Another day, another school shooting

[Sleepy]

The gun and ammunition were both legally purchased by the shooter.

http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-school-rampage-lasted-less-2-minutes-004000907.html

[Canadian Mojo]

Please provide actual evidence that introduction of gun control into a country that lacked it caused a long-term decrease in crime.

Why would anyone bother? Every time Australia is mentioned as an example of gun control successfully reducing violent crime, the gun nuts just stick their fingers in their ears and go "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".

Kind of like how the anti-gun nuts stick their fingers in their ears when asked if it would even be  (physically) possible to implement and enforce such draconian legislation in the U.S. or if there would even be any appreciable benefit given the huge number of guns already floating around the U.S.

Honestly, have you even looked at the Aussie laws? They make the Canadian registration days look like the wild, wild west by comparison. Anything above a bolt action rimfire or break barrel shotgun requires a 'need'  before you can acquire the permits necessary to buy one. That's just for a bolt action center fire rifle, the restrictions get even tougher for things like pumps shotguns and semiauto weapons. 

[QueenofHearts]

Please provide actual evidence that introduction of gun control into a country that lacked it caused a long-term decrease in crime.

Why would anyone bother? Every time Australia is mentioned as an example of gun control successfully reducing violent crime, the gun nuts just stick their fingers in their ears and go "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".

Kind of like how the anti-gun nuts stick their fingers in their ears when asked if it would even be  (physically) possible to implement and enforce such draconian legislation in the U.S. or if there would even be any appreciable benefit given the huge number of guns already floating around the U.S.

Honestly, have you even looked at the Aussie laws? They make the Canadian registration days look like the wild, wild west by comparison. Anything above a bolt action rimfire or break barrel shotgun requires a 'need'  before you can acquire the permits necessary to buy one. That's just for a bolt action center fire rifle, the restrictions get even tougher for things like pumps shotguns and semiauto weapons.

Or like how any time gun control is brought up, gun humpers stick their fingers in their ears and yell "mental health" which is a red herring that seeks only to play on our prejudices and emotions. They shout this red herring to make us afraid of the mentally ill who may have guns (ignoring that the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of guns) and then try to make us sympathetic, like, "oh, those poor individuals..." so that our attention is diverted from the man behind the curtain to a different issue entirely.

Also ignores that most people who play this trope are adamantly against doing ANYTHING to improve the health care in this country, but at least they can keep their guns.

[Askold]

Please provide actual evidence that introduction of gun control into a country that lacked it caused a long-term decrease in crime.

Why would anyone bother? Every time Australia is mentioned as an example of gun control successfully reducing violent crime, the gun nuts just stick their fingers in their ears and go "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".

Kind of like how the anti-gun nuts stick their fingers in their ears when asked if it would even be  (physically) possible to implement and enforce such draconian legislation in the U.S. or if there would even be any appreciable benefit given the huge number of guns already floating around the U.S.

Honestly, have you even looked at the Aussie laws? They make the Canadian registration days look like the wild, wild west by comparison. Anything above a bolt action rimfire or break barrel shotgun requires a 'need'  before you can acquire the permits necessary to buy one. That's just for a bolt action center fire rifle, the restrictions get even tougher for things like pumps shotguns and semiauto weapons. 

Finnish law is kinda like that except that you need a license for ALL firearms. The only things exempt are bows and airguns. (Depending how you read the law airsoft guns, bb-guns and metal pipes would also require a lincese to own. It is not a very well written law.)

[The Illusive Man]

Gotta ask Illusive (when he isn't being a husk, anyway) : Were there any prior actions of his that would indicate a psychological break? Was there cause to believe he'd be this stupid?

I will put this in simple terms for you:
Stupidity is not similar or equal to a psychotic break. In order to equate the two you literally have to ignore the biopsychosocial causes of psychosis. Arguing from ignorance is bad and you should feel bad.

In order to predict when a psychotic break will occur broad, invasive monitoring is needed. Even if everyone in a school is sent regularly to a counselor this cannot overcome participant bias. You have learned nothing from Columbine. High functioning psychopaths and sociopaths are insanely difficult to detect because they actively deceive and blend in with society despite differences in cognition.

Gotta If I were you, I'd be asking how he got the gun, because 99 times out of 100 for crimes like this, it was stolen or otherwise obtained illegally.

[citation needed]

[ironbite]

*pops more popcorn*

[Stormwarden]

Illusive: Bullshit. I've learned plenty from Columbine and every other act of school violence up to and including the 1927 Bath School massacre. Don't go all Nancy Grace/armchair shrink on me. All I ask is evidence. And you've only given me conjecture.

Truth is, I'm all out of patience with seeing the same tired bullshit arguments every time something like this comes up.

I will, however, address Sleepy, since she actually mentioned something relevant. He was 18, and showed no indication of a mental illness prior to when he acquired the weapon. He made no effort to hide his weapons.

He had no right to put his classmates through this. No gunowner has that right. So TIM, spare me the moral outrage, you fucking hypocrite.

[QueenofHearts]

Moments like this make me wonder, "why are guns legal, but pot is illegal?"

[Damen]

To the thread in general, I'm just gonna go ahead and quote myself from last month.

I'm pretty sure I've said this before but I'll say it again: this is one of those topics that everyone's already picked out their sides on the issue and they have no intention of changing their minds so all this "debate" boils down to is a thinly veiled "You're an asshole" statement. Nothing ever changes except for the resentment that comes from it so it's one of those things just best left alone unless you're actively seeking a drama-fest.

[Mantorok]

I'm no longer using that video as evidence, as I looked closer at it and saw the mistakes (willful or otherwise) that were made in producing the video.

Sure, but by using that video you tacitly endorsed Australia as a case study for gun control. You had absolutely no qualms when you thought the facts supported your beliefs. Now that you know they don't, you make excuses for why Australia can't be used. A classic example of fundie behaviour.

It's time to face facts, you're wrong about gun control in Australia. You don't need to admit to me and the forum, you need to admit it to yourself.

Kind of like how the anti-gun nuts stick their fingers in their ears when asked if it would even be  (physically) possible to implement and enforce such draconian legislation in the U.S. or if there would even be any appreciable benefit given the huge number of guns already floating around the U.S.

Oh look, it's the good old "The USA is a special snowflake" argument. Do you employ this same argument when discussing the prospect of the US adopting a single-payer, socialised heath care system?

Here, I can write that post for you:

Kind of like how the socialists stick their fingers in their ears when asked if it would even be  (physically) possible to implement and enforce such draconian legislation in the U.S. or if there would even be any appreciable benefit given the huge number of sick people already floating around the U.S.

See how stupid that looks?

Piss-weak effort, guys. I suggest you both take a break from debating the issue until you can come up with a worthwhile argument.

[dpareja]

To the thread in general, I'm just gonna go ahead and quote myself from last month.

I'm pretty sure I've said this before but I'll say it again: this is one of those topics that everyone's already picked out their sides on the issue and they have no intention of changing their minds so all this "debate" boils down to is a thinly veiled "You're an asshole" statement. Nothing ever changes except for the resentment that comes from it so it's one of those things just best left alone unless you're actively seeking a drama-fest.

There are many things regarding this debate on which I do not agree with you, but in this I agree with you fully.

[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

Lol, look at this deflection complete with ignorance of biopsychosocial causes. The best part is the assumption that there are rational motives. Here let me summarize this for you:

PSYCHOPATHS ARE DETACHED FROM REALITY. Empathic dysfunction cannot be taught, it has biological causes such as amygdale abnormalities. Such biological causes alter a person’s ability to cognate, learn and communicate. Psychosis cannot be cured because medical technology cannot perform drastic brain reconstruction. Thank the Republicans for holding back avenues of research that could accomplish this.

If you're going to be a condescending dick, you might want to be careful not to confuse psychosis with psychopathy.

[Ironchew]

To the thread in general, I'm just gonna go ahead and quote myself from last month.

I'm pretty sure I've said this before but I'll say it again: this is one of those topics that everyone's already picked out their sides on the issue and they have no intention of changing their minds so all this "debate" boils down to is a thinly veiled "You're an asshole" statement. Nothing ever changes except for the resentment that comes from it so it's one of those things just best left alone unless you're actively seeking a drama-fest.

There are many things regarding this debate on which I do not agree with you, but in this I agree with you fully.

I personally enjoy the discussion, and I find it highly condescending when people claim we should shut up about gun control debates. It fits into the taboo narrative.

[mellenORL]

If only some of the debaters would refrain from using thinly veiled, passive aggressive pseudo "hypothetical" terms of personal insult it would be more readable, at least. Once the name calling starts, I groan and leave off reading the thread (like now, when I hit the post button)....

[SpaceProg]

If y'all want to personally attack each other instead of debating each other's ideas or viewpoints, then take it to flame and burn, please.  Y'all know who you are.