Author Topic: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.  (Read 13893 times)

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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2012, 10:26:39 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.
I've noticed this among disgruntled MRAs. They tend to bleat about how they are such "nice guys" to women, yet women only want to date "thugs" and "bad boys". Then they go on to spout garbage that's more misogynist than anything a "bad boy" could ever conceive of, while feeling entitled to sex for treating women like, I dunno, actual people. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talked about people who brag about "doing shit they're supposed to do".

If a guy is being nice only because he wants a date or sex, then he's not a nice.
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 10:59:16 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.
I've noticed this among disgruntled MRAs. They tend to bleat about how they are such "nice guys" to women, yet women only want to date "thugs" and "bad boys". Then they go on to spout garbage that's more misogynist than anything a "bad boy" could ever conceive of, while feeling entitled to sex for treating women like, I dunno, actual people. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talked about people who brag about "doing shit they're supposed to do".

If a guy is being nice only because he wants a date or sex, then he's not a nice.
That too.

Offline Material Defender

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 11:49:22 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.
I've noticed this among disgruntled MRAs. They tend to bleat about how they are such "nice guys" to women, yet women only want to date "thugs" and "bad boys". Then they go on to spout garbage that's more misogynist than anything a "bad boy" could ever conceive of, while feeling entitled to sex for treating women like, I dunno, actual people. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talked about people who brag about "doing shit they're supposed to do".

If a guy is being nice only because he wants a date or sex, then he's not a nice.

I've always thought of it "Friends first, then maybe a date."
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Offline nickiknack

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 11:59:05 pm »
I mean, Jesus Fucking Christ!  They can't even do a Rule 63 pic of Bob Ross without stripping her down to a bra and panties!  Hm...maybe that's a bikini.  Not that it really matters.

Is it wrong that I find Rule 63 Bob Ross to be adorkable looking?? Plus, what's with the bunny in the fro??

Offline syaoranvee

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 02:08:42 am »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.
I've noticed this among disgruntled MRAs. They tend to bleat about how they are such "nice guys" to women, yet women only want to date "thugs" and "bad boys". Then they go on to spout garbage that's more misogynist than anything a "bad boy" could ever conceive of, while feeling entitled to sex for treating women like, I dunno, actual people. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talked about people who brag about "doing shit they're supposed to do".

If a guy is being nice only because he wants a date or sex, then he's not a nice.

I've always thought of it "Friends first, then maybe a date."

The general rule is the longer you put off any sort of romantic interest being known, the more likely the answer is will be no.   There's a point in which a friendship is worth more then the potential of ruining it, these people are the kind of people you can trust.  Only recently has it become a negative to people and generally called the "friendzone".  You're best chances are with people you meet out somewhere or only have a passing association with.

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 02:13:57 am by syaoranvee »

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 02:21:27 am »
It doesn't help that, in the USA at least, there's a social stigma with a guy being "just friends" with a girl.

If a guy is friends with a girl, or multiple girls, people generally tend to think he's gay.  Nope, every interaction between the two genders, unless they are brother and sister, has to be for the development of sex, basically.

I find it fucking retarded.  I'm gay, and there's lots of guys who I'm "just friends" with, and I'm perfectly happy with that.
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 10:39:43 am »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.
I've noticed this among disgruntled MRAs. They tend to bleat about how they are such "nice guys" to women, yet women only want to date "thugs" and "bad boys". Then they go on to spout garbage that's more misogynist than anything a "bad boy" could ever conceive of, while feeling entitled to sex for treating women like, I dunno, actual people. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talked about people who brag about "doing shit they're supposed to do".

If a guy is being nice only because he wants a date or sex, then he's not a nice.

I've always thought of it "Friends first, then maybe a date."

The general rule is the longer you put off any sort of romantic interest being known, the more likely the answer is will be no.   There's a point in which a friendship is worth more then the potential of ruining it, these people are the kind of people you can trust.  Only recently has it become a negative to people and generally called the "friendzone".  You're best chances are with people you meet out somewhere or only have a passing association with.

(click to show/hide)

Heh. I think it's because I grew up autistic, but I have hardly any want to 'date' anyone that I have a passing association with. I have to understand that I could enjoy hanging around a person before I'd have any interest for a deeper commitment.
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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 12:15:51 pm »
I find it fucking retarded.  I'm gay, and there's lots of guys who I'm "just friends" with, and I'm perfectly happy with that.
Yeah I know what you mean. I'm straight and most of my friends are women. I never thought anything of it either.

Offline TheL

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 12:52:40 pm »
In terms of the book cover, while I get the exposure of her breasts and whatnot, part of it could simply be the fact that the illustrator probably never read the book.

That's the frustrating thing about it.  Halfway into the book, we learn about the Awesome Blue Shirt with the embroidery and beadwork around the collar. I.e., the shirt on that last cover.  And you don't know about the curly-coats unless you've at least skimmed the book.  But the one thing that jumps out at you from page 1, and is repeated over and over, is that Petaybee Is Cold.  As in, Alaska-in-winter, 50-below-zero cold.  There are hot springs in some of the caves, but the words "cold," "snow," "ice," and "freezing" are repeated over and over, to the point that you can't really ignore them even if you're trying to.  Artist 1 compensates by having Yana by a hot spring, but Artist 3 has Yana floating in a contextless void.  We see bare chest skin, in an environment where baring anything is to risk it freezing and rotting off.

It's just plain irritating to someone who loves the book in particular and the series in general.

I'm also not sure what significance, if any, to ascribe to the fact that the first cover image was done by a woman and the last one by a man.
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Offline Vypernight

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 04:58:36 pm »
Honestly, my wife looks at women more than I do.  She even had a, 'Virtual Girl' stripper program on her computer.
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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2012, 05:23:31 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.
I've noticed this among disgruntled MRAs. They tend to bleat about how they are such "nice guys" to women, yet women only want to date "thugs" and "bad boys". Then they go on to spout garbage that's more misogynist than anything a "bad boy" could ever conceive of, while feeling entitled to sex for treating women like, I dunno, actual people. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talked about people who brag about "doing shit they're supposed to do".

If a guy is being nice only because he wants a date or sex, then he's not a nice.

I've always thought of it "Friends first, then maybe a date."

The general rule is the longer you put off any sort of romantic interest being known, the more likely the answer is will be no.   There's a point in which a friendship is worth more then the potential of ruining it, these people are the kind of people you can trust.  Only recently has it become a negative to people and generally called the "friendzone".  You're best chances are with people you meet out somewhere or only have a passing association with.

(click to show/hide)

Heh. I think it's because I grew up autistic, but I have hardly any want to 'date' anyone that I have a passing association with. I have to understand that I could enjoy hanging around a person before I'd have any interest for a deeper commitment.

Of course you want to be friends with a girl before you date her. I'm talking about men who only talk to women because they want to have sex or romance, and secretly don't care about them. There's nothing wrong with wanting a date and being nice to a girl to see if she's dating material, but when a guy gets rejected by a girl he shouldn't think he's been wronged.
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Offline Radiation

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2012, 07:58:12 pm »
I may be reading too much into it, but on the other hand, teenagers today are saying things that disturb me about the role of women in society.  (Yes, I know, I'm becoming an old crank at 27.)  There is this expectation by teenage boys nowadays that ALL young women must have a 24" waist, that ALL young women must have a perfect face with no blemishes, that ALL young women must look exactly like Photoshopped pictures in magazines and porn.  Admittedly, there were idiots who thought such depictions of women were accurate 10 or 15 years ago, but it didn't seem to be nearly as ubiquitous as it is now.  And 15 years ago, people weren't calling size-2 women "fat cows" and being agreed with.  There are too many of them for it to just be an army of trolls.

These crazy ideas have to be coming from somewhere.  You don't just wake up one morning and say, "hey, I think I'll treat people this way instead of that way."  The way you are treated, and the way you see other people treating each other, and the way people are depicted on the covers of books and magazines, affect the way you treat other people as a teenager and an adult.

So much this. I would love it if comics, the media et.al. would start portraying women that are between 14-16 sizes and in different heights (ex. 5' 3.5") in a way that is strong, confident, fighters, etc. In other words, in roles that are not the stereotypical lonely, ugly, gluttonous fat girls. I think it would be a boost to young girls' self esteem and makes them think that they could be a strong, confident woman themselves and will have someone where they say "she looks like me" and to be relate-able to.

As for the size 2 being called a "fat cow." I don't know much about this but I do know that the thin, emaciated look came around in the 70's with the supermodel Twiggy. Calvin Klein was the one that really pushed that look with their models in 1990's IIRC. Either way, I would not be surprised now with the so-called "war on obesity" (not sure who declared that, the Bush Admin, or the Obama Admin, but I do know that Michelle Obama has a program called "Let's Move" and has claimed that she will eradicated childhood obesity in 10 years, she stated this around 2008, 2009.) has amped up double time in the past 4 years and along with shows like "The Biggest Loser" which has unrealistic and unhealthy weight loss goals for its contestants (one of who was the 3rd season winner and came out and discussed the unhealthy, desperate ways of how she and other contestants tried to get rid of their weight, another who developed an eating disorder as well as how the trainers, the staff et.al. were abusive to them.) is being touted basically as "well, if these fat asses can lose weight in so little time, then I can as well!" "Fat people can exercise, they just don't want to," "fat people are costing us money when they get sick!" and a lot of other anti-fat or fatophobic comments. Not to mention that shows like "Here comes Honey Boo Boo," "Toddlers and Tiaras," etc. portray fat people in a negative light and often times exaggerate as well as confirm the negative stereotypes of fat people in general. I am not sure how this makes Americans look like to the rest of the world, but a recent excuse as to why we should wage war against the so-called "obesity epidemic" is that people outside the USA see American citizens through the lens of reality shows like those that are listed above.

Either way, I feel that by creating characters of obese people (of women in particular) in non-sterotypical roles would probably be a boost to many women, particularly that of young women and girls' self esteem and confidence.

Sorry about the long, probably unrelated rant... I have been thinking about this the past couple of days.
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Offline Material Defender

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2012, 11:33:01 pm »
Meanwhile, back a couple hundred years ago the guys all loved the big girls.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2012, 11:53:42 pm »
Meanwhile, back a couple hundred years ago the guys all loved the big girls.
Some of us still do, or at the very least realize that within reason, who they are is more important that what they look like. I only put the within reason caveat because I will freely admit that physical attraction does play a role. I wouldn't trade my little chubette of 20 years for the world and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't trade her pudgy old husband either. We all get old and ugly, if love is going to endure, you need something more than aesthetics.

Offline Jack Mann

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2012, 12:23:11 pm »
I really liked Six Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person, by David Wong.  As he says, it's not enough to be a nice guy.  That should be the absolute baseline.  It's like saying "I have legs, so I should get the gold medal."  And frankly, even though a lot of women do end up with assholes, I think a lot more often, it's the "nice guy" deciding the other man must be an asshole because he "took" the girl away from him.
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