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Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on March 29, 2013, 06:34:35 pm

Title: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on March 29, 2013, 06:34:35 pm
(http://thegamefanatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ffffuuuu.jpg)

Steven Landsburg, an economics professor at the University of Rochester, has a little though experiment for us all. I'll include the link, but it goes a little something like this:

One person has an aversion to pornography, and absolutely hates knowing that other people view it. He inists that he has been inflicted with a "psychic harm." A second person, this time an environmentalist, is outraged by the desecration of the environment and, likewise, suffers a "psychic harm" from this. The third person is passed out and then raped by a handful of individuals a la the Steubenville victim. She has no memory of the incident, suffers no physical trauma, does not become pregnant and does not suffer from a sexually-transmitted disease afterward. Since there is no tangible harm, the harm to this woman is comparable to the harm done to the first and second individuals. Therefore one should doubt the reasons for criminalizing such rapes when the rapists take care to cover up their crime. Or, as Professor Landsburg puts it: "As long as I’m safely unconsious and therefore shielded from the costs of an assault, why shouldn’t the rest of the world (or more specifically my attackers) be allowed to reap the benefits?" He goes on to compare being raped while unconscious to "trillions of photons" penetrating his body whenever someone on his street turns the porch light on.

The article, called "Censorship, Environmentalism and Steubenville" can be found here (http://www.thebigquestions.com/2013/03/20/censorship-environmentalism-and-steubenville/).
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Distind on March 29, 2013, 06:50:40 pm
So, going with his conclusions here, If I were to walk up and hit him hard enough to leave him with no memory of the event and in a coma long enough for the damage to heal, then he's suffered no perceptable injury? Notably, I live close enough to take this up with him personally.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on March 29, 2013, 06:59:01 pm
So, going with his conclusions here, If I were to walk up and hit him hard enough to leave him with no memory of the event and in a coma long enough for the damage to heal, then he's suffered no perceptable injury? Notably, I live close enough to take this up with him personally.
You wouldn't even have to go that far. Just ask him if the handkerchief you're carrying smells like chloroform. Then, whatever happens happens.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Distind on March 29, 2013, 07:09:45 pm
So, going with his conclusions here, If I were to walk up and hit him hard enough to leave him with no memory of the event and in a coma long enough for the damage to heal, then he's suffered no perceptable injury? Notably, I live close enough to take this up with him personally.
You wouldn't even have to go that far. Just ask him if the handkerchief you're carrying smells like chloroform. Then, whatever happens happens.
I go with the phsyical hit just to point out that perception of something doesn't shape the whole reality of a situtation. There are concerns well beyond immediate perception that go along with such an activity. But this guy's arguing about fucking property rights, so he's probably not worth the time.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: kefkaownsall on March 29, 2013, 07:21:14 pm
I hope my friend doesnt have him or my sister had him
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Damen on March 29, 2013, 07:27:23 pm
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/545/OpoQQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Art Vandelay on March 29, 2013, 07:32:47 pm
That's an interesting theory he's got there. I trust he's got enough faith in his own statements that he'd be willing to test it out on himself, right?
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Damen on March 29, 2013, 07:36:16 pm
You know, I was gonna type a well thought out reply examining why raping the unconscious is a bad thing but it's just easier to call him a douche and be done with it because any well thought out reply would only be using a lot of words to hide the fact that I am just calling him a douche.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Lt. Fred on March 29, 2013, 08:20:17 pm
It is incredible, the knots moronic Randroids can tie themselves into. The only reason they're not considered two-bit conspiracy theorists in the vein of Scientology et al is that their views are profitable.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Canadian Mojo on March 29, 2013, 08:50:04 pm
I wonder how he'd feel if I pissed on his mother's grave, posted pictures on the net, and told all his friends and colleagues about it.
It's not like I did anything more than water the grass right?

Or maybe a copious amount of semen on the hood and door handles of his car would get the point across better. Hell, I'd even leave a  twenty under the wiper to pay for the car wash so he had nothing to complain about.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: R. U. Sirius on March 29, 2013, 11:47:50 pm
I wonder how he'd feel if I pissed on his mother's grave, posted pictures on the net, and told all his friends and colleagues about it.
It's not like I did anything more than water the grass right?

Or maybe a copious amount of semen on the hood and door handles of his car would get the point across better. Hell, I'd even leave a  twenty under the wiper to pay for the car wash so he had nothing to complain about.

Better yet, masturbate all over his mother's tombstone, take pictures and post them online.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 29, 2013, 11:52:05 pm
Being unconscious never voids one's right to their own body. Seriously, this guy is a fucking rape apologist and the U of Rochester should be ashamed of having him there. If you seriously think being ticked at porn and ecological disasters is on the same level as having your body physically violated and abused without your consent and then being shamed for it, you need to sit on a cactus and rotate (to borrow Morgenleoht's term).
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Lt. Fred on March 30, 2013, 12:16:14 am
If we shot him in the head, I doubt he'd remember that.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Witchyjoshy on March 30, 2013, 04:31:01 am
If we shot him in the head, I doubt he'd remember that.

I don't think he'd remember much of anything.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Dakota Bob on March 30, 2013, 07:23:59 am
If we shot him in the head, I doubt he'd remember that.

I don't think he'd remember much of anything.

Because he would be dead.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Art Vandelay on March 30, 2013, 07:41:13 am
If we shot him in the head, I doubt he'd remember that.

I don't think he'd remember much of anything.

Because he would be dead.

And dead people don't remember things.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Flying Mint Bunny! on March 30, 2013, 12:38:06 pm
+
Quote
"As long as I’m safely unconsious and therefore shielded from the costs of an assault, why shouldn’t the rest of the world (or more specifically my attackers) be allowed to reap the benefits?"

Even if you are not harmed by your assault, everyone else is being harmed by having to live in a society full of mistrust and paranoia, where you can't even go to a restaurant or cafe without worrying about the staff being a bunch of food drugging perverts.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: rageaholic on March 30, 2013, 01:29:34 pm
You know, even for an econ professor, this is pretty low.  I had an econ professor who was a typical cynical, misanthropal, republican who thought cutting welfare was a good way to motivate people to get a job.  He not only had sick views, but he was boring, so incredibly boring that every second of being in his class felt like punishment.

As for this... person, even if she doesn't remember the rape, they still filmed it, posted it online, and used it to humiliate her.  So his analogy is bullshit.  Every time I see people post their "unpopular" views on this subject, I want to break something.   
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 30, 2013, 08:10:24 pm
What I want to do to this guy:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8p1seSf3l1qzqnxxo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Silhouette on March 30, 2013, 08:40:57 pm
People who think like this don't seem to consider it happening to them. what would they think then?
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Zygarde on March 30, 2013, 08:42:08 pm
What I want to do to this guy:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8p1seSf3l1qzqnxxo1_500.gif)

Um a little off topic but was that gif from Akira?
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 31, 2013, 12:05:22 am
What I want to do to this guy:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8p1seSf3l1qzqnxxo1_500.gif)

Um a little off topic but was that gif from Akira?

I don't know, I just saw it on tumblr and thought it was appropriate to express my sentiments in this thread.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Auggziliary on March 31, 2013, 10:29:46 am
What I want to do to this guy:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8p1seSf3l1qzqnxxo1_500.gif)

Um a little off topic but was that gif from Akira?

Idk where it's from but it's certainly not Akira.


Anyways, wtf is with this guy. Seriously. Jesus. fuuuuck.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on March 31, 2013, 07:12:48 pm
Oh, and apparently this isn't the first time he's proven himself to be a complete shithead. He also jumped on the Sandra Fluke hate-train (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/steve-landsburg-rochester-university-professor-rush-limbaugh_n_1353319.html), thinks people should stop voting (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2004/09/dont_vote.html), and believes the poor should be unplugged from life support (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/01/do_the_poor_deserve_life_support.html).
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on April 01, 2013, 12:21:09 am
Oh, and apparently this isn't the first time he's proven himself to be a complete shithead. He also jumped on the Sandra Fluke hate-train (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/steve-landsburg-rochester-university-professor-rush-limbaugh_n_1353319.html), thinks people should stop voting (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2004/09/dont_vote.html), and believes the poor should be unplugged from life support (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/01/do_the_poor_deserve_life_support.html).
Honestly, I don't care about the non-voting part; I don't vote either. The rest of it is trash.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Flying Mint Bunny! on April 01, 2013, 04:07:49 pm
Oh, and apparently this isn't the first time he's proven himself to be a complete shithead. He also jumped on the Sandra Fluke hate-train (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/steve-landsburg-rochester-university-professor-rush-limbaugh_n_1353319.html), thinks people should stop voting (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2004/09/dont_vote.html), and believes the poor should be unplugged from life support (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/01/do_the_poor_deserve_life_support.html).

Pretty much all of his articles show him to be a total prick.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Scotsgit on April 02, 2013, 10:10:44 am
So, going with his conclusions here, If I were to walk up and hit him hard enough to leave him with no memory of the event and in a coma long enough for the damage to heal, then he's suffered no perceptable injury? Notably, I live close enough to take this up with him personally.
You wouldn't even have to go that far. Just ask him if the handkerchief you're carrying smells like chloroform. Then, whatever happens happens.
I go with the phsyical hit just to point out that perception of something doesn't shape the whole reality of a situtation. There are concerns well beyond immediate perception that go along with such an activity. But this guy's arguing about fucking property rights, so he's probably not worth the time.

Get Mike Tyson to do the punching.  That way you can record it, put it online and start your own meme.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: ThunderWulf on April 03, 2013, 09:58:39 pm
I... what?  I can't even begin to understand the mental gymnastics this guy must have used for such an out there conclusion.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: TheUnknown on April 03, 2013, 10:32:47 pm
I... what?  I can't even begin to understand the mental gymnastics this guy must have used for such an out there conclusion.

Sometimes I wonder if people who make these arguments or get really defensive about this subject have either thought about, or have actually done something like this, and are trying desperately hard to convince themselves (and others) that this behavior is understandable and that they're not actually horrible people, rapists, or rape apologists.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Auggziliary on April 03, 2013, 10:35:22 pm
I... what?  I can't even begin to understand the mental gymnastics this guy must have used for such an out there conclusion.

Sometimes I wonder if people who make these arguments or get really defensive about this subject have either thought about, or have actually done something like this, and are trying desperately hard to convince themselves (and others) that this behavior is understandable and that they're not actually horrible people, rapists, or rape apologists.

I wonder the same... but this guy is more of an objectivist so he's just being logical(batshit crazy) even if it's completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: niam2023 on April 03, 2013, 11:55:54 pm
I despise Objectivists.

They truly do despise people weaker than themselves, despite the fact that at any moment, someone else could make them the weak one.

And oh yes, if you don't remember it...if we got him unconscious with Roofies, there's a lot I could do to this guy he would not remember. Just help me take him to an apartment with a nice, deep basement.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Lt. Fred on April 04, 2013, 01:58:43 am
Don't call them objectivists. Their beliefs are subjective.
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Flying Mint Bunny! on April 04, 2013, 09:47:44 am
I would like to know if this guy thinks people should be allowed to sexually abuse babies.

The baby isn't going to remember it, so according to his logic why shouldn't we let people enjoy them as long as they are careful not to cause physical harm?
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: Auggziliary on April 04, 2013, 05:29:38 pm
I would like to know if this guy thinks people should be allowed to sexually abuse babies.

The baby isn't going to remember it, so according to his logic why shouldn't we let people enjoy them as long as they are careful not to cause physical harm?

Or even non sexually. Why shouldn't we let our citizens reap the benefits of tazing a baby? Who hasn't wanted to rape women and taze babies? Anyone? ...Where are you guys going?
Title: Re: Date Rape Thought Experiment
Post by: TheL on April 05, 2013, 02:42:09 pm
So, going with his conclusions here, If I were to walk up and hit him hard enough to leave him with no memory of the event and in a coma long enough for the damage to heal, then he's suffered no perceptable injury? Notably, I live close enough to take this up with him personally.

I sent him a message that mentions the shit in the chocolate pie from The Help.  I pointed out that according to his own article, because Miss Hilly was unaware of the nasty contents of the pie when she ate it, and the baking would have killed off any fecal bacteria, it was totally morally neutral and not mean or gross to serve another human being (however despicable) a doo-doo pie.