Author Topic: Quinnspiracy  (Read 59800 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2014, 04:47:24 pm »
This, combined with the protest to "shut down Steam", makes me think these people don't actually want change, they just want to piss people off. It's a brilliant strategy, really, get enough people pissed off that they start raging at you endlessly, then you can claim that you're the victim, and that it's all just a bunch of bullies attacking you.

Unfortunately, you start condemning things like fun in games and no one, but no one wants to listen to you anymore. Keep your SJW bullshit out of my entertainment, please.
What do you mean "These people".
If you're trying to passive aggressively refer to Saskeriaadnfdsfa and people who follow her then this is stupid.
For one, considering saskgn-fuckit, the video game feminism woman has received rape and death threats that have driven her out of her home, I would say she is in full right to call herself a victim. 

And I highly doubt a stupid article from somewhere and a misguided petition to inconvenience thousands are proof that there's some massive movement to "Ruin games".


If you're referring to the No-fun article then, yeah, it's stupid, although ultimately irrelevant.

Yeah, about those "threats"...



>last tweet is listed 12 seconds ago
 >she isn’t logged on
 >the guy’s account is now deleted, disputing how quickly she seemed to know he was tweeting
 >didn’t call the police or any kind of authorities, despite the ‘fact’ that he knew her and her parents’ addresses, instead choosing to tell twitter about it

0/10 would not believe

Offline I am lizard

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3545
    • https://www.instagram.com/p/9SIHifrULJ/
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2014, 05:09:13 pm »
This, combined with the protest to "shut down Steam", makes me think these people don't actually want change, they just want to piss people off. It's a brilliant strategy, really, get enough people pissed off that they start raging at you endlessly, then you can claim that you're the victim, and that it's all just a bunch of bullies attacking you.

Unfortunately, you start condemning things like fun in games and no one, but no one wants to listen to you anymore. Keep your SJW bullshit out of my entertainment, please.
What do you mean "These people".
If you're trying to passive aggressively refer to Saskeriaadnfdsfa and people who follow her then this is stupid.
For one, considering saskgn-fuckit, the video game feminism woman has received rape and death threats that have driven her out of her home, I would say she is in full right to call herself a victim. 

And I highly doubt a stupid article from somewhere and a misguided petition to inconvenience thousands are proof that there's some massive movement to "Ruin games".


If you're referring to the No-fun article then, yeah, it's stupid, although ultimately irrelevant.

Yeah, about those "threats"...



>last tweet is listed 12 seconds ago
 >she isn’t logged on
 >the guy’s account is now deleted, disputing how quickly she seemed to know he was tweeting
 >didn’t call the police or any kind of authorities, despite the ‘fact’ that he knew her and her parents’ addresses, instead choosing to tell twitter about it

0/10 would not believe
I had know idea.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 05:14:34 pm by I am lizard »

Offline Eiki-mun

  • der Löwe aus Mitternacht
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
  • Gender: Male
  • On the fields of Breitenfeld.
    • Main Personal Blog
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2014, 05:19:35 pm »
Ooookay then. I'll just stay out of this one.
There is no plague more evil and vile to watch spread than the plague that is the Von Habsburg dynasty.

Offline I am lizard

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3545
    • https://www.instagram.com/p/9SIHifrULJ/
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2014, 05:21:50 pm »
Well, she did contact authorities:https://twitter.com/intent/favorite?tweet_id=504517458917470208
Not to mention, she has been sent some fairly aggressive posts.
Anyway, here's a link to the WHTM thing on it:
http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/08/28/each-new-video-that-anita-sarkeesian-posts-is-a-sign-that-the-bullies-are-losing/
 
My basic opinion on the issue is that the rampant sexism in the gaming community and games themselves is more important than the issue of Shining Jaguar Wang.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 05:25:27 pm by I am lizard »

Offline Murdin

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2014, 06:57:30 pm »
>last tweet is listed 12 seconds ago
 >she isn’t logged on
 >the guy’s account is now deleted, disputing how quickly she seemed to know he was tweeting
 >didn’t call the police or any kind of authorities, despite the ‘fact’ that he knew her and her parents’ addresses, instead choosing to tell twitter about it

0/10 would not believe

Or... she received the first tweets on her cellphone, browsed "Kevin Dobson"'s page on a computer she does not own / use Twitter with, and took screenshots as each message came in order to catch the last one before the harasser predictably deleted his fake account.

Besides... say what you want about Anita Sarkeesian, but she certainly doesn't need to post fake doxxes of herself in order to claim harassment. What would be the motive for her actions? She felt jealous of the attention Zoe Quinn brought around herself and decided to pull the exact same trick?

Offline WatermelonRat

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 93
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2014, 08:36:17 pm »
This, combined with the protest to "shut down Steam", makes me think these people don't actually want change, they just want to piss people off. It's a brilliant strategy, really, get enough people pissed off that they start raging at you endlessly, then you can claim that you're the victim, and that it's all just a bunch of bullies attacking you.

Unfortunately, you start condemning things like fun in games and no one, but no one wants to listen to you anymore. Keep your SJW bullshit out of my entertainment, please.
What do you mean "These people".
If you're trying to passive aggressively refer to Saskeriaadnfdsfa and people who follow her then this is stupid.
For one, considering saskgn-fuckit, the video game feminism woman has received rape and death threats that have driven her out of her home, I would say she is in full right to call herself a victim. 

And I highly doubt a stupid article from somewhere and a misguided petition to inconvenience thousands are proof that there's some massive movement to "Ruin games".


If you're referring to the No-fun article then, yeah, it's stupid, although ultimately irrelevant.

Yeah, about those "threats"...



>last tweet is listed 12 seconds ago
 >she isn’t logged on
 >the guy’s account is now deleted, disputing how quickly she seemed to know he was tweeting
 >didn’t call the police or any kind of authorities, despite the ‘fact’ that he knew her and her parents’ addresses, instead choosing to tell twitter about it

0/10 would not believe
I find it perfectly believable that someone, somewhere, sent her death threats. She's on the internet and she has a contentious opinion, which pretty much guaruntees it. It just happens to be completely irrelevant to the matter at hand.

I'm reminded strongly of an instance a few years ago (2009/2010 I think) where Glenn Beck devoted airtime to talk about all of the death threats he's received and how he had to have a bodyguard with him when he went to the movies with family. Seeing comments sections full of people talking about how "those liberals are so violent!" and "they're angry because they know he's right" while avoiding anything of substance has severely dimmed my view of anyone using this tactic in a debate.

Offline I am lizard

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3545
    • https://www.instagram.com/p/9SIHifrULJ/
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #81 on: September 01, 2014, 09:03:26 pm »
Well the problem is not just the death threats with Anita, but also the broader aspect of shaming and hate aimed at women in the nerd community.

So it's true the death threats were probably just some wanker spouting shit, the gaming community is still, pardon my Tumblespeek, toxic.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:13:20 pm by I am lizard »

Offline Cloud3514

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1776
  • 404: Personal text not found.
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #82 on: September 01, 2014, 10:14:47 pm »
Ya know, you say that sex isn't currency, but I've seen folks treat it an awful lot like money.  Fuck the professor, get good grades.  Fuck your boss, keep from getting fired.  Fuck a politician, get their vote or even get famous enough to get a book deal so you can seal your financial success for the rest of your life.  If you claim "sex is just a means to an end," then...so is money.  Money is a means to get food, shelter, water, and pretty much everything but the air you breathe.  There are more forms of currency than just money.

Also, gaming journalism has been corrupt since long before it became a big thing in the internet.  Hell, journalism in general has been fucked for generations.  It'd be nice if all journalists were honest, hard-working people who wouldn't take a bribe, but alas, we live in the real world.  However, calling this bullshit out when it happens is perfectly acceptable, if you ask me.  Shine a light on the mold, maybe you'll do some damage to it.

Except that, like I said, Quinn got nothing out of it and, also like I said, if this were about journalism, it would have been focused Nathan Greyson. I never said that game journalism doesn't have ethics issues, quite the opposite, actually, but this entire controversy has NOTHING to do with journalism.

For once, I agree with UP. You're full of shit. The matter is that people are focusing on the "Five Guys" as well. 

Except they're not. The entire conversation is about Quinn. If it wasn't, no one would talk about her cheating on her boyfriend because that's her problem. If it wasn't, the conversation would be focused on the journalists and why they allegedly slept with her. It would be about actually holding journalists accountable for their unethical actions.

EDIT: Upon looking more into this just to figure out what the fuck is actually going on, I've come to the conclusion that I have no idea what this whole thing is about. I still maintain that this started from a misogynist shit storm intended to attack a woman for something in her personal life and that the reason why the game media isn't/wasn't covering it is a simple matter of it largely having nothing to do with journalism, but the question is what the fuck is it about?

All I can find on it is little more than hyperbole and vitriol, as well as misogynistic false equivalency (including a comparison of Anita Sarkeesian to Jack Thompson), but very little hard facts and practically no explanations. As I may have spoken from a position of ignorance based on what I did know because I didn't realize that it became the mess it did, can anyone explain in layman's terms what the fuck is going on in the first place?

EDIT 2: In my research, I have yet to figure out what the fuck is actually going on, but I will say that the name Nathan Greyson has popped up exactly once. Furthermore, I see a lot of people taking Tumblr and 4chan posts claiming to be of people who are "in the know," if you will, with no citations or sources at face value.

So, I'm going to say that my opinion on this matter until someone can actually explain what the fuck is going on is that this is the result of a bunch of people who don't know otherwise making assumptions that they have no legitimate way of proving. The clear lack of proper organized explanation is not helping their case, after all.

The thing that sticks out to me the most however, is the complete and total lack of citation. There are no sources of any of the allegations put forth. I'm not talking about people citing things that go back to the beginning of the shit storm that we know to be truthful, IE, the DMCA, Quinn's actions in regards to the Game Jam organized by TFYC, etc. In fact, all I'm seeing on this is rhetoric, hyperbole and false equivalency. As well as quite a bit of misogyny, but as no one discussing this situation from any angle is excusing the misogyny, I think we can all agree that, while some of this reeks of it, this has built to become more about something else.

The problem, however, is that I HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT THAT SOMETHING ELSE IS!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 12:25:19 am by Cloud3514 »
Who needs a signature?

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2014, 10:58:30 am »
Ya know, you say that sex isn't currency, but I've seen folks treat it an awful lot like money.  Fuck the professor, get good grades.  Fuck your boss, keep from getting fired.  Fuck a politician, get their vote or even get famous enough to get a book deal so you can seal your financial success for the rest of your life.  If you claim "sex is just a means to an end," then...so is money.  Money is a means to get food, shelter, water, and pretty much everything but the air you breathe.  There are more forms of currency than just money.

Also, gaming journalism has been corrupt since long before it became a big thing in the internet.  Hell, journalism in general has been fucked for generations.  It'd be nice if all journalists were honest, hard-working people who wouldn't take a bribe, but alas, we live in the real world.  However, calling this bullshit out when it happens is perfectly acceptable, if you ask me.  Shine a light on the mold, maybe you'll do some damage to it.

Except that, like I said, Quinn got nothing out of it and, also like I said, if this were about journalism, it would have been focused Nathan Greyson. I never said that game journalism doesn't have ethics issues, quite the opposite, actually, but this entire controversy has NOTHING to do with journalism.

For once, I agree with UP. You're full of shit. The matter is that people are focusing on the "Five Guys" as well. 

Except they're not. The entire conversation is about Quinn. If it wasn't, no one would talk about her cheating on her boyfriend because that's her problem. If it wasn't, the conversation would be focused on the journalists and why they allegedly slept with her. It would be about actually holding journalists accountable for their unethical actions.

EDIT: Upon looking more into this just to figure out what the fuck is actually going on, I've come to the conclusion that I have no idea what this whole thing is about. I still maintain that this started from a misogynist shit storm intended to attack a woman for something in her personal life and that the reason why the game media isn't/wasn't covering it is a simple matter of it largely having nothing to do with journalism, but the question is what the fuck is it about?

All I can find on it is little more than hyperbole and vitriol, as well as misogynistic false equivalency (including a comparison of Anita Sarkeesian to Jack Thompson), but very little hard facts and practically no explanations. As I may have spoken from a position of ignorance based on what I did know because I didn't realize that it became the mess it did, can anyone explain in layman's terms what the fuck is going on in the first place?

EDIT 2: In my research, I have yet to figure out what the fuck is actually going on, but I will say that the name Nathan Greyson has popped up exactly once. Furthermore, I see a lot of people taking Tumblr and 4chan posts claiming to be of people who are "in the know," if you will, with no citations or sources at face value.

So, I'm going to say that my opinion on this matter until someone can actually explain what the fuck is going on is that this is the result of a bunch of people who don't know otherwise making assumptions that they have no legitimate way of proving. The clear lack of proper organized explanation is not helping their case, after all.

The thing that sticks out to me the most however, is the complete and total lack of citation. There are no sources of any of the allegations put forth. I'm not talking about people citing things that go back to the beginning of the shit storm that we know to be truthful, IE, the DMCA, Quinn's actions in regards to the Game Jam organized by TFYC, etc. In fact, all I'm seeing on this is rhetoric, hyperbole and false equivalency. As well as quite a bit of misogyny, but as no one discussing this situation from any angle is excusing the misogyny, I think we can all agree that, while some of this reeks of it, this has built to become more about something else.

The problem, however, is that I HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT THAT SOMETHING ELSE IS!

I hope this will enlighten you:

http://whatculture.com/gaming/10-things-need-know-gamergate-scandal.php

Offline I am lizard

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3545
    • https://www.instagram.com/p/9SIHifrULJ/
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2014, 12:39:37 pm »
That doesn't explain much.

Offline Cloud3514

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1776
  • 404: Personal text not found.
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2014, 01:21:41 pm »
10: I can find evidence to the contrary.
9: Sure, but the vast majority of rape and death threats go to women.
8: Sure, but no one ever said it was ONLY men. The fact that they need to point out "it's not ONLY men" raises an eyebrow.
7: NO SHIT SHERLOCK!
6: Yes, but, as I've very clearly stated, the responsibility is on the journalist, not the person that journalist allegedly slept with. Not to mention that, again, I can't find any actually sourced evidence that supports this claim.
5: Citation needed.
4: NO SHIT SHERLOCK!
3: From who? Are you seriously trying to say that the evil game news outlets organized a smear campaign to discredit a "movement" that doesn't need help getting smeared due to misogynists intermingled with the people who are legitimately trying to make things better?
2: Like I said, there is no factual citations or sources to prove that censorship is actually going on.
1: NO SHIT SHERLOCK!

Here's the thing, sources are what I'm asking for. Proof. Citations. Whatever you want to call it, every claim I've seen in regards to "GamerGate" is unsourced or anonymous. Sourcing is a two way street. If the press makes a claim, you expect a source from them, but if the people make a claim, you should still expect a source.
Who needs a signature?

Offline I am lizard

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3545
    • https://www.instagram.com/p/9SIHifrULJ/
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #86 on: September 02, 2014, 01:26:05 pm »
My problem with the article was that it felt like it was denying the legitimate issues in the gaming industry and community relating to sexism.
And yes, most gamers are decent, but enough of them are dickwads that it alienates many female gamers.

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8108
  • Gender: Male
  • A man of no consequence.
    • My Twitter
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #87 on: September 02, 2014, 03:31:59 pm »
Shit, the assholes alienate a lot of gamers in general.  But, yeah, it does disproportionately affect women.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline Murdin

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #88 on: September 02, 2014, 05:41:09 pm »
That felt like a long winded denial of everything wrong with gamer culture as a whole,  :(

It is.

While trying to prove that, I quote, "the gaming community" is not "Saudi Arabia" "this hateful, male-dominated, cesspool", they showcase the very issues that were levied, often from the inside, by non-stupid people against the wider gaming community.
  • Rejection of legitimate criticism, often by strawmanning said criticism into a mix of SJW-style inanities ("gamers don't want women in their video games", "only women are harassed") and timeless cliches ("THEY are not against US because THEY see US as X, THEY call US X because THEY are against US", "Why do you hate America people who like playing video games?")
  • Victim-blaming. Not even commenting on that one. Ugh.
  • Sexist double standards. I must admit that this specific article stayed fairly restrained on that point, but the whole "harassing Zoe Quinn over her promiscuity isn't misogynistic" thing was pretty iffy.
  • Egocentrism. Waaaah, the very existence of video games that doesn't cater to me is misandrist and a threat for the entire dudebrohood industry!
  • Plain old denial about the torrent of misogyny (and misandry, and racism, and...) that sweeps through the Internet every day, let alone the fact that Quinnspiracy triggered a particularly violent outbreak of gender-tinted unpleasantness.
  • And, of course, my favorite: persecution complex. "7. Not All Gamers Send Death Threats And Harass People". No sarcasm whatsoever. WTF?

A considerable number of gamers have behaved and are still behaving in a problematic way throughout this clusterfuck. Get the fuck over it. There is a big difference between letting SJW Tumblrinas or the Gawker "journalists" strip us naked under the pretense that we are covered in dirt, and dusting that shit off the gaming community by ourselves.

Also - "/v/ – which is usually dismissed as a extremely misogynist part of the internet." Undeservedly so? Should we reconsider our opinion on Iran because they have a high proportion of women in tertiary education?


Really, this article is a good exposition of the dynamics that are going on throughout the so-called "gaming community", about feminism and inclusion in general. There are only two sides that ever matter, and both of them are absolutely full of shit.

I'm not even going to mention those on either side who go beyond the boundaries of uncivil debate. Those who extend their fanatic struggle to the private lives of their opponents through harassment, death threats, doxxing or assault. Because fuck those people with an Ebola-infected cactus until they die from a double whammy of internal bleeding.

On top of their ivory tower, you have pandering "progressive" journalists, social justice bloggers that may or may not have any interest in video games, and lying, confrontational attention whores like Phil Fish, who only seem to be in to throw insults at gamers. Those people have a narrative to sell for this kind of situation, and they are unwilling to deviate from it. The lone, brave hero has to remain as pure and spotless as possible, and the villains must be uniformly vile, hateful, and faceless. Sometimes it fits the overall situation well enough to count as embellishment rather than misinformation. Other times, they have to resort to cherry-picking and lies by omissions, pruning a complex reality in order to allow their narrative to stand out. And in a recent, notorious but altogether minor case... yeah. Unfortunately, this side also include those precious few developers that actually care about inclusiveness, people who genuinely feel marginalized by the gaming community (for all her flaws, this may or may not include Anita Sarkeesian herself), and actual victims of harassment from the gaming community (which definitely includes Sarkeesian).

At the grassroots, most gamers, along with the various figures that claim to represent them, grouped their voices in a glorious circle-jerk of xenophobia and persecution complex. Those brave people lead an endless crusade against political correctness (read, basic decency towards people outside their in-group), widespread stigmatisation of gamers (read, simple criticism of specific individuals, groups, games, or character depictions) and censorship (read... well, sometimes, actual censorship, but usually simple criticism). All of this with the gleeful support of the right-wing hate machine. Unfortunately, this side also includes ignorant 12 year olds that cherish the idea of belonging in and fighting for their own oppressed group (does that ring a bell to anyone?) and actual victims of harassment from the social justice community.

Not that there aren't a LOT of people in the gaming community at large who are very much aware of the issue but refuse to jump in either bandwagon. But these people don't matter at all. Silence, cynical comments or quick asides do not speak as loudly as the passionate diatribes of those that evangelize the ignorant masses and preach to their choirs. Sanity has no place in a clash of prejudices.

By the way, I could make an erringly similar commentary about the state of the English-speaking atheist community after the Elevatorgate debacle.

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8108
  • Gender: Male
  • A man of no consequence.
    • My Twitter
Re: Quinnspiracy
« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2014, 06:37:17 am »
We need a massive scandal involving a gate, somehow.  That way, maybe people will call it "Gategate," and at least the recursion will be enough to mildly amuse me whilst the perpetuation of the -gate meme simultaneously annoys me.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.