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I have no idea how the American high-school system works with electives and all that, so I can't really comment on it. I wouldn't doubt that it can use a fair bit of rewriting, though.My point is that removing relatively basic stuff* from the curriculum will have negative side effects. And I'm sure it's annoying to have to learn maths when it looks like you'll never use it; I've had roughly similar experiences with most things I learnt in my last couple of years of secondary school. Quite a lot of which I've forgotten by now. But I also think that there should be a fair amount of the school curriculum that's there just for the purpose of getting exposed to new fields you didn't know before, and you might actually be interested in. I knew I'd go into science several years before finishing secondary, but I know a lot of people who changed their minds on what to study on their last years of secondary (or later). If they had determined too much of their final years' material beforehand, they would have never been exposed to the things they later decided interested them.*and Pythagoras' theorem is pretty fucking basic, in terms of maths that isn't just arithmetic. I actually find the idea of learning it in high school rather troubling; it should be learnt at primary school level, whatever it is you call that in America.
Humanity does learn from history,sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.
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Quote from: Sigmaleph on September 01, 2013, 10:42:55 pmI have no idea how the American high-school system works with electives and all that, so I can't really comment on it. I wouldn't doubt that it can use a fair bit of rewriting, though.My point is that removing relatively basic stuff* from the curriculum will have negative side effects. And I'm sure it's annoying to have to learn maths when it looks like you'll never use it; I've had roughly similar experiences with most things I learnt in my last couple of years of secondary school. Quite a lot of which I've forgotten by now. But I also think that there should be a fair amount of the school curriculum that's there just for the purpose of getting exposed to new fields you didn't know before, and you might actually be interested in. I knew I'd go into science several years before finishing secondary, but I know a lot of people who changed their minds on what to study on their last years of secondary (or later). If they had determined too much of their final years' material beforehand, they would have never been exposed to the things they later decided interested them.*and Pythagoras' theorem is pretty fucking basic, in terms of maths that isn't just arithmetic. I actually find the idea of learning it in high school rather troubling; it should be learnt at primary school level, whatever it is you call that in America.That's the issue with the American high school system. It is counterproductive to exposing you to fields. It gets the bare essentials and a few electives. What I'm calling for is less things everyone has to take and more room for various electives.
Life for the sake of life means nothing.
Quote from: PosthumanHeresy on September 01, 2013, 10:49:29 pmQuote from: Sigmaleph on September 01, 2013, 10:42:55 pmI have no idea how the American high-school system works with electives and all that, so I can't really comment on it. I wouldn't doubt that it can use a fair bit of rewriting, though.My point is that removing relatively basic stuff* from the curriculum will have negative side effects. And I'm sure it's annoying to have to learn maths when it looks like you'll never use it; I've had roughly similar experiences with most things I learnt in my last couple of years of secondary school. Quite a lot of which I've forgotten by now. But I also think that there should be a fair amount of the school curriculum that's there just for the purpose of getting exposed to new fields you didn't know before, and you might actually be interested in. I knew I'd go into science several years before finishing secondary, but I know a lot of people who changed their minds on what to study on their last years of secondary (or later). If they had determined too much of their final years' material beforehand, they would have never been exposed to the things they later decided interested them.*and Pythagoras' theorem is pretty fucking basic, in terms of maths that isn't just arithmetic. I actually find the idea of learning it in high school rather troubling; it should be learnt at primary school level, whatever it is you call that in America.That's the issue with the American high school system. It is counterproductive to exposing you to fields. It gets the bare essentials and a few electives. What I'm calling for is less things everyone has to take and more room for various electives.If you wanna go that way, then 'nix the required English courses. Seriously, if you don't know how to read, write, and speak proper fucking English, or a close facsimile, after 9 or so years of having it taught to you, then you're not gonna fucking learn it.
My father who has done manual labor all of his life once told me that Pythagoras' theorem is in his opinion one of the most important things he ever learned at primary school. Knowing how to improvise a tool to measure an accurate right angle has been immensely useful to him in many situations.
Quote from: PosthumanHeresy on September 01, 2013, 06:39:34 pmThe shirt has a point. Chances are, if you enjoyed math beforehand, you'd already want to go into math classes. For people like me, who think math is about as enjoyable as getting shot in the nuts, always have, and always will, I could have done without the shit taught in high school, outside of financial mathematics (which is why I'm taking it this year, my senior year), and taken courses that I would actually apply to my life and use to expand my knowledge. Guess what I don't remember any of? Did you guess "Algebra or Geometry"? You're completely correct! It's being able to regurgitate it long enough to pass, not learning.Without at least some maths classes, you can't actually know whether you'll like maths or not. Most maths-liking people (e.g. me) don't actually know that we are until we, y'know, go to school and learn some maths beyond basic arithmetic. For example, Pythagoras' Theorem (which is actually useful in general beyond going into a maths-intensive field, but I digress).I would also make the (weaker) argument that learning maths teaches fundamental reasoning skills that can be applied in general outside the specific domain. Most fields have some use for abstract logical thinking, but mathematics is made of it, which makes it ideally suited for teaching itAnd, finally: statistics. It can come up in nearly everything, it is frequently misunderstood, and it takes some mathematical reasoning beyond basic arithmetic to use it at the 'bare competence' level. It is as fundamental to an informed populace as history or civics, and schools have just as much of a duty to prepare students to deal with it.To acknowledge my biases here: I'm a mathy person, and I tend to think in mathematical terms, which can lead me to underestimate the difficulty of learning maths and overestimate its importance. Which is why I qualify as weak the 'abstract reasoning' argument.
The shirt has a point. Chances are, if you enjoyed math beforehand, you'd already want to go into math classes. For people like me, who think math is about as enjoyable as getting shot in the nuts, always have, and always will, I could have done without the shit taught in high school, outside of financial mathematics (which is why I'm taking it this year, my senior year), and taken courses that I would actually apply to my life and use to expand my knowledge. Guess what I don't remember any of? Did you guess "Algebra or Geometry"? You're completely correct! It's being able to regurgitate it long enough to pass, not learning.
Quote from: SCarpelan on September 02, 2013, 12:35:06 amMy father who has done manual labor all of his life once told me that Pythagoras' theorem is in his opinion one of the most important things he ever learned at primary school. Knowing how to improvise a tool to measure an accurate right angle has been immensely useful to him in many situations.Again, it depends on the field. For a large portion of human beings, it's as important as knowing not to wear white after Labor Day (which reminds me, I should get white pants so I can wear them with a white shirt soon).
ETA: If I recall correctly, we first learned Pythagoras' theorem in junior high. We made some use of it in high school, but I'm pretty sure I remember learning about it in either grade 8 or 9. Mind you, I'm in Canada, so it's possible things are different in the States.
The logical response to getting that tingle in his dingle is turning into an asshat, of course.
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
For I was an hungred, and ye told me to pull myself up by my bootstraps: I was thirsty, and ye demanded payment for the privilege of thine urine: I was a stranger, and ye deported me: naked, and ye arrested me for indecency.
I could've sworn we did Pythagoras in Year 4 or so at Primary school (age 9-10) in the UK, it's there with the times tables for basic maths. The government's now suggesting that people who fail the maths GCSE (exam at 16) should study more maths until they pass it. This is along with the leaving age being raised to 18.
