Video Game Thread 2.0

[chitoryu12]

The original one can only be played on DOS, meaning that it's effectively legal to emulate it. This link on what's as close as you'll get to an official System Shock fan forum packages the emulator with the game, so all you need to do is download, follow the instructions given when you start the game, and play.

Emulation is fine, yes. But only if either the game is freeware or you've already paid for it. System Shock is not freeware and since I don't already own a copy, downloading it for free would be piracy.

It's usually listed as abandonware, which is why I emphasized that it's legal. The creator and publisher shut down over a decade ago, the game ceased production in the 90s (and finding an actual copy is like finding gold, since they only sold 170,000 copies), and extremely few computers can play it without emulation and a digital copy ready for it. The one I linked is actually a fan-made version specifically built for emulation on modern computers. Finding ethical objections in it is rather silly by any logical or moral standard; almost nobody would ever be able to play it otherwise.

[Art Vandelay]

The original one can only be played on DOS, meaning that it's effectively legal to emulate it. This link on what's as close as you'll get to an official System Shock fan forum packages the emulator with the game, so all you need to do is download, follow the instructions given when you start the game, and play.

Emulation is fine, yes. But only if either the game is freeware or you've already paid for it. System Shock is not freeware and since I don't already own a copy, downloading it for free would be piracy.

It's usually listed as abandonware, which is why I emphasized that it's legal. The creator and publisher shut down over a decade ago, the game ceased production in the 90s (and finding an actual copy is like finding gold, since they only sold 170,000 copies), and extremely few computers can play it without emulation and a digital copy ready for it. The one I linked is actually a fan-made version specifically built for emulation on modern computers. Finding ethical objections in it is rather silly by any logical or moral standard; almost nobody would ever be able to play it otherwise.

You know that abandonware isn't actually a thing, legally speaking, right? It's a fanmade term for commercial software that's no longer being sold anywhere, not an actual software license. From what I've found out, the rights to System Shock are now held by EA and it's not been made freeware or anything of the sort, so it's still not legal to download for free.

[kefkaownsall]

What about Afterlife the old Lucas arts sim

[chitoryu12]

Well, it hasn't been in manufacture for many years and every copy has been sold. It's not available for legal digital distribution anywhere either. The copyright holders have literally made all of the money that they will ever make on it as long as they don't begin reselling it. If you're not willing to download something that hasn't actually been offered since the 90s, then there's a good chance that you will never play it unless you want to drop serious dough. These are the only copies I can find, all secondhand and in the realm of $72 to $125. Meaning that EA is making no money off of your sale.

Morally objecting to freely downloading a game that has sold all of the copies that it can sell, has not been in production for a long time, and cannot run without emulation due to its age is akin to morally objecting to privately building a Model T on the basis that it's stealing profit from Ford.

[Art Vandelay]

I wasn't talking about the ethics of it. Ethically, I don't mind as long as it's truly not being sold anywhere by the publisher (many of these abandonware web sites are quite lax on this front) and that should it ever come up for sale again, any who downloaded a copy for free then pay for it. My objection was your claim that it's legal, especially because you seemed to be implying that you think "abandonware" is an actual software license.

[chitoryu12]

It's legal in the sense that not a single soul would ever prosecute it, and pretty much nobody would even bat an eye. I'm fairly confident that the original developers and publishers would be perfectly fine with it, seeing as how nobody is making money from it and it brings new fans to the IP. EA would have to be completely evil to try and sto--wait, shit....

[Art Vandelay]

It's legal in the sense...

No, it's not. Legality is not a subjective thing. Just because illegal actions aren't prosecuted doesn't make them any less illegal.

[chitoryu12]

So are you afraid of prosecution?

[Witchyjoshy]

So are you afraid of prosecution?

Why does he have to be afraid of prosecution before he can simply not want to do something illegal?

[Bender_Rodríguez]

I just played through Batman: Arkham Asylum again.  That is one hell of a good game.  I"m at 85% complete.  I managed to get all of the Riddler stuff this time too.  Damn what a good feeling.  Now I just have to master all the challenges.  Which means I'm probably done for a while.  Time to move on to Arkam City

[agentCDE]

So I got the new XCOM with Bioshock: Infinite, right?

Turns out I'm actually being sucked into XCOM. I just finished my second run on normal (Ironman mode this time) and am trying to start up a Classic Ironman run.

Classic difficulty is not like normal difficulty.

Normal is fair. Normal is fun. Normal is good.

Classic... lives up to its name. The classic, X-COM: UFO Defense, would not hesitate to kick you in the junk. Classic XCOM: Enemy Unknown does not, either.

[chitoryu12]

So are you afraid of prosecution?

Why does he have to be afraid of prosecution before he can simply not want to do something illegal?

Unless you're willing to drop close to or more than $100 for the game alone and spend more time and/or money setting up so you can play it because it's so outdated, you're probably not going to get to experience said work. All of the copies that can be sold have been sold, and the copyright holder has made all of the money they can off of the game as long as they continue to not put it up for distribution. The developer and publisher dissolved within less than a decade of its creation, so none of them are going to make any profit in the first place. You're not really committing an act of theft (because you're not denying profit or taking property from another), which is why people are fine with it.

It's a violation of the law on an even lesser level than making an illegal U-turn while driving, or forgetting to put your blinker on while turning, or jaywalking, or dropping a gum wrapper on the sidewalk. Downloading System Shock exposes you to no personal risk and doesn't contribute to any larger problem. It's literally the only way most people are able to experience the game, and I think the creators would rather someone download and play the game than have their work reach a smaller audience.

[Witchyjoshy]

Eh, I know a few people here who would disagree with you still on the level of harm.  One of them is an artist.

Also, some people refuse to drop gum wrappers on the sidewalk because they know that eventually, that trash is going to end up somewhere and it's going to have to be cleaned.  Jaywalking can result in dead pedestrians, forgetting to put your blinker on can result in an accident when someone believes that you're not going to turn, and U-turns can also result in car accidents -- or at the very least both of the previous ones result in pissing off lots of other drivers who have now missed their one chance to turn and have to sit there for several more minutes waiting for the next opportunity.

[chitoryu12]

Eh, I know a few people here who would disagree with you still on the level of harm.  One of them is an artist.

Also, some people refuse to drop gum wrappers on the sidewalk because they know that eventually, that trash is going to end up somewhere and it's going to have to be cleaned.  Jaywalking can result in dead pedestrians, forgetting to put your blinker on can result in an accident when someone believes that you're not going to turn, and U-turns can also result in car accidents -- or at the very least both of the previous ones result in pissing off lots of other drivers who have now missed their one chance to turn and have to sit there for several more minutes waiting for the next opportunity.

You don't seem to have fully read my post. I mentioned at the very beginning of that paragraph that downloading System Shock is a lesser level than those because it "exposes you to no personal risk and doesn't contribute to any larger problem." The point it was making was that all four of those actions are extremely minor in legal terms and people do them regularly, and downloading System Shock for free is far, far less bad than any of that.

Edit:

Eh, I know a few people here who would disagree with you still on the level of harm.  One of them is an artist.

I'm not entirely sure why they would disagree in this situation. It's not like downloading Skyrim; as I've said over and over, all of the copies that have been made have been sold. Very few people can even play the game because of how old it is. The publisher and developer have both dissolved, so the creator no longer has control of their product anyway, and the current copyright holder continues to not sell the game in any form. As long as this situation exists, the free downloading on systemshock.org is the only way the majority of the world will get to see their work and become a fan. I'd think any artist would rather their work be experienced and enjoyed than to have it sit and do absolutely nothing and be seen by less than 200,000 people.

[Art Vandelay]

So are you afraid of prosecution?

No, as I just said, I don't mind piracy in this particular case, just as long as anyone who downloaded it does pay for it if and when it becomes available to purchase. I'm just pointing out that it is still very much illegal, and claiming otherwise (and especially saying that abandonware is an actual software license) is objectively wrong. That's all, really.

Personally, I'd rather just wait until I can buy it legit. It really shouldn't take that long, considering EA is already partnered with GOG and System Shock 2 has just been released.