The Trial of George Zimmerman

[Sleepy]

Maybe the prosecution is hoping if the defense is an asshole that she looks better .

That is a good point. If you shut down an asshole early, he looks like a minor asshole. If you let him keep going, he exposes him for the Todd Akin he is.

Yeah, this. As much as the jurors try to approach this logically, they're going to sympathize with the Martin family and Trayvon's friend who was treated like complete scum when she testified. That's an advantage for the prosecution.

[MadCatTLX]

Let him dig himself a hole. I want to see how far down the stupid hole goes. That said, after this is over someone needs to give him at least one good punch for being a jackass.

[m52nickerson]

So where's the evidence supporting the eye witness testimony that doesn't lend more support to the medical examiner's testimony?

You are still thinking that medical examiner's testimony refutes in someway what the eyewitness says.  It doesn't.

[ironbite]

You are still thinking that the eye witness testimony refutes in some way what the medical examiner said.  It doesn't.

Ironbite-HOW DOES IT NOT REFUTE IT!?

[m52nickerson]

You are still thinking that the eye witness testimony refutes in some way what the medical examiner said.  It doesn't.

Ironbite-HOW DOES IT NOT REFUTE IT!?

I don't think the eye witness testimony refutes the medical examiner at all.  It is quite possible that Martin hit Zimmerman causing Zimmerman to fall back.  Martin than gets on top of Zimmerman and tries to hit him some more, only Zimmerman is now has his hands up defending.

Just because Martin was on top throwing punches does not mean they were connecting.

[Witchyjoshy]

So where's the evidence supporting the eyewitness's testimony?

If Zimmerman had his arms up there would've been bruising on them from blocking the punches, but nothing of that sort.

[mellenORL]

John Good is the witness whose testimony is being discussed here. He said it was so dark, he could not tell the ethnicity of either person, just that they both looked and sounded male. He yelled at them to "cut it out" or some such, and Good says the man on top yelled, "Call the police!" to him.

Afterward, he was informed by police that Martin was 6 feet tall, Zimmerman 5 feet 8 inches. Four inch difference, which is a lot if both are standing near each other...but nope, Good saw the straddling man throwing punches at the supine man. How the heck can you be sure which man is the taller?

Also, since Good established it was so dark that he could not tell skin color differences, how could he be sure about jacket/hoodie color? Clothing color is the number one thing that eye witnesses get wrong nearly 90% of the time in good lighting. People focus on the startling actions, not the clothes; stress fucks up recall ability. Police academies drill on initial clothing ID recollection more than any other factor in trying to train cadets to become reliable eye witnesses.

[kefkaownsall]

The prosecution will focus on that also wasn't zimmerman taller.  certainly weighs more and often that is the more deciding factor

[mellenORL]

The prosecution will focus on that also wasn't zimmerman taller.  certainly weighs more and often that is the more deciding factor

Trayvon Martin was a tall, gangly 17 yr old. Both his parents are above average height, too. Martin weighed only 150 pounds, Zimmerman at that time weighed 195. Yeah. And Zimmerman was taking MMA classes three times a week. Martin was a former junior high football player.

I honestly think the only reason Martin landed one good punch was the darkness, and because Zimmerman was already focused on going for his gun. Then, it was mostly all grabbing and chaos as they both struggled to get control of the weapon. That's why no defensive injuries noted on either man's arms, and just two minor knuckle scratches (from punching) only on one of Martin's hands.

[chitoryu12]

All of the currently provided evidence actually paints a pretty clear picture of what happened in the fight: Martin punches Zimmerman in the nose, causing him to fall and hit his head on the curb. Martin gets on top of him to try and gain control of the guy who was just stalking him, shouting at a nearby witness to call the police. Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots Martin.

It's extremely simple. The eyewitness is almost definitely incorrect in almost every detail except "Someone was on top of another someone during a fight, then a guy got shot. Maybe the guy on top." The medical examiner testimony does NOT prove the eyewitness right. In fact, it proves that Martin couldn't have been whaling punches on the guy.

Even if he was, it doesn't change the fact that you don't murder someone for punching you.

[mellenORL]

Yup, and as far as who was yelling and screaming? It has to be both of them. Neither man knew the other, both men were initially suspicious of the other, and both men were desperate and terrified of the other as they struggled for that gun.

Like I said way back in the beginning of either this thread or the other Zimmerman thread...why the fuck can't people just nod at each other, just talk, just say hi, just acknowledge each other first before jumping to scary/angry conclusions? Making neutral to friendly eye contact with a stranger - even an actual criminal - can neutralize potential danger, and nearly all of the time, result in zero violence.

[PosthumanHeresy]

Yup, and as far as who was yelling and screaming? It has to be both of them. Neither man knew the other, both men were initially suspicious of the other, and both men were desperate and terrified of the other as they struggled for that gun.

Like I said way back in the beginning of either this thread or the other Zimmerman thread...why the fuck can't people just nod at each other, just talk, just say hi, just acknowledge each other first before jumping to scary/angry conclusions? Making neutral to friendly eye contact with a stranger - even an actual criminal - can neutralize potential danger, and nearly all of the time, result in zero violence.

Because Zimmerman is a common thug, a criminal. Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot.

[mellenORL]

Because Zimmerman is a common thug, a criminal. Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot.

Yeah, someone who feels the need to conceal carry a pistol to go grocery shopping has issues. Sanford at large has a a fairly big crime problem, yes, but in Zimmerman's neighborhood and that Walmart he was headed to, it's not risky, any more than my own neighborhood, or the nearby Walmart. If Zimmerman was my neighbor, I bet he would conceal carry, and wear a Kevlar vest....because lots of black people and Hispanic people live nearby, and lots of black people and ethnic Mexican * people shop at my Walmart....oooooo! Scary! 

BTW, most of my immediate neighbors are elderly, white, and frail. They aren't afraid to shop there.  None carry a gun. Maybe pepper spray or a stun gun, if that.

*http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

[Osama bin Bambi]

Because Zimmerman is a common thug, a criminal. Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot.

Yeah, someone who feels the need to conceal carry a pistol to go grocery shopping has issues. Sanford at large has a a fairly big crime problem, yes, but in Zimmerman's neighborhood and that Walmart he was headed to, it's not risky, any more than my own neighborhood, or the nearby Walmart. If Zimmerman was my neighbor, I bet he would conceal carry, and wear a Kevlar vest....because lots of black people and Hispanic people live nearby, and lots of black people and ethnic Mexican * people shop at my Walmart....oooooo! Scary! 

BTW, most of my immediate neighbors are elderly, white, and frail. They aren't afraid to shop there.  None carry a gun. Maybe pepper spray or a stun gun, if that.

*http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

"But Zimmerman can't be racist because he's Hispanic!"

[PosthumanHeresy]

Because Zimmerman is a common thug, a criminal. Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot.

Yeah, someone who feels the need to conceal carry a pistol to go grocery shopping has issues. Sanford at large has a a fairly big crime problem, yes, but in Zimmerman's neighborhood and that Walmart he was headed to, it's not risky, any more than my own neighborhood, or the nearby Walmart. If Zimmerman was my neighbor, I bet he would conceal carry, and wear a Kevlar vest....because lots of black people and Hispanic people live nearby, and lots of black people and ethnic Mexican * people shop at my Walmart....oooooo! Scary! 

BTW, most of my immediate neighbors are elderly, white, and frail. They aren't afraid to shop there.  None carry a gun. Maybe pepper spray or a stun gun, if that.

*http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

Yeah, you don't need a handgun for daily life in Central Florida. Hell, when I lived in Lake County, I was five minutes away from a chapter of the Kingsmen biker gang, and I never felt worried.

"But Zimmerman can't be racist because he's Hispanic!"

What's funny is, that really should shut down most of his defenders. I was pretty sure the racists hated Hispanics as much as they did every other minority, and am amazed they aren't seeing it as two thugs, instead of just switching the innocent to a thug and the thug to an innocent like they are currently doing.