center as well.   

Quote
(c) the Moon's tidal force upon the earth is far stronger than the sun's.  According the The Atheist Newton's gravitational equation and the mass/distance figures mandated by the heliocentric worldview, F = GmM / r^2, the Sun's gravitational pull upon the Earth is more than 100 times larger than the Moon's, yet the Moon exerts a far greater tidal force than the sun upon the earth.  Clearly either the equations underpinning heliocentrism OR the values they ascribe to the heavenly bodies are WRONG!

The moon is closer so of course it's stronger.  Also I don't get people using scientific principles to disprove science.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Askold on March 07, 2013, 11:22:00 am
The moon is closer so of course it's stronger.  Also I don't get people using scientific principles to disprove science.

Well to be fair, that is how you disprove and improve science. Find a hole in the theory, find something that does not match with the other scientific formulas and you know that something is wrong.

Part 2 should be making a new theory which works with the new data and is closer to the truth.

Concerning the tidal effects of the sun and moon though. Turns out this is more complicated than you might think. In fact scientists have been wondering about this and I quickly found a few articles about it, some quite suprising.

This article is based on the most commonly used theory:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/%E2%80%8Chbase/tide.html

Quote
Even though the Sun is 391 times as far away from the Earth as the Moon, its force on the Earth is about 175 times as large. Yet its tidal effect is smaller than that of the Moon because tides are caused by the difference in gravity field across the Earth. The Earth's diameter is such a small fraction of the Sun-Earth distance that the gravity field changes by only a factor of 1.00017 across the Earth. The actual force differential across the Earth is 0.00017 x 174.5 = 0.03 times the Moon's force, compared to 0.068 difference across the Earth for the Moon's force. The actual tidal influence then is then 44% of that of the Moon.

This article also mentions and explains the other theories, but my meager understanding of math is not enough for this. It does provide sources for those interested in the subject.
http://www.gsjournal.net/old/mathis/mathis21.htm



So... Does this mean that science has failed? No, it simply means that the current theories must be improved or replaced. We have known that Newton's model isn't 100% correct for years. But we know that in some aspects it is close enough. We use it in some matters and when we need more precise calculations and handle stuff like astronomy and planets and their gravitational effects we turn to Einstein's theories which are one step better than Newton's.

Teachings Newtons laws is like putting a child on a tricycle: You let him learn how to drive that and once he has the basics and has grown a bit you can give him a two-wheeled bike. But you still give him training wheels. And so we advance, one step at a time, we still have not solved the mysteries of the universe but we keep getting closer to it.

Still... The heliocentric system has stood for centuries (longer in some civilisations) because no one has been able to disprove it. Earth centered solar-system model would not be better in explaining the tides and it would fail in other details as well so we stick to heliocentrism.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: chitoryu12 on March 09, 2013, 09:42:03 pm
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.

Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines deliberately divorced from God's word can't really be considered anything other than social poison.

Generations of kids now have grown up with their minds infiltrated with Atheistic lies, believing that we are each insignificant specks in an irrelevant backwater of this huge universe and therefore you and your actions don't matter one iota. 

Telling children that they are just temporary arrangements of chemicals assembled via random chance is just a calculated move to keep them from discovering the Holy Spirit, personally I consider that child abuse.

You literally have not responded properly to a single point anyone has raised here. You've just kinda babbled without explaining why you're correct and we're not.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Star Cluster on March 10, 2013, 02:06:59 pm
You literally have not responded properly to a single point anyone has raised here. You've just kinda babbled without explaining why you're correct and we're not.

Exactly.  There have been three times in this thread that I showed where he was completely wrong on things he had said and he hasn't responded to any of them yet.  But the reason he doesn't is he can't.  He doesn't have anything whatsoever that can be used to even put a dent into scientifically deduced conclusions and results.

The more I read his posts, the more I am also convinced he is a Poe.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: The Illusive Man on March 21, 2013, 03:08:46 pm
(http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Back-In-The-Day-When-Trolling-Meant-Something-Meme.jpg)
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Katsuro on March 21, 2013, 03:12:19 pm
Christ on a raspberry flavoured popsicle, this thread is still alive?

Why?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on March 22, 2013, 03:43:27 am
Because cute animals!

(http://lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/rightmer-spawn-scaled.jpg)

Shit...

...sorry!

CUTE animals!

(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6070542080/h39D9F9A8/)

That's cute...right?
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: dpareja on March 22, 2013, 03:50:55 am
Because cute animals!

(http://lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/rightmer-spawn-scaled.jpg)


That's adorable.
Title: Re: Heliocentrism, the most widely accepted lie ever told?
Post by: kiwimac on March 22, 2013, 05:42:48 pm
You're correct, AE. We use the phrase because in the "center" of our solar system is the "sun". Blows the mind, doesn't it?

Not so much, actually.  The idea that people are still clinging to outdated nonsense produced by Copernicus and Galileo and Darwin would be amusing if it wasn't so poisonous to society.

Wait? Are you actually trying to imply that heliocentric theory and a spherical earth are poisoning our society? How? I can kind of see how evolution can possibly harm society, it does not actually, but it has room for abuse, but fundamental observations of our planet and universe? Observations that barely affect our lives somehow poison our society? That's special.

Except they DO affect your lives in that they colour your entire worldview.  Filling kids' heads with false doctrines deliberately divorced from God's word can't really be considered anything other than social poison.

Generations of kids now have grown up with their minds infiltrated with Atheistic lies, believing that we are each insignificant specks in an irrelevant backwater of this huge universe and therefore you and your actions don't matter one iota. 

Telling children that they are just temporary arrangements of chemicals assembled via random chance is just a calculated move to keep them from discovering the Holy Spirit, personally I consider that child abuse.


As a Christian, I find your attitude foolish.