Random Explains Therianthropy/answers questions

[Sleepy]

Random nitpick: Random didn't say "if you have to ask, you aren't one" he's quoting others.

Also the otherkinness of zach and random doesn't affect you and neither does their perception of being born with it or otherwise. Get over it

All I have to say.

Queen goes through a lengthy discussion of how those things can affect transgendered folks, and all you have to say is "get over it"? That's not exactly a mature response.

[Vormir]

Here's my take on therianthropy.

First of all, I'm a furry, not a therian, and while not the same they are quite similar. I also like to think I've got a good understanding of what its like to be a therian. You actual therians can correct me if I'm wrong about anything.

Being a furry, to me, means I really like animal characters. It goes beyond just "like" though, its... a very deep preference. If you give me an RPG with different races, and one of them is an animal race, I will ALWAYS pick that one. It goes beyond even preference, however. Whenever I roleplay anything I roleplay as an anthropomorphic dog. Whenever I  fantasize about anything, I think of myself as an anthropomorphic animal character. I wish I was a dog, or an anthropomorphic dog. I know I can't be, so I fantasize about it.

I was also born this way. I can remember when I was really young I would play a game with my mom where I would pretend to be a dog. I loved certain movies just because they had talking dog characters, even when I never understood what was going on. I could much more easily put myself into those movies; I wanted to be a dog character in those movies. When falling asleep at night I would fantasize about what it would be like to be a dog. And, now that I'm older and have more mature tastes, I prefer my porn to be about anthropomorphic dogs. Not because I necessarily find them more arousing, but because I just like my fiction to have anthropomorphic dogs in it.

I don't believe in spirits or souls either, in a supernatural sense, but you do have things like a consciousness, and a sense of self, and a personality, and that's what some people would call a soul. By that definition, being a furry is a part of my soul.

From what I can tell, being a therian is very similar. It has a lot of the same characteristics of being a furry, but it's more than just *liking* anthropomorphic characters. It goes a step beyond and feels like some part of you inside *is* a particular animal. There's also shifting, which is *technically* a hallucination, similar to phantom limb syndrome.

Being transgendered is sort of similar, but its really not the same. The differences are that being transgender is pervasive; it affects almost every aspect of your life, all of the time. Being a furry or therian is something pretty much entirely inside you, that you can choose if or when to bring out to share with others. Also, a transgendered person has the potential to have surgery or hormone therapy and such to possibly change their physical gender, a furry or a therian does not. A furry wants to be a different species. A therian has a part of them that is a different species. A transgendered person IS a different gender.

When I or Random or Zachski talk about what its like to be a furry or a therian, we aren't saying anything about transgendered people or how we compare to them or how anything about us applies to anything about them, we are just talking about what we are, and nothing more. If furry/therianism has some kind of implication for, or impact on, transgendered people (which I sincerely do not think it does) then that isn't our fault. This is just how we are.

[Osama bin Bambi]

Firstly, I'd like to preface this by saying that I don't really care what any individual's spiritual beliefs are as long as they don't hurt anybody. I think that the whole otherkin/therian/etc. subculture is, to be perfectly honest, a bit strange, and there are some members of that community who really are dangerous and/or delusional. I know that some people consider otherkin and therian to be separate, but I'm using "otherkin" as the general term here because it's the term that's most familiar to me.

That being said, it is widely acknowledged that there are some (but not all) members of the community that try to conflate it with GID and transgender, and this practice is also acknowledged as completely unscientific and inaccurate. Personally, I'm more inclined to see "otherkinism" as a religious or spiritual belief more than a scientifically verifiable psychological state. The only actual medical cases I have heard of where a person actually acts like another animal because they think they have transformed into it is in instances of severe mental illness such as schizophrenia. Those cases are extremely rare, and most otherkin do not resemble that at all. Otherkin are human and probably do not have any significant organic difference that makes them the way they are. They may have a personal spiritual attraction to a certain animal, but there isn't exactly a portion of the brain dedicated to those sorts of things. However, there are clear biological, neurological, and genetic differences between cisgender people and transgender people that strongly suggest that transgender is a real identity with scientific evidence to back it up.

I think it is important to note that Zachski and several other otherkin tried to describe it as a spiritual belief, which is evidenced by their emphasis on their emotional attraction to the animal and what they feel are "parts of their soul." This is not a materialistic, scientific view of things, and unlike some other otherkin they do not try to justify it with butchered science because they know it is not scientifically verified. I have seen vampire-kin, also known as sanguinarians, try to justify their "bloodthirst" or "aura-thirst" on the ridiculous grounds that blood/psychic energy/etc. actually carries ATP (adenosine triphosphate, the main energy source of cells) and that strong emotions somehow create more ATP. That is not what we are seeing here.

To reiterate, I don't think there's anything inherently dangerous about otherkinism unless the person is delusional or if they are appropriating LGBT* terminology to "scientifically" back up their claims.

[Otend]

Queen, stop lashing out like a spoiled child.  You do this when someone so much as coughs in your direction by complete accident.

You're being an inverse fundamentalist here: different reasons, same level of absolute batshit.  You don't agree with his beliefs.  If you think that his beliefs should be suppressed for your own benefit, then you need to sit down and ask some serious questions about yourself.  You marginalize several groups (particularly pagans and otherkin) while claiming to be marginalized by a belief, as if your marginalizing others is somehow forgivable by saying what is effectively "he started it."

We are not suggesting that trans* and otherkin things are the same.  You are the one not only doing that, but insisting that we are doing so.  After doing this, you play the victim card and act like we're the assholes, while you're sitting here and screaming because people think something you don't.  THAT'S MY JOB.

[Distind]

And with that I'm going to ask people to relax a bit before I start doing some punting.

Personal identity is a touchy subject. Particularly when you feel someone is belittling yours. Watch a couple of the white guys twitch when privilege comes up, same deal. A little bit of respect and/or apathy goes a long way in smoothing a discussion on the topic. If you're too upset over it to have a calm discussion please take a while off from it and come back a bit more relaxed.

[QueenofHearts]

I've been debating how to address this issue and I will leave it at this. Otend, I feel I was called out in Zachski's post. I tried to illustrate how I feel and I mentioned several things that reflect how personal and delicate this subject is to me. I feel your reply was purposely insensitive. I'm not sorry for what I said, but please understand that I did not wish to offend. Moving on, I've said my piece and I plan to leave it as such.

[Witchyjoshy]

Sorry for taking so long to get to this, but I needed to be in the right frame of mind.  And I'd like to think I'm reasonably close to being in the right frame of mind.

Seeing as how Zach's post was a direct call out to me, I feel the need to respond.

I'm sorry that it came across that way.  I wasn't trying to challenge you or call you out.  I was trying to be diplomatic and assure you that I don't think of otherkin struggles as being anywhere close to trans struggles.  Apparently I failed spectacularly.

This distinction between spirit and mind is all good and well, except for the numerous short comings it has. First and foremost, I don't believe in spirits, or spectres, or souls.

That's fair.  I don't expect you to believe me when I say anything I say.  All I expect is understanding.  Not belief.

Feel free to think it's bullshit.  Fuck, half the people I'm friends with do, as well, and I'm fine with it because neither of us make a big deal out of it.

If spirits don't exist, then this whole distinction is dubious at best. At worst, it reverts the difference between otherkins/therians and ordinary people right back to being in the mind, which I will address later.

This is the point where I feel like you're trying to put words into my mouth.

You see, I do believe in spirits/souls/spectres, and I believe them to be distinctly different from the mind.

So to use this as a way to say that I am saying that I have the "mind of a dragon" is disingenous at best.

Second, I see this distinction as solely an ad hoc excuse to distance yourselves from criticism. Knowing that transpeople find such claims of "having an animal's brain" offensive, you (general) just move the goal posts further down the line and outside the range of our epistomological knowledge, but clearly a distinction exists between otherkins/therians and ordinary people, as I too will address later.

Except I'm not claiming I have an animal's brain (especially an animal that exists only in mythology.)  This is the problem I have with your previous conclusion -- it makes people claim things they aren't claiming.

To me, this is the inherent flaw of your argument, and it presupposes that your beliefs (or lack thereof) are inherently superior to my beliefs.

The other fault that I find with even the "moderate and rational" otherkins/therians is that you two (Zach and Random) have both stated that this is either something "you are or something you aren't" and that it is "unchangeable" (see footnote #1). These statements differ drastically with any understanding of spirituality.

Not particularly.

Spirituality is something that one is in no way instilled with from birth.

There are several cultures where someone is born into spirituality.  Some native cultures consider witch doctors and shamans to be born, not made.  The idea of someone being born with a different spirit predates otherkin and therianthropy by thousands of years, no doubt.

Especially since some beliefs about reincarnation believe that the distinction between an animal soul and a human soul is non-existent -- huamns reincarnate into cows reincarnate into humans.  Otherkin and therianthropy did not invent this.
 

According to you I just can't become a rabbit-kin.

And according to the Torah, no one can just become an Israelite.  You have to be born one.

At this point, you're not saying that these things are spiritual, but they're an intrinsic part of yourself that you are projecting onto spirituality. A part of yourself so intrinsic it can't be changed or altered. For clarity, I see religion and spirituality as the same.

First of all, seeing religion and spirituality as the same is a bit incorrect.  They are two different things... of sort.  Religion tends to be organized spirituality + dogma, whereas spirituality is just that, spirituality.

The other dangerous thing with this "born this way" argument is that it legitimizes the very claims that you are trying to distance from otherkin/theriantropy. Saying that there is a legitimate difference that one is born with legitimizes the claims of those nutters seeking "species reassignment surgery."

Everything legitimizes some nutter.  If we have to censor ourselves because some nutter might take it the wrong way, then no one can literally say anything on the internet.  I live for myself.  I can't base my life around what some people might find offensive, or might take off with to some absurd, moon-logic conclusion that doesn't make sense.

Even the very lack of ideas can encourage nutters.  Atheist fundies exist.  Should atheism be "censored" because it "might encourage the nutters?"  NO!  That would be stupid!

Saying that this difference exists actually puts those nuts on par with GID.

And I feel it doesn't.

For one thing, it's physically impossible for them to have the brain of an animal.  Biology doesn't work that way.  The only reason it's possible for GID is because having a male or female or intersex or nonsex brain is actually biologically possible for humans.  Human brains don't spontaneously become animal brains.

For another, if they actually had animal brains, they wouldn't be blogging about how terrible their lives are and how they are oppressed and whatever.

Who is anyone else, especially one who doesn't feel these "soul-struggles" and "otherkin struggles," to deny them their claims? Even saying it is a "soul" thing is not much different as "hey, I just want to transition because I have a woman's soul" is the first thing that comes to mind.

People who understand even the basics of biology, that's who.

Identity comes from somewhere, saying that some separate identity comes from the soul is only moving it out of where it really comes from (the brain). Not to mention the difference between this identity coming from the brain or soul is superfluous if not non-existant.

I disagree.

Furthermore, I would like to point out that the people I criticized actually believe it's a brain thing.  And that's dangerous.

The second reason I find this intrinsic-ness dangerous is that in legitimizing the claims of these nuts, you just reaffirm their delusions and could very well guide them away from getting the mental help they deserve. This is a perfect example of benign nonsense (you and Random) fueling the dangerous nonsense (nuts on tumblr). You can't say "we're born different" or "we can't help it" and then act like those idiots on tumblr are just getting such nonsense from thin air.

And if they weren't otherkin, they would be claiming to be transculture, or transrace, or whatever.  These are people who are looking for something, anything, that makes them special.  Some of them would probably try to jump on the transgendered bandwagon, too, without actually being transgendered.

Not to mention, hey, even the trans* people have their nutters.  Remember "Die, Cis, Scum?"  Yeah.  I don't consider them indicative of trans* people any more than I consider the tumblrkin to be indicative of otherkin.

Fact is, we don't just run around howling and freaking people out.  We're... pretty normal, actually.  My "struggles" amount to "What game do I want to play?"  If anything, realizing that I'm "dragonkin" has brought me peace, not more struggles.

Finally, in an unrelated note, these nuts are doing a great disservice to transpeople in general. First, by making this something you are "born as" all you do is legitimize the bigots that trans-people have faced for the last, well forever.

I don't "legitimize" them anymore than the "die cis scum" people do.

Now, they can take away the "born this way argument" because you are also born this way.
Not only are you born this way, you don't seek to transition to be wolves and dragons, so why would anyone need to transition genders. Second they can assert that their "what's next, people wanting to be animals" claims correct since it literally happened.

People make claims about things as if it was the end of the world.  They did it with gay marriage in regards to interracial marriage, they did it with bestiality in regards to gay marriage... People are stupid.  I can't be held personally responsible for the stupidity of bigots.

Also, otherkins haven't been around "since tribal societies." The earliest known mention of them are from online groups in April 1990.

The word "otherkin" is probably very new.  Research therianthropy, though.

Finally people who would normally be sympathetic to transpeople now see this nonsense and may think otherwise in their acceptance of us. And for what?

I sincerely doubt that anyone who would be sympathetic towards transpeople would be in any way swayed by the mere existence of otherkin.  And if they are, then that is their fault.

First, I let the topic go to be nice. I don't like arguing about other people's beliefs. I walked away literally to spare you a tongue lashing. Returning to that point, other thing about that post is how it says "Soul-struggles as opposed to the fact that one's gender literally does not match one's sex."

I literally wish I could show you just how dumb that statement is.

Okay?

I wish I could explain how my earliest memory is being upset that I couldn't be Snow White for Halloween. I wish I could explain how when I wanted to grow my hair long as a 6 year old, my parents beat me and physically held me down while cutting my hair. Not to mention how traumatic that was. I wish you could know how terrible it is to repress yourself for almost 20 years, jumping through hoops just to make others happy. I wish I could explain getting envious to the point of crying of other women as they developed. I wish you could know the fear of seeing secondary sex characteristics develop before your eyes and wishing more than anything they would stop. I would like you to see how I cut myself at 13-15 just trying to control some of the pain I was feeling. I wish you could see me and how for the better part of the last decade I was high or drunk more often then I could explain just trying to forget my gender if not OD. I wish you could see how scared I was when I finally did come out to someone, how I was crying tears of fear that they would never speak to me again. I wish you could experience these things, because you can't imagine how much it sucks until you do.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what you just said.

That being said, I am aware that the struggles trans people face is unimaginable.  Even as a gay man, what I have to face isn't nearly what you have to face.  You have it bad from all sides of the fence.

I wish I could explain to you just how much I want to see transphobia end.  I wish I could explain to you just how much I want to see transphobia stop in the gay community, the furry community, the brony community, ALL communities.  The trans movement has always been near and dear to my heart, more near and dear than the gay movement even.

I'm an ally.  I don't expect any cookies for it.  I don't even expect any special recognition.  I just want to see people stop being stupid about trans* issues and start being more accepting.

I may not know what it is like to be trans*.  And I never will.  And I'm sorry that I can't.

I doubt therian/otherkin groups have nearly the same suicide rate (30%) that transpeople do.

I doubt it, too.

I'm literally in tears right now because when you say things like "soul-struggles as opposed to gender struggles" it trivializes just how horrible my (and others) experiences are.

I'm sorry that it came across as trivializing.  I was trying to do the opposite.  Show just how different the two were, how they can't be compared, and how "soul struggles" don't amount anywhere close to the level of "gender struggles."

And for what, why does trivialization take place? I honestly don't know. My best guess is so you can be like those pagan kids in High School and rebel against Christianity.

This is a low blow on several levels, Queen.

First of all, I have never tried to trivialize Trans struggles.  And it feels here like you're accusing me of doing so just to feel special about myself.  Second of all, pagan kids in Christian families are at risk of many levels of abuse.  Maybe not quite the abuse you went through.

To me, it feels like you're, right now, trivializing the struggles that pagan kids go through, dismissing it as a "counter culture" reaction.  Nevermind that many of these kids could end up in the street, homeless, or worse simply because of their paganism.

There was one thing you said that was correct. There is a differences between gender struggles and soul struggles. One is real, the other isn't

And that's your worldview.  And that's fine that you don't believe it's a real issue.  Because honestly, it's not on the same level as trans*, like I've repeatedly said.

If you want to make this spiritual, then make it spiritual. Stop saying it's something you're "born as" or "something you can't change." Admit it's just meditation in your basement or having a spirit animal. Admit that anyone can be an otherkin/therian. And for the love of God, don't ever say "otherkin-struggles" again. When you say "I can't change who I am" and "If you have to ask, you aren't one" then you two have taken it out of the range of spiritual, not me.

I'm sorry, Queen.  But I cannot lie about who I am.  Nor will I change myself just because someone on the internet is offended.

But the fact of the matter is, trans* don't have a monopoly on "born this way."  Homo/bi/hetero/asexuals have that claim, too, as do some shamans, Jews, and people who believe in reincarnation.

The fact of the matter is, I'm not against you.  Me, Random, a lot of people here are on your side.  We're tired of otherkin who trivialize trans* struggles by trying to appropriate them.  And quite frankly, I don't appreciate being lumped in with the people who do, because I have explicitly spoken out against it.  That is why I said "soul struggles as opposed to gender struggles."  Because they two are nowhere close to each other.  The core of what I said agrees with what you said.

And I am sorry that a facet of my being is offensive to you.  But I'm also sorry to say this, but you don't have the right to be not offended.  And I am not going to accept blame for something that is not my fault.  And I don't expect Random to, either.

In short, I want to say this:

Queen, we are not enemies.  I was wrong to wait so long to reply to you.  This is an issue we will probably have to agree to disagree on, because we may never come to an amicable conclusion on this.  However, in light of recent events, I want to say that I haven't given you the respect you deserve.

You have been rather antagonistic lately, but I would be remiss in pointing out my own antagonism at times.  I want to put the past behind us.  I want us to be friends who simply disagree on this issue.  Do you think that would be possible?

[QueenofHearts]

So to use this as a way to say that I am saying that I have the "mind of a dragon" is disingenous at best.

Except I'm not claiming I have an animal's brain (especially an animal that exists only in mythology.)  This is the problem I have with your previous conclusion -- it makes people claim things they aren't claiming.

You've missed the point. My point with regards to this isn't to put words into your mouth but to say that the difference between "I have the brain of a llama" and "I have the spirit of a llama" is an excuse. A goal post shift. There is no difference. Identity comes from somewhere and saying there is an unchangeable difference legitimizes the nuts you're trying to distance yourself from. Especially if you say you're born this way and unable to change it. Heck, the minute you say you can't change something it implies that is the way your brain is structured. Even with spirit, they would just say "identity comes from spirit" and stick to their batshittery as my link points out. All the brain-spirit thing is is a giant goal post shift to keep this illusion alive, because you guys have said that people just can't become otherkin nor can they change their animal-identity. This is the part legitimizes those wanting to "transition species."

Second, if it can't be helped which spirit you're born with, why do all the otherkins/therians end up with romantic animals. Just from what we have to my knowledge, a couple dragons, a couple wolves, a dog, all noble animals, except the dragons who are not real but viewed as nobility to some cultures. If it were something you couldn't help, it should be a bit more random and we'd see a lot more diversity. If it were a random thing you're born as, then IDK, wouldn't we see more botfly-kin or tick-kin or latrine fly-kin, or dung beetle-kin. Those individuals shouldn't be able to help their identity...

Some native cultures consider witch doctors and shamans to be born, not made.

And according to the Torah, no one can just become an Israelite.  You have to be born one.

Two problems with these examples.

1. We can all look at the person making these claims and recognize their claims as legitimate based on their birth. We can tell them apart as children, newborns even, and know that they will be legitimate if they choose to follow said beliefs. This isn't an identity thing, it's a cultural thing. Their culture recognizes them as legitimate, from the womb to the tomb. Their culture then indoctrinates them into their beliefs. This differs drastically from otherkins as we can't look at a baby and say "therian." If we remove these Israelites and Shamans from their families at birth, they will not grow up holding their ancestors' beliefs.

2. The Shaman and the Israelite can abandon their beliefs at any time. So if these are apt metaphors, you should be able to abandon it too and hence it isn't something you "just can't change."

Especially since some beliefs about reincarnation believe that the distinction between an animal soul and a human soul is non-existent -- huamns reincarnate into cows reincarnate into humans.  Otherkin and therianthropy did not invent this.

Just because you believe in reincarnation does not make it true. Nor does it mean that someone is born automatically believing in reincarnation. Nor does that mean that opinions on reincarnation can not be changed or given up. These all drastically differ from what you're saying about otherkinism.

First of all, seeing religion and spirituality as the same is a bit incorrect.  They are two different things... of sort.  Religion tends to be organized spirituality + dogma, whereas spirituality is just that, spirituality.

I'm an atheist. To me, it's all nonsense and irrationality. Be it nonsense in the church surrounded by others or nonsense in your basement pretending to be a gerenuk. I file them both under spiritual beliefs. Second, that is an odd definition of spirituality. If you can't define it yourself, why should I view spirituality as any different than religion?

That said, I do respect anothers right to practice their faith without my criticism. I keep opinions to myself. I sure as heck did about this thread in all it's offensive "born this way" nonsense until you made that "diplomatic" post which you admit was geared towards me.

Everything legitimizes some nutter.

Again, I think you miss my point. I'm not saying "otherkins legitimize these crazy types by virtue of being otherkins" but "this trait about benign otherkins (that they're born that way) legitimizes the crazy otherkins." If being a therian were a spiritual thing, you wouldn't be born with it nor would it be permanent. That is the inconsistancy in your beliefs. I would have no problem with it being spiritual because religious beliefs are none of my business. But even your interpretation of it is not spiritual and it is affirming the crazy types that you try to distance yourself from and that harm acceptence of trans people.

I see this benign stuff you and Random doing as fueling the dangerous stuff from tumblr. It wouldn't be legitimizing, it would be the opposite, to tell them "it's spiritual, anyone can be this, we can convert to any other beliefs, we're not special." If the crazies are forced to admit it's spiritual and changable, they can no longer appropriate the trans experience and tailor it to their imagination. These crazy types are the reason I have a problem with the whole group because of the damage they do to transpeople. Finally, I lump everyone into the group because I haven't seen one otherkin/therian in these groups actually try to make it spiritual.

Again, if it were truly spiritual, then it wouldn't legitimize the nuts and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

To make it spiritual, all you need to do is admit that you're not born that way, your "animal identity" is not permanent, and anyone can practice this. That I can just as easily become a Zora-kin tomorrow by meditating and pretending to be one, or following their principles in the course of my day to day life and using them as a spirit guide. I think these aspects of it, that you are or you aren't, just reek of "speshul snowflaek syndrome."

And if they weren't otherkin, they would be claiming to be transculture, or transrace, or whatever.  These are people who are looking for something, anything, that makes them special.  Some of them would probably try to jump on the transgendered bandwagon, too, without actually being transgendered.

This whole thing ignored my point about how benign nonsense (such as you and Random saying "you are or you aren't) fuels dangerous nonsense and guides those who need help away from seeking or utilizing it.

Second, I have just as much a problem with the rest of the trans-appropriation crowd.

And those jumping on the trans bandwagon would quickly jump off. Transitioning isn't something you do on a whim or because there is nothing interesting to watch on TV. It requires a lot of work, effort, money, and time. There is a notable goal to transition; to live as the person you are. There is no notable goal to being an otherkin. It's a lot of talk and self-affirmation of identity, as a link a bit later addresses. People would quickly begin to have doubts about you being trans if you just sat around continuing to live as your birth gender. The attention would quickly dissipate.

My "struggles" amount to "What game do I want to play?"  If anything, realizing that I'm "dragonkin" has brought me peace, not more struggles.

That doesn't sound like a struggle, or even a spiritual thing. It sounds more like a preference... Do you think that maybe this isn't something "you're born as" and instead you just happen to hold a preference for dragons and certain character classes? I think this would explain Vormir's recent post too. I have a preference for chilling with Zoras in Zelda games and swimming through Great Bay as Mikau, so am I Zora-kin?

And if I am, I'm not one of those skanky Hylian Zoras running around all nekkid, but one of them classy, Termina Zoras. Cause I'm a fuckin lady. Lulu 4 lyfe yo! (random sidenote, just ignore).

People make claims about things as if it was the end of the world.  They did it with gay marriage in regards to interracial marriage, they did it with bestiality in regards to gay marriage... People are stupid.  I can't be held personally responsible for the stupidity of bigots.

I sincerely doubt that anyone who would be sympathetic towards transpeople would be in any way swayed by the mere existence of otherkin.  And if they are, then that is their fault.

I don't believe that this water juggling act is worth playing into the narrative of transphobes. Especially when one transwoman parsed through stories about herself (she had a role in bringing SRS inclusion to Brown University's health insurance program) and found the main two arguments against it were;

1. It's free and that will motive students to "want" it.
2. It's cosmetic and that's unfair to students who don't identify with their bodies. Who want to transition and be animals and stuff.

I repeat, I don't think playing into that narrative, or legitimizing those that do, is worth lying about  being "born this way," or "unable to help it," or "theriantropy being permanent."

The word "otherkin" is probably very new.  Research therianthropy, though.

A bit older. 1915, still a few thousand years removed from tribal societies.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what you just said.

I mentioned that because THAT is what it means to be born a certain way. To have something so fundamental, so core to your being that you can't change it. To have *actual* struggles related to trying to change who you are before coming out and trying to be accepted by society and shunned in the process. Hardships which I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy, difficulties that I am happy more than 99% of people will never have to deal with. Saying "otherkin stuggles" is outright disrespectful and trivializing to groups with real struggles when your "struggles" amount to which character you'll pick for your next D&D session.

You have been rather antagonistic lately

Antagonistic? Unless having a different opinion on this otherkin stuff is "antagonistic," I fail to understand what you're talking about.

Also after the recent kerfuck in which my reputation was unnecessarily and unfarily trashed, the kerfuck everyone wants to just brush under the rug and pretend never happened, is this really appropriate to say?

Being transgendered is sort of similar, but its really not the same. The differences are that being transgender is pervasive; it affects almost every aspect of your life, all of the time. Being a furry or therian is something pretty much entirely inside you, that you can choose if or when to bring out to share with others. Also, a transgendered person has the potential to have surgery or hormone therapy and such to possibly change their physical gender, a furry or a therian does not. A furry wants to be a different species. A therian has a part of them that is a different species. A transgendered person IS a different gender.

Vormir, would you mind clarifying the bolded part?

[Distind]

Gotta say, this is why I just run with the 'Totem animal' angle and file it under religion.

[Igor]

Okay, I've left this for a long time in the hopes that we can all (myself included) approach this somewhat more calmly. Now, I don't think I'm going to change any minds here, frankly that's not the point of this thread. I'm just here to explain my perspective on things and take questions. Now, I could be completely wrong here, but it seems to me that the thing that seems to bother you most, Queen, is the perceived exclusiveness of therianthropy/otherkin, in the "You are or you aren't" thing. I think in my earlier posts I worded it kind of badly. To clarify, part of the belief itself is that therianthropy isn't something you can just wake up one day and decide "that sounds cool, I think that's what I want to be", and the "you are or you aren't" attitude is largely a response to 14-year-olds on WereSpace or such who are jumping on the bandwagon as the fad of the week. I think most therians will back me up when I say that it's a whole process of self-discovery on a much deeper level than "that's cool, I'm an [ x ] now." This process, of course, is different for everyone.
 
Now, here's where I have some ideas which differ somewhat from the more common definitions (though we do have a saying - ask 10 therians to define it and you'll get 11 answers. This is my answer # 11)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtYaPycpPPs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtYaPycpPPs</a>
 
I had a hypothesis, I don't know if I can call it a theory ot not. To quote from a post I made in a group I'm part of: "I was thinking that there's a possibility that therianthropy isn't nearly as exclusive as it's made out to be. There's a possibility that everyone actually has a theriotype, but not everyone actually ever discovers it (or cares to). The idea being that the line between therians and nontherians is more accurately the line between the awere and the not-awere (to use an awful pun). I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, or how valid an interpretation it is, I just thought I'd put it out there."
 
Also once again, I do try to combat the more genuinely harmful comments made by tumblrkin when I can, because we are most certainly not a super-oppressed group who has any kind of serious struggle apart from that of being taken seriously. Of course that makes the tumblrkin themselves who are the ones causing the problems. Well, them and a few asshole documentary filmmakers and CSI scriptwriters. I'm very critical of my own subculture sometimes. This brings me to another point, while I don't expect people to believe what I do, because that's unreasonable, one of the things that I'm trying to get across here is that I am being completely serious about this. This is a very important part of who I am. I'm not joking ot trolling or trying to anger or upset anyone, and if I've inadvertently done any of that, I'm sorry. I fully expect people to dismiss this, I know everyone has a different threshold of what they're willing to accept, I'm just trying to point out how my views aren't really any crazier than the average religion. I mean, "I'm a wolf on some nonphysical level" is a lot less to take in than "Some giant bearded man made the Earth, populated it, decided he didn't like the people and wanted to kill them all in a flood, made up a bunch of insane rules for the survivors, and manifested himself as his son as a man to go down and be murdered by some of the people which somehow saved the rest of them from eternal damnation, also there were giants and magic and it was all very metal."
 
I would also argue that whatever claims I make about myself are only really about me. I'm not telling anyone else what to believe, how to act, how to dress, what to eat, or the like, I'm only saying how I do. Anyways, that's enough rambling for now, I may have done more harm than good, but eh. I've needed to say something for a while now.

tl;dr I'm still crazy. Also quite tired. It's not my intention to appropriate and I try extremely hard not to.