FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: Her3tiK on January 24, 2012, 01:44:04 pm
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I'm not making this up. Bishop Bernardo Alvarez is claiming that priests molest children because the children trick them into it (http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/01/24/catholic-bishop-the-kids-trick-us-into-molesting-them/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+freethoughtblogs%2Fdispatches+%28FTB%3A+Dispatches+from+the+Culture+Wars%29).
His comments were that there are youngsters who want to be abused, and he compared that abuse to homosexuality, describing them both as prejudicial to society. He said that on occasions the abuse happened because the there are children who consent to it.
‘There are 13 year old adolescents who are under age and who are perfectly in agreement with, and what’s more wanting it, and if you are careless they will even provoke you’, he said.
Read more: http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_14332.shtml#ixzz1kP1bULaf
How fucked up do you need to be to even attempt to make this argument?
I hope he gets hit by a truck. Or an abused kid's parents beat him with a 2x4.
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(http://themixtapemonster.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/popcorn_soda.jpg)
This should be good. :D
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...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXE6GZPPCOk
[Audio-Only Link] (http://pl.st/s/507563281)
I can't say anything else. I may start screaming.
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Can the "Don't threaten to harm another person or tell someone to do something illegal" rules be revoked for this one thread? Pretty please?
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...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXE6GZPPCOk
[Audio-Only Link] (http://pl.st/s/507563281)
I can't say anything else. I may start screaming.
I raise you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZcS6Aj61a0
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Oh, fuck. Please, please, please, Please! tell me this guy will be facing consequences for this!
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Never before have I required this gif more:
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltuzvhdWQy1qhigt0o1_250.gif)
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I don't care if the child gift wrapped themselves naked and wrote "Happy Birthday on their butt cheeks.
YOU DON'T GET TO TOUCH THEM. AT ALL. CONSENT BE DAMNED. AND YOU TOO.
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So limp-brained it barely deserves comment.
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I... I can't say anything about this or I'll wind up getting a ban... this pisses me off sooooo much that the words I want to say would definitely break the rules of the forum.
*Steps into the Angry Dimension* I'll be in here for the rest of the day...
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(http://www.iconoguy.com/images/game_hunk_fury.gif)
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I can't even properly raeg at this because it's too fucking surreal.
How detached from reality do you have to be to think that this victim-blaming bullshit is a good "excuse" that anyone would actually believe? This is worse than Francesco "Oops I accidentally tripped into the lifeboat and paddled onto shore!" Schettino.
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I always knew slutty kids were the problem! Those little boys with their shorts curving over their butts...
okay I felt sick typing that.
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It would serve him right to be punched square in the mouth for these remarks. And it would be his fault. After all, he did provoke it with this nut-shittery.
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Reading the source of the quote, the shitstain also thinks that child abusers do it for the novelty of practising a different kind of sexuality, and that only 6% of homosexuals are so due to biological reasons (the rest, presumably, also do it out of a desire for novelty).
Funniest part is, in an earlier bit he tap-dances all over himself to avoid saying something "politically incorrect" about them queers, and then comes out and says that child abuse can be consensual. Damn slutty 13 year olds, tempting good men with their sexy, pre-pubescent bodies.
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Really though, this shit could've all been avoided if the clergy weren't forced into celibacy all the bloody time, IMO.
If you're made to repress your sexuality for that long (whatever it may be), bad things happen, to put it mildly. This stuff is just one manifestation of that.
He's still an absolute fuckhead, however.
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Really? I'm not that angry just because this is so retarded.
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Funny, that's exactly what the more malicious pedophiles say.
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Dear Pope Benedict,
You now have an opportunity to restore the honor of the Catholic Church:
1. Recall this man to Rome.
2. Burn him at the stake in St. Peter's Square.
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How desperate to justify your behavior do you have to be to come up with shit like this?
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Really though, this shit could've all been avoided if the clergy weren't forced into celibacy all the bloody time, IMO.
If you're made to repress your sexuality for that long (whatever it may be), bad things happen, to put it mildly. This stuff is just one manifestation of that.
He's still an absolute fuckhead, however.
I used to think this same thing myself, but over the years I've changed my opinion.
Yes, doubtless being forced to live your life in denial of your sexual needs could lead to any number of psychological problems. BUT!! People do not just 'become' pedophiles or rapists because they're not allowed to get laid--not if there isn't some preexisting mental problem at work, which could manifest or not manifest regardless of the person's living circumstances. Pedophiles and rapists and child-molesters exist everywhere and there isn't anything special about a celibate priesthood that attracts them.
I believe there are two problems at work here.
First of all, nobody really actually LIKES the idea of living celibate--a mandate the early Church put in place because it didn't want to have to pay to support the wives and children of its clergymen, and not because it thought there was anything special about not fucking. Not many people see 'NO SEX EVER!!' as a perk of joining the ranks of the Catholic clergy. Naturally, this makes the pool of applicants shrink pretty dramatically; in turn, the Church has little choice (other than, I dunno, maybe joining the 21st century and changing their rules) but to accept applicants who have a history of abusing others or show a predisposition to committing sexual assault. The Church isn't UNAWARE of their priests negative traits--they're just willing to overlook it rather than changing their rules.
The second problem is self-perpetuating. The sex scandals have only come to light in the last twenty or so years but they've been going on for at least the last century at the very least. Word gets around and at some point it became clear that the Vatican was willing to shield sexual predators without punishing them--making the priesthood an appealing choice to the kind of sick fucks who sexually prey on children or any subordinate. (The congregation is 'spiritually' subordinate to the priest, remember.) The more the priests committed these acts, the more the Church worked to shield them; and the more the Church worked to shield them, the more obvious it became that they were willing to do whatever it took; and the more they showed that willingness, the more appealing the Church became to people who wanted to sexually assault people.
The priesthood isn't by itself 'making' people into pedophiles by forcing them into celibacy--rather, the forced celibacy makes the priesthood an unattractive option to enough people that the Vatican has to ordain anybody who applies and turn a blind eye to the dangers.
I'm not saying teh church is innocent in all this--they're as red-handed as possible. They just brought it upon themselves with their enormous efforts to cover up crimes AND their refusal to change their rules to better suit modern needs.
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I used to think this same thing myself, but over the years I've changed my opinion.
Yes, doubtless being forced to live your life in denial of your sexual needs could lead to any number of psychological problems. BUT!! People do not just 'become' pedophiles or rapists because they're not allowed to get laid--not if there isn't some preexisting mental problem at work, which could manifest or not manifest regardless of the person's living circumstances. Pedophiles and rapists and child-molesters exist everywhere and there isn't anything special about a celibate priesthood that attracts them.
I believe there are two problems at work here.
First of all, nobody really actually LIKES the idea of living celibate--a mandate the early Church put in place because it didn't want to have to pay to support the wives and children of its clergymen, and not because it thought there was anything special about not fucking. Not many people see 'NO SEX EVER!!' as a perk of joining the ranks of the Catholic clergy. Naturally, this makes the pool of applicants shrink pretty dramatically; in turn, the Church has little choice (other than, I dunno, maybe joining the 21st century and changing their rules) but to accept applicants who have a history of abusing others or show a predisposition to committing sexual assault. The Church isn't UNAWARE of their priests negative traits--they're just willing to overlook it rather than changing their rules.
The second problem is self-perpetuating. The sex scandals have only come to light in the last twenty or so years but they've been going on for at least the last century at the very least. Word gets around and at some point it became clear that the Vatican was willing to shield sexual predators without punishing them--making the priesthood an appealing choice to the kind of sick fucks who sexually prey on children or any subordinate. (The congregation is 'spiritually' subordinate to the priest, remember.) The more the priests committed these acts, the more the Church worked to shield them; and the more the Church worked to shield them, the more obvious it became that they were willing to do whatever it took; and the more they showed that willingness, the more appealing the Church became to people who wanted to sexually assault people.
The priesthood isn't by itself 'making' people into pedophiles by forcing them into celibacy--rather, the forced celibacy makes the priesthood an unattractive option to enough people that the Vatican has to ordain anybody who applies and turn a blind eye to the dangers.
I'm not saying teh church is innocent in all this--they're as red-handed as possible. They just brought it upon themselves with their enormous efforts to cover up crimes AND their refusal to change their rules to better suit modern needs.
Touché.
...I don't really have much else to say, haha. ;D
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--rmMoiWz4vc/Toe6DARHGXI/AAAAAAAAAG8/H2IRD14ddF0/s1600/DoctorWho_What.jpg)
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This would probably be a bad time to admit that upon seeing the Doctor my immediate first thought was enraged retaliation in Vatican City by a bunch of people yelling, "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!" and wielding machine guns.
I don't even watch Doctor Who.
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I...love you.
Ironbite-have my abortion.
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Awesome! Nerd sex AND cross-species impregnation AND male pregnancy AND abortion AND sexuality other than the totally vanilla heteronormative kind.
We could piss off all the fundies in the world at once!
Unrelated: 'Inter-Species Iron Abortion' would be a good name for a rock band.
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Awesome! Nerd sex AND cross-species impregnation AND male pregnancy AND abortion AND sexuality other than the totally vanilla heteronormative kind.
We could piss off all the fundies in the world at once!
Unrelated: 'Inter-Species Iron Abortion' would be a good name for a rock band.
Can I use it? Pleeeeeaaaaaasssseeeeeeee?
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Awesome! Nerd sex AND cross-species impregnation AND male pregnancy AND abortion AND sexuality other than the totally vanilla heteronormative kind.
We could piss off all the fundies in the world at once!
Unrelated: 'Inter-Species Iron Abortion' would be a good name for a rock band.
I love both of you so much right now.
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Awesome! Nerd sex AND cross-species impregnation AND male pregnancy AND abortion AND sexuality other than the totally vanilla heteronormative kind.
We could piss off all the fundies in the world at once!
Unrelated: 'Inter-Species Iron Abortion' would be a good name for a rock band.
Can I use it? Pleeeeeaaaaaasssseeeeeeee?
Uhm, sure? Go ahead? I didn't make up the whole 'would-be-a-good-name-for-a-rock-band' thing, that was something Dave Barry made up when he was writing his column.
But hey, Inter-Species Iron Abortion could totally open for the Rolling Stones, right?
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I'd be ashamed if it didn't.
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Yes, doubtless being forced to live your life in denial of your sexual needs could lead to any number of psychological problems. BUT!! People do not just 'become' pedophiles or rapists because they're not allowed to get laid--not if there isn't some preexisting mental problem at work, which could manifest or not manifest regardless of the person's living circumstances.
I was under the impression that most members of the clergy just screwed each other anyway, vows be damned, and pretended to celibacy in their public life.
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I'm not well-acquainted enough with any of the other social aspects of the Catholic church--I can argue their dogma and their compulsive protecting of child molesters all day, but I don't really read much else about what goes on on the hush-hush in the church. So I can't really say whether or not there's a lot of surreptitious clergy-boinking going on.
I will say that it wouldn't surprise me. I'm sure a lot of the priests and monks and nuns and whoever else in the church are perfectly capable of the requisite self-control to live a completely celibate life--or have at least been brainwashed sufficiently into thinking sex is too evil to attempt--but not everybody can do that. Religious people are no different. I've heard second- and third-hand stories of women having affairs with priests and such, but I can't substantiate those so I won;t put them forward as evidence. If this kind of thing DOES happen routinely, I still expect it's something the male clergy members do but not the nuns--simply because there's less risk. A priest isn't going to get pregnant himself, and if they impregnate someone else the shame of unwed pregnancy AND fucking a priest is probably powerful enough to keep the impregnated girls and women largely quiet on the resulting baby's paternity. Nuns, however, CAN get pregnant and they wouldn't be able to shift the blame or hide this fact, so I wouldn't think they would be willing to take a risk like that, especially considering how vehemently they argue against any kind of birth control.
But like I said, i don;t know for sure so I'm not the person to ask.
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So what you're arguing Cait is that most nuns turn to lesbianism to fulfill their sexual needs.
Ironbite-and now I must brain bleach cause the only nuns that come to mind are the ones from Sister Act.
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I safely diverted my mind to the Sisters of Battle.
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Fuck the Catholic Bishops. Instead of dealing with the problems, all they do is victim-blaming.
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No, sadly, most don't do anything as harmless as breaking their vows with consensual sex. Instead, most sublimate their desires into a froth of fanaticism and martyrship, making them feel both more righteous for overcoming their feelings and absolutely wretched for having those feelings in the first place. This is not conducive toward good mental health.
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...Seriously? What is this I don't even.
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I don't usually see this unless a defense attorney or rapist is REALLY grasping at straws. To see this from a bishop only tells me the RCC has gotten desperate.
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Wow. They're just not even trying to hide it any more.
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inb4 some disgusting example of Rule 34
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This guy better be fired soon/immediately.
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This guy better be fired soon/immediately.
If by "fired" you mean "burned at the stake in St. Peter's Square" then I agree.
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This guy better be fired soon/immediately.
not a chance unfortunately, they'll just keep doing the same old bullshit they always do, protecting people like this.
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I will say that it wouldn't surprise me. I'm sure a lot of the priests and monks and nuns and whoever else in the church are perfectly capable of the requisite self-control to live a completely celibate life--or have at least been brainwashed sufficiently into thinking sex is too evil to attempt--but not everybody can do that.
The thing is, which I learned the hard way, is that self control only gets you so far. The celibate nature of the church would be a beacon of hope towards someone who has feelings of pedophilia. In our society certain feelings are stigmatized to such a degree that people afflicted by them overcompensate to deal with them rather than face the truth. Examples include people who are violently apposed to homosexuality, but inevitably get caught with a male escort. Similarly most transsexuals attempt to live ultra masculine lives to compensate for their feelings, but that inevitably falls apart too.
For a pedophile, such compensations are not easy to come by, but the lure of religion praying the feeling away along with the celibate lifestyle to keep them from harming someone would be a ray of hope for a good intentioned pedophile. The church would help him to fight his sinful urges and that is attractive to many people faced with such things. Unfortunately we are all human and repressing and suppressing oneself cannot last forever through self control alone.
Regarding the original topic though, its so absurd that its scary. I feel that pedophiles need help more than they need prison time, but I get the feeling that a lot of child molestation that happens in the churches does not come from actual pedophiles.
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This guy better be fired soon/immediately.
If by "fired" you mean "burned at the stake in St. Peter's Square" then I agree.
Fired would be a good step, or at the very least strip of title and made to recant.
Burning at the stake maybe a slight be overboard. You know that whole WWJD thing.
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...Seriously? What is this I don't even.
What she said. ???
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At least when Arwin Miewes claimed his victim consented to being killed and eaten, that turned out to be true.
The Catholic Church: now less virtuous than cannibals.
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WHAT...?
(http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/454079604.jpg)
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(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt3z6xftQG1qaus1yo1_500.jpg)
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I'm 12 and what is this...
...oh wait it's a preist wanting to have sex with me because I'm 12. Nevermind.
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I'm 12 and what is this...
...oh wait it's a preist wanting to have sex with me because I'm 12. Nevermind.
Simultaneously hilarious... and tragic.
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I safely diverted my mind to the Sisters of Battle.
But the SoB don't actually take vows of celibacy.
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I safely diverted my mind to the Sisters of Battle.
But the SoB don't actually take vows of celibacy.
Chastity (there is a difference), and yeah, ain't that great? ;)
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I safely diverted my mind to the Sisters of Battle.
But the SoB don't actually take vows of celibacy.
Chastity (there is a difference), and yeah, ain't that great? ;)
I know. On one forum, I roleplay an openly lesbian Sister of Battle.
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HAY GUYZ WATS GOIN ON IN THIS THREA...
(http://partner-ad.photobucket.com/albums/f178/l00nitick/Reaction_ItalianSpiderman.gif)
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This guy better be fired soon/immediately.
If by "fired" you mean "burned at the stake in St. Peter's Square" then I agree.
Fired would be a good step, or at the very least strip of title and made to recant.
Burning at the stake maybe a slight be overboard. You know that whole WWJD thing.
What Would Jupiter Do? Eat him, obviously. It's how he disciplined his kids, after all.
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This guy better be fired soon/immediately.
If by "fired" you mean "burned at the stake in St. Peter's Square" then I agree.
Fired would be a good step, or at the very least strip of title and made to recant.
Burning at the stake maybe a slight be overboard. You know that whole WWJD thing.
What Would Jupiter Do? Eat him, obviously. It's how he disciplined his kids, after all.
No, that was Saturn/Chronos. Jupiter's strategy was generally "Find a hot girl, disguise self as animal, fuck."
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No, that was Saturn/Chronos. Jupiter's strategy was generally "Find a hot girl, disguise self as animal, fuck."
(http://zs1.smbc-comics.com/comics/20080502.gif) (http://www.smbc-comics.com/?db=comics&id=1165)
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That comic is made of win.
That said, my favorites were when Zeus did things like “Golden Mist.â€Â
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That said, my favorites were when Zeus did things like “Golden Mist.â€Â
That's not what I think it is, is it? :o
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I really hope not. But something like that is how he got it on with Danaë (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danaë) and made Perseus. You know, the guy from Clash of the Titans.
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(http://troll.me/images/atomic-rage/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you.jpg)
(http://www.movies4indies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/WHAT-THE-FUCK-IS-THIS-SHIT-.jpg)
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I wonder though..... The Bishop is running to the defense of paedophiles. Is he one himself?
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I wonder though..... The Bishop is running to the defense of paedophiles. Is he one himself?
Let's see, he says children are seducing adults
So, I can't say for sure "yes", I'm pretty sure he is.
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I wonder though..... The Bishop is running to the defense of paedophiles. Is he one himself?
Let's see, he says children are seducing adults
So, I can't say for sure "yes", I'm pretty sure he is.
Worst ever pre-empted defense then?
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I wonder though..... The Bishop is running to the defense of paedophiles. Is he one himself?
Let's see, he says children are seducing adults
So, I can't say for sure "yes", I'm pretty sure he is.
Worst ever pre-empted defense then?
Yeah.
I am reminded of a scene in the movie “Toys†where a character suggests using fake poop in a bathtub as part of a prank because “we’ve all done it.â€Â
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What Would Jupiter Do? Eat him, obviously. It's how he disciplined his kids, after all.
No, that was Saturn/Chronos. Jupiter's strategy was generally "Find a hot girl, disguise self as animal, fuck."
Whoops. Guess that's what I get for being too lazy to check I had the right god when I know I don't know them that well.
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I think Zeus ate the woman who was bearing Athena...
...and then Athena was born, grew up, and cut her way out of her father.
He got better.
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I think Zeus ate the woman who was bearing Athena...
...and then Athena was born, grew up, and cut her way out of her father.
He got better.
Zeus had a headache and one of the other Gods (depends on who's telling it) uses the labrys to cleave his head open and Athena pops out fully formed.
"and pealed to the broad sky her clarion cry of war. And Ouranos trembled to hear, and Mother Gaia..."