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Community => Science and Technology => Topic started by: Askold on May 13, 2014, 11:45:09 pm

Title: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Askold on May 13, 2014, 11:45:09 pm
http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/13/5714462/russia-will-cut-off-us-access-to-the-international-space-station-over

Basically, due to USA placing sanctions and otherwise dissaproving of Russia's zany schemes at Ukraine and Crimea Russia has decided to retaliate by kicking USA out of the International space station...

Since USA no longer has any shuttles or rockets and has relied on Russia for transportation to the ISS Russia believes that they can just bully USA by not giving them a lift.

If no other good thing comes from this whole mess maybe USA will atleast rebuild their space program.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 13, 2014, 11:52:39 pm
This is just petty.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: mellenORL on May 13, 2014, 11:53:18 pm
Elon Musk will solve that non-problem, given a little time and a level playing field.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Askold on May 14, 2014, 01:21:12 am
Elon Musk will solve that non-problem, given a little time and a level playing field.
Hmm...

If Russia doesn't back down soon NASA might try to get USA and other countries to throw some money at SpaceX or at least make a contract with them for doing missions to ISS (which will make investors throw money at them.)

So this might end up well. (Having the alternative of a private corporation doing space mission is a good thing but I certainly do not trust a company so much that I wouldn't also want some goverments being involved in space missions. But more competition might keep things balanced.)
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: I am lizard on May 14, 2014, 01:42:19 am
The solution here is simple, blow up the ISS.
If we can't have it no one can.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Ironchew on May 14, 2014, 02:02:31 am
Elon Musk will solve that non-problem, given a little time and a level playing field.

Here I was thinking Musk won a U.S. Court of Federal Claims case prohibiting Soyuz launches in the U.S. (http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/spacex-wins-court-injunction-block-russian-rocket-engine-purchases-n94361) He basically created the problem to benefit his own company at the expense of losing the only launch vehicle we have for manned spaceflight.

There's a huge conflict of interest here and Musk is right in the middle of it.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Art Vandelay on May 14, 2014, 04:41:04 am
Elon Musk will solve that non-problem, given a little time and a level playing field.
Hmm...

If Russia doesn't back down soon NASA might try to get USA and other countries to throw some money at SpaceX or at least make a contract with them for doing missions to ISS (which will make investors throw money at them.)

So this might end up well. (Having the alternative of a private corporation doing space mission is a good thing but I certainly do not trust a company so much that I wouldn't also want some goverments being involved in space missions. But more competition might keep things balanced.)
I can't help but think that if any private company were capable manned launches, they'd have done so already. Otherwise, why would NASA be paying the Russian government to send their astronauts to the ISS if an American corporation were able and willing? They already use SpaceX to get supplies into orbit, so there's no reason they wouldn't do the same for people if they had the option.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Askold on May 14, 2014, 06:01:54 am
Elon Musk will solve that non-problem, given a little time and a level playing field.

Here I was thinking Musk won a U.S. Court of Federal Claims case prohibiting Soyuz launches in the U.S. (http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/spacex-wins-court-injunction-block-russian-rocket-engine-purchases-n94361) He basically created the problem to benefit his own company at the expense of losing the only launch vehicle we have for manned spaceflight.

There's a huge conflict of interest here and Musk is right in the middle of it.
He might have self interest in mind when stopping the purchase of the rocket engines but he does have a point. USA made some sanctions to pressure Russia and until those sanctions are removed NASA will have to wait.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: mellenORL on May 14, 2014, 09:40:15 am
Lockheed Martin and Boeing did a partial merger, forming United Launch Alliance. They use Russian engines and components, and still their launch vehicles are one time use, at four times the price of Falcon rockets from SpaceX, which are soon to be recoverable and reusable, as well. Musk sued because he was effectively ignored when bidding as a launch service provider for DOD projects. That went without any bidding competition to United Launch Alliance. It was shady, wasting of potential tax dollar savings, and also very much an ethics issue, since the Russian components used by United Launch Alliance are made by a company and it's CEO who are near the top of the current US/Russia sanctions list. Musk's suit was a public service, and now the bidding is actually open to anyone besides SpaceX as well, including ULA.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Old Viking on May 16, 2014, 05:01:39 pm
You're a poopy head.

No, you're a poopy head.

No, you're a poopy head.

No I'm not.  You're a poopy head.

I'm telling mom.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Igor on May 16, 2014, 05:05:43 pm
Children. Fighting. In the back seat of the car. This isn't the first time I've made that comparison (I think the first time was in a grade 10 history class), but it applies here well enough, I think. Actually I find much of international politics boils down to that.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Barbarella on May 16, 2014, 07:26:10 pm
*sigh* There goes Glasnost! 20-something years of goodwill between us & the Ruskies shot to hell. Thanks a lot, Putin!

Well, this may be the thing we need to get NASA back in the "Blast Folks Into Space & Stuff" again! Hopefully, we would have voted out most or all of the Far-Right nuts out of Washington & be more willing to give NASA more money!

Heck, I've read that even many Republican voters are sick of the idiots passing for "Republican" these days. It would be great for Democrats to reach out to sane Republicans & Conservatives who aren't Far-Right crazy! We're in this together!

And who wants to sit on that smelly ol ISS, anyway? With our sanctions, it might hurt upkeep and god knows what would happen on that thing.

*sigh* I remember the days of Gorbechev, Peristroika, Glasnost, the fall of the USSR, the burgeoning partnership between us & Moscow. It wasn't a perfect friendship but it was something, considering our history. Granted, guys like Yeltsin were incompetent buffoons but at least Russians had more rights, LGBTs had more rights, Russia wasn't as invade-happy (though they still messed with Georgia & Chechnya on occasion) & things seemed fine between us.....

Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 16, 2014, 07:35:21 pm
*sigh* There goes Glasnost! 20-something years of goodwill between us & the Ruskies shot to hell. Thanks a lot, Putin!

Well, this may be the thing we need to get NASA back in the "Blast Folks Into Space & Stuff" again! Hopefully, we would have voted out most or all of the Far-Right nuts out of Washington & be more willing to give NASA more money!

Heck, I've read that even many Republican voters are sick of the idiots passing for "Republican" these days. It would be great for Democrats to reach out to sane Republicans & Conservatives who aren't Far-Right crazy! We're in this together!

And who wants to sit on that smelly ol ISS, anyway? With our sanctions, it might hurt upkeep and god knows what would happen on that thing.

*sigh* I remember the days of Gorbechev, Peristroika, Glasnost, the fall of the USSR, the burgeoning partnership between us & Moscow. It wasn't a perfect friendship but it was something, considering our history. Granted, guys like Yeltsin were incompetent buffoons but at least Russians had more rights, LGBTs had more rights, Russia wasn't as invade-happy (though they still messed with Georgia & Chechnya on occasion) & things seemed fine between us.....
History will not judge Putin kindly.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Barbarella on May 16, 2014, 07:43:24 pm
*sigh* There goes Glasnost! 20-something years of goodwill between us & the Ruskies shot to hell. Thanks a lot, Putin!

Well, this may be the thing we need to get NASA back in the "Blast Folks Into Space & Stuff" again! Hopefully, we would have voted out most or all of the Far-Right nuts out of Washington & be more willing to give NASA more money!

Heck, I've read that even many Republican voters are sick of the idiots passing for "Republican" these days. It would be great for Democrats to reach out to sane Republicans & Conservatives who aren't Far-Right crazy! We're in this together!

And who wants to sit on that smelly ol ISS, anyway? With our sanctions, it might hurt upkeep and god knows what would happen on that thing.

*sigh* I remember the days of Gorbechev, Peristroika, Glasnost, the fall of the USSR, the burgeoning partnership between us & Moscow. It wasn't a perfect friendship but it was something, considering our history. Granted, guys like Yeltsin were incompetent buffoons but at least Russians had more rights, LGBTs had more rights, Russia wasn't as invade-happy (though they still messed with Georgia & Chechnya on occasion) & things seemed fine between us.....
History will not judge Putin kindly.

And HOW!!!

And the ISS has a neat webcam now, too! *ARGH!*

I WANT MY GLASNOST BACK!!!!!

Where's Gorbechev & his birthmark when you need him most?! Russia's been taken over by The Riddler on a cheesy macho kick despite being "fun-sized"! He's Dobby's evil twin!
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: RavynousHunter on May 18, 2014, 08:15:14 am
So, going by Spuki's comparison, Putin is actually Kreacher?
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Barbarella on May 18, 2014, 01:32:51 pm
So, going by Spuki's comparison, Putin is actually Kreacher?

I'm afraid I don't get the reference. Who's Kreacher?
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2014, 01:52:00 pm
So, going by Spuki's comparison, Putin is actually Kreacher?

I'm afraid I don't get the reference. Who's Kreacher?
Another house elf, not as nice as Dobby.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: RavynousHunter on May 18, 2014, 03:28:14 pm
So, going by Spuki's comparison, Putin is actually Kreacher?

I'm afraid I don't get the reference. Who's Kreacher?
Another house elf, not as nice as Dobby.

This ol bugger:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Barbarella on May 20, 2014, 10:34:50 am
So, going by Spuki's comparison, Putin is actually Kreacher?

I'm afraid I don't get the reference. Who's Kreacher?
Another house elf, not as nice as Dobby.

Ah, thanks!

I confess, I never read/watched the Harry Potter series.

Anyway, V-Poo LOOKS like Dobby but acts like Kreacher.

He also looks a tad like a young Frank Gorshin, hence my comparisons to The Riddler.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: RavynousHunter on May 20, 2014, 04:04:56 pm
You should give Harry Potter a read, sometime, Spuki.  Unlike Twilight and Fifty Shades of Rape Grey, its popular because its good.  Well, except for the epilogue.  Everyone hates the epilogue.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Witchyjoshy on May 20, 2014, 06:50:46 pm
You should give Harry Potter a read, sometime, Spuki.  Unlike Twilight and Fifty Shades of Rape Grey, its popular because its good.

Indeed.
 
Quote
Well, except for the epilogue.  Everyone hates the epilogue.

Wait what?  I loved the epilogue.  The only hate I've seen towards it is that it ruined some ships.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Barbarella on May 20, 2014, 07:35:06 pm
Cool. I'll buy the whole series, sometime.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Art Vandelay on May 20, 2014, 08:49:54 pm
Well, except for the epilogue.  Everyone hates the epilogue.

Wait what?  I loved the epilogue.  The only hate I've seen towards it is that it ruined some ships.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Sleepy on May 20, 2014, 08:52:36 pm
Yeah, I found it to be lame and generally wishy-washy. Nothing really exciting or satisfying.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Askold on May 21, 2014, 01:32:56 am
Well, except for the epilogue.  Everyone hates the epilogue.

Wait what?  I loved the epilogue.  The only hate I've seen towards it is that it ruined some ships.
(click to show/hide)
And now you've spoiled it for Spukitty. Normally I would assume that people already know about the plot to so popular book/movie series but she specifically said she didn't.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Art Vandelay on May 21, 2014, 01:38:52 am
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. I'm pretty sure she's been offline since I posted that, so I added spoiler tags. You may want to do the same to your quote box.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Random Gal on May 21, 2014, 02:11:58 pm
The Space Shuttles never should have been retired in the first place. If they were still in use, we wouldn't have this issue.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: mellenORL on May 21, 2014, 11:17:02 pm
Speaking as a person who lives where you can easily see any launch from Cape Canaveral with your bare eyes... Sorry, but really the shuttles were just done. They were amazing and advanced when they were fist built, but take off and re entry are very hard on everything to do with their structural, hull and systems' integrity. They were each essentially rebuilt....after every single mission. That is why there were so many of them in service, and yet launches were pretty infrequent. It took many months, and many millions of dollars, to make a shuttle space worthy again after it ran a mission.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: RavynousHunter on May 22, 2014, 08:08:53 am
Well, except for the epilogue.  Everyone hates the epilogue.

Wait what?  I loved the epilogue.  The only hate I've seen towards it is that it ruined some ships.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Barbarella on May 22, 2014, 11:02:47 am
Well, except for the epilogue.  Everyone hates the epilogue.

Wait what?  I loved the epilogue.  The only hate I've seen towards it is that it ruined some ships.
(click to show/hide)
And now you've spoiled it for Spukitty. Normally I would assume that people already know about the plot to so popular book/movie series but she specifically said she didn't.

That's okay. It was in spoilers and didn't sound exciting anyway. Also, I'm aware of who ended up with who. No big deal. At least it shows that life went back to normal & peaceful.

Also, if it's an epilogue, one can ignore it if they don't like it. They usually have a sort of "throwaway blurb" aspect to them & I'm a fan of using Fanon Discontinuity.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanonDiscontinuity

As Joel said to The Bots on the Satellite of Love after they watched The Girl In Lover's Lane, "You don't have to accept the ending they give you".

This is why I think fanfic is a great for of therapy. If you have an ending or plot point, rewrite it. It may not be canon but canon schmanon, it's FICTION and therefore imaginary!

Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Random Gal on May 22, 2014, 11:52:20 am
*sigh*

(http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1386/01/1386011306966.jpg)
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: mellenORL on May 22, 2014, 12:03:09 pm
Now, that's a train wreck! Did the bridge collapse cause it? Anyway, someone somewhere will pick up the slack in re ISS transport vehicles. Six years can bring a lot of new developments.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Art Vandelay on May 22, 2014, 07:55:10 pm
It's just like old times. Back when going from the ISS to Harry Potter within a single page was business as usual.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: RavynousHunter on May 23, 2014, 09:49:01 am
It's just like old times. Back when going from the ISS to Harry Potter within a single page was business as usual.

Harry Potter is serious business!
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Barbarella on May 29, 2014, 04:56:27 pm
Sorry to be the derailer, now I'll put the train back on track.....

So! How 'bout them petulant Ruskies & the ISS?!
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Svata on June 04, 2014, 01:36:18 pm
As many others have said, hopefully this will get our government up off its lazy ass when it comes to the space program. Hopefully the Russians holding out on us will fire up the spirit of competition in us and get us off this rock, sending people into orbit by our own virtue and merit, rather than just hitching a ride.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: dpareja on June 04, 2014, 02:05:54 pm
I've seen it put that a big problem with the US space program is that every President comes in with a different vision of what it should be, and so the wheel keeps being reinvented. In Russia, they've just kept using the same design since they started.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Dr. Weird on June 04, 2014, 04:45:58 pm
I've seen it put that a big problem with the US space program is that every President comes in with a different vision of what it should be, and so the wheel keeps being reinvented. In Russia, they've just kept using the same design since they started.

That's quite true.  The American Apollo program was cut short by a combination of the expenses of the Vietnam War, and (reportedly) Richard Nixon's desire to stamp out something associated with JFK (who of course beat his ass in the 1960 election).  Werner Von Braun's ambitious Apollo Applications Program was chopped down to Skylab, and the United States didn't make a single manned space flight from mid 1975 through April 1981 because NASA was developing Nixon's darling, the Space Shuttle.  Hell, two complete Saturn 5s and two complete Saturn 1Bs went completely unflown (you can see components of them at Cape Canaveral, Houston, and Huntsville)

During the Duhbya Administration, Project Constellation was announced to be the post-Space Shuttle manned space flight program.  In 2010 the Obama Administration cancelled Constellation, and announced the Space Launch System.

The Russians, meanwhile, have been using essentially the same Vostok launch vehicle since 1961 (modified and modernized over time, but essentially the same).  The Soyuz spacecraft that ferry cosmonauts and astronauts to the ISS has gone through three design upgrades, but is essentially the same spacecraft that first flew in 1967, about the same time Apollo was getting ready for its first mission.

So, yeah, NASA's been a poliitical football for a long time.  If Obama's successor is a Republican, the SLS will undoubtedly be cancelled and replaced with something else.  If Obama's successor is a Democrat, well, it might still be cancelled and replaced with something else.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Ironchew on June 05, 2014, 01:00:43 am
I've seen it put that a big problem with the US space program is that every President comes in with a different vision of what it should be, and so the wheel keeps being reinvented. In Russia, they've just kept using the same design since they started.

That's quite true.  The American Apollo program was cut short by a combination of the expenses of the Vietnam War, and (reportedly) Richard Nixon's desire to stamp out something associated with JFK (who of course beat his ass in the 1960 election).  Werner Von Braun's ambitious Apollo Applications Program was chopped down to Skylab, and the United States didn't make a single manned space flight from mid 1975 through April 1981 because NASA was developing Nixon's darling, the Space Shuttle.  Hell, two complete Saturn 5s and two complete Saturn 1Bs went completely unflown (you can see components of them at Cape Canaveral, Houston, and Huntsville)

During the Duhbya Administration, Project Constellation was announced to be the post-Space Shuttle manned space flight program.  In 2010 the Obama Administration cancelled Constellation, and announced the Space Launch System.

The Russians, meanwhile, have been using essentially the same Vostok launch vehicle since 1961 (modified and modernized over time, but essentially the same).  The Soyuz spacecraft that ferry cosmonauts and astronauts to the ISS has gone through three design upgrades, but is essentially the same spacecraft that first flew in 1967, about the same time Apollo was getting ready for its first mission.

So, yeah, NASA's been a poliitical football for a long time.  If Obama's successor is a Republican, the SLS will undoubtedly be cancelled and replaced with something else.  If Obama's successor is a Democrat, well, it might still be cancelled and replaced with something else.

It's more a problem with Congress insofar as NASA's budget has to be approved every year. Space exploration isn't as popular as war profiteering for the big wigs so NASA inevitably has to accept drastic budget cuts. After several decades of budget cuts, many long-term missions get canned or repurposed and the public eventually notices a few differences.

Not to mention this is perhaps the most hostile Congress in recent history for budget proposals (again, war profiteering notwithstanding.)
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: RavynousHunter on June 06, 2014, 08:43:55 am
I'm sure, if we could phrase it in nothing but baby talk, that they'd pour a tonne of money into it if we said we could use it to intimidate the nasty brown countries.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Sigmaleph on June 06, 2014, 02:56:13 pm
I'm sure, if we could phrase it in nothing but baby talk, that they'd pour a tonne of money into it if we said we could use it to intimidate the nasty brown countries.

Alternatively, this:
(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090520.gif)

SMBC (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1522#comic)
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on June 06, 2014, 05:08:27 pm
I'm sure, if we could phrase it in nothing but baby talk, that they'd pour a tonne of money into it if we said we could use it to intimidate the nasty brown countries.
That or the Russkies.  After all, Putin seems hell-bent on restarting the Cold War.
Title: Re: Russia won't let USA use the ISS after 2020
Post by: RavynousHunter on June 06, 2014, 10:06:08 pm
I'm sure, if we could phrase it in nothing but baby talk, that they'd pour a tonne of money into it if we said we could use it to intimidate the nasty brown countries.
That or the Russkies.  After all, Putin seems hell-bent on restarting the Cold War.

He's, likely incorrectly, assuming we give a fuck about his antics beyond the human rights violations.  Outside that, the man's a pathetic fucking clown.