FSTDT Forums
Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Ultimate Paragon on January 20, 2014, 09:18:07 pm
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Homosexuality has made great strides in the media. Homosexual characters have gone from being marginalized as villains and walking jokes to being well-developed. However, there's a flipside to the coin: people seeing gay subtext where none exists.
I wish modern audiences would stop interpreting EVERYTHING in the media as gay. One character helping another up, characters arguing a lot, or characters just demonstrating friendly or even sibling-esque affection will all get labeled evidence that they secretly want to bone. This doesn't bother me because I'm uncomfortable with gay sexuality; it bothers me because I'm uncomfortable with everything being interpreted as sexuality in the first place. For God's sake people, there are other types of relationships. Some shows encourage this subtext on purpose, but in many cases it's just fans letting their imaginations get waaaaay away from them.
Why do you think this is going on?
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You're talking about fanfiction writers? If so, I wouldn't take them too seriously. They're just yet another breed of stupid fantards on the internet, right up there with weeaboos, bronies, most Mass Effect fans and the like. Incredibly loud and annoying, but also completely irrelevant to anyone with half a functioning brain. Probably best not to take them too seriously, much less assume they represent all consumers.
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Its like everyone keeps talking about the underlying homoeroticism in Brideshead Revisited. I don't get it.
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Homoerotic subtext has always been there, and people have always seen it where it may or may not be there. The difference is that the internet allows people with "two guys talked? THEY MUST BUTTFUCK" notions to band together and form an echo chamber. That, and it's much more acceptable to talk about homosexuality in general without worrying about the Secret Police/Inquisition/etc.
(Slightly off topic, but: Art, which brony/Mass Effect fan crapped in your cornflakes?)
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(Slightly off topic, but: Art, which brony/Mass Effect fan crapped in your cornflakes?)
Eh? It's not one fan, it's that those fandoms overall tend to me the most loud and obnoxious on the internet right now. Admittedly, bronies have mellowed out quite a bit recently, but by god do they have a history.
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I find it to be quite heavy in people that talk a lot about lgbt rights. The more they interpret faggotry in a given media, the more they wish the faggotry would appear on screen and give gay representation. And when they dont get the buttsex they oh so crave they search for even more subtextual cocksucking to yell about
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(Slightly off topic, but: Art, which brony/Mass Effect fan crapped in your cornflakes?)
Eh? It's not one fan, it's that those fandoms overall tend to me the most loud and obnoxious on the internet right now. Admittedly, bronies have mellowed out quite a bit recently, but by god do they have a history.
When one of their favorite blogs Ask Princess Molestria got the boot, I wouldn't say they've calmed down at all. I am sadly doubtful they will ever.
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(Slightly off topic, but: Art, which brony/Mass Effect fan crapped in your cornflakes?)
Eh? It's not one fan, it's that those fandoms overall tend to me the most loud and obnoxious on the internet right now. Admittedly, bronies have mellowed out quite a bit recently, but by god do they have a history.
When one of their favorite blogs Ask Princess Molestria got the boot, I wouldn't say they've calmed down at all. I am sadly doubtful they will ever.
Well, they're keeping it to their own, Brony specific corners of the internet, rather than spreading it anywhere and everywhere, so that's a win in my book. I don't care what's going on within the fandom, as long as I don't have to constantly hear about it.
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...Anyone else think that the OP is a euphemism for a gay orgy?
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Because in most cases, the slash writes itself?
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To the best of my understanding, perceived gay subtext is a combination of human sexuality, human curiosity, and human imagination. In other words, it's a byproduct of our wonderful and wacky human nature.
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I'd be interested in the demographics. According to stereotype, yaoi fans are all young girls in early to middle puberty. Does anyone has any stats as to what degree this is true?
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Was the f word really necessary?
Also canon gay characters are so under represented that we crave representation
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Homosexuality has made great strides in the media. Homosexual characters have gone from being marginalized as villains and walking jokes to being well-developed. However, there's a flipside to the coin: people seeing gay subtext where none exists.
I wish modern audiences would stop interpreting EVERYTHING in the media as gay. One character helping another up, characters arguing a lot, or characters just demonstrating friendly or even sibling-esque affection will all get labeled evidence that they secretly want to bone. This doesn't bother me because I'm uncomfortable with gay sexuality; it bothers me because I'm uncomfortable with everything being interpreted as sexuality in the first place. For God's sake people, there are other types of relationships. Some shows encourage this subtext on purpose, but in many cases it's just fans letting their imaginations get waaaaay away from them.
Why do you think this is going on?
But man, Sherlock TOTALLY wants to bone Moriarty!!!1!
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I find it to be quite heavy in people that talk a lot about lgbt rights. The more they interpret faggotry in a given media, the more they wish the faggotry would appear on screen and give gay representation. And when they dont get the buttsex they oh so crave they search for even more subtextual cocksucking to yell about
I was about to go "This guy's gonna die" and then I remembered who was posting.
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Was about to say that's a legit critisim but it's Hof so yeah.
I really wish people would not see homosexuality in everything. Case in popular point, Frozen. The world of Tumblr is going insane saying that the two sisters are lesbians for one another. And I'm like...what?
Ironbite-seriously?
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Was about to say that's a legit critisim but it's Hof so yeah.
I really wish people would not see homosexuality in everything. Case in popular point, Frozen. The world of Tumblr is going insane saying that the two sisters are lesbians for one another. And I'm like...what?
Ironbite-seriously?
That's one of the most ridiculous cases, frankly. It's like they can't understand that level of love and companionship WITHOUT a romantic and/or sexual relationship coupled with it.
I remember reading something regarding how it's viewed as perfectly normal and even positive to turn canonically heterosexual characters homosexual or at least bisexual, and slash fans will occasionally try to declare their new sexual preference canon. But attempts to hook up a canonically homosexual or bisexual character with the opposite gender is viewed by the exact same people as horrendous.
It ends up inadvertently saying "Being gay is natural. Being straight is a choice." And if you ever end up inadvertently reversing a common saying bigots use against you, you should look a bit closer at how you're going about equality.
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I think one reason for people lookin for homosexuality from the subtext is that for a long time that is where it was. One of the latest Cracked articles mentioned the implied (if not well hidden) gay romance subplot in a Charlton Heston movie and likewise the whole "hide your gays" trope has been in existence for a long time.
Even if these days the audience is more accepting of gay couples in movies and series Hollywood and the big companies are still afraid of losing profits by having sexual minorities represented. (Then again Hollywood is afraid that passing the Bechdel test would make a movie unmarketable so what do they know...)
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Homosexuality has made great strides in the media. Homosexual characters have gone from being marginalized as villains and walking jokes to being well-developed. However, there's a flipside to the coin: people seeing gay subtext where none exists.
I wish modern audiences would stop interpreting EVERYTHING in the media as gay. One character helping another up, characters arguing a lot, or characters just demonstrating friendly or even sibling-esque affection will all get labeled evidence that they secretly want to bone. This doesn't bother me because I'm uncomfortable with gay sexuality; it bothers me because I'm uncomfortable with everything being interpreted as sexuality in the first place. For God's sake people, there are other types of relationships. Some shows encourage this subtext on purpose, but in many cases it's just fans letting their imaginations get waaaaay away from them.
Why do you think this is going on?
But man, Sherlock TOTALLY wants to bone Moriarty!!!1!
Noooo, it's Sherlock wants to bone John!!!1!1 Johnlock 5eva!!!!!111!!1!111one111!!!!eleven!!!onehundredeleven!!
(I would have also added a fake death threat in reference to the fact that some shippers take their ships way too seriously. I mean I've seen stuff almost like this in the Sonic/Amy vs. Sonic/Sally days on deviantART. And this was back in 2006.)
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Homosexuality has made great strides in the media. Homosexual characters have gone from being marginalized as villains and walking jokes to being well-developed. However, there's a flipside to the coin: people seeing gay subtext where none exists.
I wish modern audiences would stop interpreting EVERYTHING in the media as gay. One character helping another up, characters arguing a lot, or characters just demonstrating friendly or even sibling-esque affection will all get labeled evidence that they secretly want to bone. This doesn't bother me because I'm uncomfortable with gay sexuality; it bothers me because I'm uncomfortable with everything being interpreted as sexuality in the first place. For God's sake people, there are other types of relationships. Some shows encourage this subtext on purpose, but in many cases it's just fans letting their imaginations get waaaaay away from them.
Why do you think this is going on?
But man, Sherlock TOTALLY wants to bone Moriarty!!!1!
Noooo, it's Sherlock wants to bone John!!!1!1 Johnlock 5eva!!!!!111!!1!111one111!!!!eleven!!!onehundredeleven!!
(I would have also added a fake death threat in reference to the fact that some shippers take their ships way too seriously. I mean I've seen stuff almost like this in the Sonic/Amy vs. Sonic/Sally days on deviantART. And this was back in 2006.)
I remember reading somewhere that the actress that plays Mary Morsten on Sherlock got some death threats after her character married John Watson on the show.
Even better, her and Martin Freeman (John Watson) are married in real life. lol.
Shipping really is serious buisness.
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And speaking of shipping and death threats:
Once upon a time (about almost a month ago, I think) there were a bunch of spamming in the 'ereri' tag on Tumblr (this is a shipping between Levi and Eren, two characters from Attack on Titan) and the shippers went nuts, even one claimed she got "triggered".
Also, I've read some of the serious entries on that tag. Holy shit were they nasty and juvenile.
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To be fair, it's not just modern audiences. People have known about Batman since at least the 1950s.
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To be fair, it's not just modern audiences. People have known about Batman since at least the 1950s.
Anyone else think it's funny that a character introduced to make Batman look less gay (Catwoman) is canonically gay/bi(?) herself?
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Was about to say that's a legit critisim but it's Hof so yeah.
I really wish people would not see homosexuality in everything. Case in popular point, Frozen. The world of Tumblr is going insane saying that the two sisters are lesbians for one another. And I'm like...what?
Ironbite-seriously?
Dont make me ship you and chit, the sexual tension is palpable.
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Was about to say that's a legit critisim but it's Hof so yeah.
I really wish people would not see homosexuality in everything. Case in popular point, Frozen. The world of Tumblr is going insane saying that the two sisters are lesbians for one another. And I'm like...what?
Ironbite-seriously?
Dont make me ship you and chit, the sexual tension is palpable.
Do it. Your conversion will be complete...
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The craziest bunch I know are the "J2" shippers, a part of the Supernatural fandom who not only ship the lead characters, but believe that their actors are gay lovers, but the Hollywood executives are forcing them to keep it a secret.
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Incidentally, I remember getting squicked at Frodo/Sam slash artwork, simply because I wasn't seeing Frodo and Sam, I was seeing Elijah Woods and Sean Astin. And that creeped me out.
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A thread about perceived homoeroticism in popular entertainment and not a single mention of 300? How does that even happen?
Though in the real life Spartan army homosexual sex with fellow soldiers was mandatory, so the homoeroticism probably isn't merely perceived it's probably intentional on the part of the film makers.
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A thread about perceived homoeroticism in popular entertainment and not a single mention of 300? How does that even happen?
Though in the real life Spartan army homosexual sex with fellow soldiers was mandatory, so the homoeroticism probably isn't merely perceived it's probably intentional on the part of the film makers.
One of the funniest historical inaccuracies in 300 is the Spartans mocking the Athenians by basically calling them gay. Maybe that would work with the young men in the audience who can laugh along, but in reality same-sex relationships were extraordinarily common in Ancient Greece and the Spartans specifically viewed it as an important part of the military's social structure. Unlike some groups, however, the Spartans weren't dumb enough to try and structure their units around homosexual companionship among soldiers.
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300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.
Not just referring to the movie, by the way.
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Why the hell did they turn Xerxes into Dhalsim from Street Fighter?
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A thread about perceived homoeroticism in popular entertainment and not a single mention of 300? How does that even happen?
Though in the real life Spartan army homosexual sex with fellow soldiers was mandatory, so the homoeroticism probably isn't merely perceived it's probably intentional on the part of the film makers.
One of the funniest historical inaccuracies in 300 is the Spartans mocking the Athenians by basically calling them gay. Maybe that would work with the young men in the audience who can laugh along, but in reality same-sex relationships were extraordinarily common in Ancient Greece and the Spartans specifically viewed it as an important part of the military's social structure. Unlike some groups, however, the Spartans weren't dumb enough to try and structure their units around homosexual companionship among soldiers.
"Dumb enough"?
Following their defeat of Athens, Sparta was defeated by Thebes largely thanks to their legendary Sacred Band, leading to Thebes dominating much of Greece until the Macedonian conquest.
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A thread about perceived homoeroticism in popular entertainment and not a single mention of 300? How does that even happen?
Though in the real life Spartan army homosexual sex with fellow soldiers was mandatory, so the homoeroticism probably isn't merely perceived it's probably intentional on the part of the film makers.
One of the funniest historical inaccuracies in 300 is the Spartans mocking the Athenians by basically calling them gay. Maybe that would work with the young men in the audience who can laugh along, but in reality same-sex relationships were extraordinarily common in Ancient Greece and the Spartans specifically viewed it as an important part of the military's social structure. Unlike some groups, however, the Spartans weren't dumb enough to try and structure their units around homosexual companionship among soldiers.
"Dumb enough"?
Following their defeat of Athens, Sparta was defeated by Thebes largely thanks to their legendary Sacred Band, leading to Thebes dominating much of Greece until the Macedonian conquest.
The Sacred Band was only 300 soldiers out of 8500 in the total army. The Thebans won the battle not because the Sacred Band was a bunch of superheroes, but because the Thebans used oblique order (focusing the majority of the push on a single flank of a battle) that was highly unusual at the time (being the first recorded instance of that tactic in history) and generally outmaneuvered the Spartans. The Sacred Band's contribution to the battle was primarily in holding back a section of the Spartan army that was being sent to stop the maneuver long enough for it to be completed. As important as they were, they didn't do much that was particularly special that a different group couldn't have done. They helped them succeed through freedom to maneuver out of the line into an interception.
The Athenians were upset at the Thebans beating the Spartans' collective ass, and the Sacred Band was destroyed almost at their next major battle, the Battle of Chaeronea. They were elite infantry, yes, but the decision to make it up entirely of homosexual couples did little or nothing to increase their effectiveness compared to their training and individual skill (the Sacred Band was chosen among soldiers purely by merit and ability, with no regards to social class).
They were arranged as pairs of lovers because of the logic that no man would want to abandon his lover or look like a coward in front of him; while this certainly kept them from retreating or surrendering, usually you WANT your elite units to retreat instead of letting themselves be ripped to shreds in a glorious but ultimately useless last stand. Despite the legends of groups like the 300 Spartans, small groups of soldiers facing down groups numbering in the thousands tend to get crushed and ground up pretty quickly just under the sheer weight of the imposing army without making a battle-turning dent on their way out.
The story of love conquering the notoriously rough and dangerous Spartans may make for a good story, but their contribution to the battle primarily came from training and selection for individual ability that made them actual elites.
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300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.
Not just referring to the movie, by the way.
I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan. I also seem to remember that someone else DID claim that it was a historically accurate movie so either those two disagreed over what kind of movie they were making (or the latter was on drugs all the time) or one of those was just a viewer theory on TVTROPES.
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300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.
Not just referring to the movie, by the way.
I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan.
That's how I always thought it was supposed to be; it's that one guy's verison of the story told in such a way to get the others all amped up for a glorious mega fight. I certainly never thought it was meant to be any kind of accurate history lesson. The elephants and rihnos the size of buildings was the first clue really.
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300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.
Not just referring to the movie, by the way.
I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan. I also seem to remember that someone else DID claim that it was a historically accurate movie so either those two disagreed over what kind of movie they were making (or the latter was on drugs all the time) or one of those was just a viewer theory on TVTROPES.
That theory still has some holes in it. For one, it doesn't explain why the Spartans would mock the Athenians for something they themselves took pride in doing.
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300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.
Not just referring to the movie, by the way.
I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan. I also seem to remember that someone else DID claim that it was a historically accurate movie so either those two disagreed over what kind of movie they were making (or the latter was on drugs all the time) or one of those was just a viewer theory on TVTROPES.
That theory still has some holes in it. For one, it doesn't explain why the Spartans would mock the Athenians for something they themselves took pride in doing.
Coz the writer didn't think that bit through and/or didn't do enough research to know the Spartans engaged in hmosexual sex.
I don't think the idea that the whole thing is intended to be a deliberatly inaccurate story with exaggerations that's being told by that one suriving Sparatan can be disputed when at the end of the film you're out right shown it's a story being told by that Spartan (plus his voice narrates the movie) AND the elephants look like this - (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147322/2828014-300elephant.jpg)
It's why the elphants are that big - they're exaggerated by that Spartan in his telling of the story, the way people often exaggerate when recounting tales of something amazing they did. If you know anyone who fishes or hunts you'll know all to well how people exaggerated the size of animals in their stories.
I doubt a movie/comic with 4+ story tall elephants, and in which a throne that probably weighs more than a house is being carried by only 4 people, was ever supposed to be historically accurate, call me crazy.
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I would rather see a war movie that is realistic
anyways WE SEE QUEER BECAUSE WE ARE SICK OF NOT SEEING GAY PEOPLE
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Kefka's pretty much got it right.
That and of course there's the people who fetishize homosexuality who want to see more of it.
As far as 300 goes, it doesn't have to be historically accurate, but the selective aspects of Spartan culture still bothers me. You can tell fantastic tales without actually presenting contradictory information.
I just... hate 300. The only good thing to come of it was the meme.
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As far as 300 goes, it doesn't have to be historically accurate, but the selective aspects of Spartan culture still bothers me. You can tell fantastic tales without actually presenting contradictory information.
Yeah, when I pointed out to one of my friends that the wolf in the cave that the boy warrior killed way at the beginning would actually have been as many slaves as he could without getting caught, he got this deer-in-the-headlights look and tried to prove me wrong.
It was both sad and funny.
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Now, if they had criticized the pederasty in Athens while, I dunno, showing Spartans being manly affectionate with each other, that would have been... better, I guess?
Although didn't Spartans also practice pederasty?
Or am I mixing stuff up again?
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Spartans were all Buck Dichs. (Rammstein)
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Now, if they had criticized the pederasty in Athens while, I dunno, showing Spartans being manly affectionate with each other, that would have been... better, I guess?
Although didn't Spartans also practice pederasty?
Or am I mixing stuff up again?
The entirety of Ancient Greece practiced pederasty. In fact, Sparta was one of the first city states to formalize the practice. The only thing is that they had an absolute taboo on pederasty involving sex, and viewed the elder banging the younger similarly to incest.
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Chit, do you mean vaginal, anal or oral penetrating was the only taboo in ancient Greek pederasty?
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Chit, do you mean vaginal, anal or oral penetrating was the only taboo in ancient Greek pederasty?
I mean sex altogether. However, I was specifically only talking about Spartan taboos; not every Greek state had identical views on it.