Author Topic: Best Political Cartoons  (Read 1644048 times)

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4635 on: November 01, 2014, 01:43:31 am »
So Canadians aren't capable of nationalism? I mean, I admit that I could be wrong. I have no idea who drew that one and could be a tribute, if a shitty one that focuses on the "soldiers are heroes" narrative over the tragedy of the guy's death, but if the artist is Canadian, then it comes off entirely as typical right-wing military glorification.

Here's his site, I'll let you judge for yourself:

http://neasecartoons.com/

(And he does live in Oakville.)

He seems fairly centrist to me.  Then again, maybe things are different in Canada.

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4636 on: November 01, 2014, 01:46:55 am »
Well, I have no idea what to make of that. Likely because I have no context for them due to being in the states. However, while I admit that I'm most likely wrong about the purpose of the comic, I do think it does focus on the "soldiers are heroes" thing over the actual tragedy, which is an issue Americans have as well, thus the sarcastic knee-jerk.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4637 on: November 01, 2014, 02:04:14 am »
Well, I have no idea what to make of that. Likely because I have no context for them due to being in the states. However, while I admit that I'm most likely wrong about the purpose of the comic, I do think it does focus on the "soldiers are heroes" thing over the actual tragedy, which is an issue Americans have as well, thus the sarcastic knee-jerk.

Yes, it does focus on that, but keep in mind that the Germans, who in WWI had troops that they called stormtroopers, gave the same name to Canadian troops.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4638 on: November 01, 2014, 08:49:50 am »
The problem is less with the comic itself, and more with the fact that we have a right wing douche canoe in power at the moment who thinks the way to solve problems is with violence and draconian laws and would quite happily use this incident as a Canadian 9/11 if he could.

There was a time when we could stand on a line in the sand between the Arabs and the Western powers and keep them from killing each other, and we were probably the only country in the world that could have pulled it off.

Now we just tag along with the big players with our third rate military and pretend that sneaking in to deliver a kick during the beat down is a meaningful contribution.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4639 on: November 01, 2014, 09:46:54 am »

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4640 on: November 02, 2014, 11:40:50 am »
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4641 on: November 02, 2014, 12:25:49 pm »
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All of the above interpreted Marx's theory and adapted it to their specific societies and goals so they indeed are communists in that sense. On the other hand, claiming that that's all communism is is just ignorant. None of the systems those people built were the kind of communism Marx originally envisioned. What really fucking annoys me is: "my specific, perfect, entirely infalliable..."

In this case sarcasm is a dishonest way to attack the argument and can be used against any ideology that has any kind of flaws and has several interpretations - in other words, pretty much all of them. "Yeah, crony capitalism sucks but my specific, perfect, entirely infallible brand of capitalism has never been tried!"

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4642 on: November 02, 2014, 12:30:15 pm »
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All of the above interpreted Marx's theory and adapted it to their specific societies and goals so they indeed are communists in that sense. On the other hand, claiming that that's all communism is is just ignorant. None of the systems those people built were the kind of communism Marx originally envisioned. What really fucking annoys me is: "my specific, perfect, entirely infalliable..."

In this case sarcasm is a dishonest way to attack the argument and can be used against any ideology that has any kind of flaws and has several interpretations - in other words, pretty much all of them. "Yeah, crony capitalism sucks but my specific, perfect, entirely infallible brand of capitalism has never been tried!"

You know, there's a reason Marx's vision has never been tried: it's completely unworkable in the real world.  And communism has failed every single time it was tried.



I'd say that pretty much sums up modern communists.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 12:33:19 pm by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4643 on: November 02, 2014, 12:37:38 pm »
Actually... no.  Communism DOES work.  It just only works in exceedingly small scale.  The studies I've read denote that after about 100 people in a space, it tends to fall apart.  Below that? Yeah, it works.  Not perfectly, because there are sociopaths out there, but it does work.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4644 on: November 02, 2014, 12:38:37 pm »
Actually... no.  Communism DOES work.  It just only works in exceedingly small scale.  The studies I've read denote that after about 100 people in a space, it tends to fall apart.  Below that? Yeah, it works.  Not perfectly, because there are sociopaths out there, but it does work.

I was talking about on a national scale.  Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4645 on: November 02, 2014, 12:38:57 pm »
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All of the above interpreted Marx's theory and adapted it to their specific societies and goals so they indeed are communists in that sense. On the other hand, claiming that that's all communism is is just ignorant. None of the systems those people built were the kind of communism Marx originally envisioned. What really fucking annoys me is: "my specific, perfect, entirely infalliable..."

In this case sarcasm is a dishonest way to attack the argument and can be used against any ideology that has any kind of flaws and has several interpretations - in other words, pretty much all of them. "Yeah, crony capitalism sucks but my specific, perfect, entirely infallible brand of capitalism has never been tried!"

I've noticed the depressing trend (coming from progressives rather than neoliberals this time around) of saying, "We need to get rid of this crony capitalism so that true capitalism will fix our economic problems."

No. Beyond the obvious no-true-scotsman fallacy, just no.

Communists had to own up to the fact that the highly-flawed, authoritarian implementations of real-world communism are, in fact, communism. We need to ditch the "crony capitalism" phrase; if you're willing to say we live in a capitalist economy, you should also own up to the fact that cronyism is a natural outgrowth of the tenets of capitalism.

You know, there's a reason Marx's vision has never been tried: it's completely unworkable in the real world.  And communism has failed every single time it was tried.

See, this is the kind of double-standard I'm talking about; motivated by little more than petty nationalism. What metric are you using to say communism has failed? China seems to be doing pretty well right now. What metric are you using to say capitalism is successful? The United States has what could generously be called a mixed economy and we have several command-economy structures in place to regulate the periodic failures of unrestrained capitalism.

Get your definitions straight before claiming either economic system has "failed".
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Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4646 on: November 02, 2014, 12:40:33 pm »
Oh yeah, nationally speaking, Communism doesn't work.  Humanity just isn't wired to work that way.  It's one of those 'sounds good on paper' things, but in practice, yeah, no, there's too many assholes out there.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4647 on: November 02, 2014, 12:44:11 pm »
Oh yeah, nationally speaking, Communism doesn't work.  Humanity just isn't wired to work that way.  It's one of those 'sounds good on paper' things, but in practice, yeah, no, there's too many assholes out there.

Quick question: do you think capitalism works on a national scale? I'm tempted to argue your point, but I don't want to put words in your mouth.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4648 on: November 02, 2014, 12:45:50 pm »
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All of the above interpreted Marx's theory and adapted it to their specific societies and goals so they indeed are communists in that sense. On the other hand, claiming that that's all communism is is just ignorant. None of the systems those people built were the kind of communism Marx originally envisioned. What really fucking annoys me is: "my specific, perfect, entirely infalliable..."

In this case sarcasm is a dishonest way to attack the argument and can be used against any ideology that has any kind of flaws and has several interpretations - in other words, pretty much all of them. "Yeah, crony capitalism sucks but my specific, perfect, entirely infallible brand of capitalism has never been tried!"

I've noticed the depressing trend (coming from progressives rather than neoliberals this time around) of saying, "We need to get rid of this crony capitalism so that true capitalism will fix our economic problems."

No. Beyond the obvious no-true-scotsman fallacy, just no.

Communists had to own up to the fact that the highly-flawed, authoritarian implementations of real-world communism are, in fact, communism. We need to ditch the "crony capitalism" phrase; if you're willing to say we live in a capitalist economy, you should also own up to the fact that cronyism is a natural outgrowth of the tenets of capitalism.

A natural outgrowth, yes, but more moderate capitalism has a far, far better track record than any form of communism in just about every way.

You know, there's a reason Marx's vision has never been tried: it's completely unworkable in the real world.  And communism has failed every single time it was tried.

See, this is the kind of double-standard I'm talking about; motivated by little more than petty nationalism. What metric are you using to say communism has failed? China seems to be doing pretty well right now. What metric are you using to say capitalism is successful? The United States has what could generously be called a mixed economy and we have several command-economy structures in place to regulate the periodic failures of unrestrained capitalism.

Get your definitions straight before claiming either economic system has "failed".

Chinese communism went out with Deng Xiaoping.  These days, China's about as "communist" as Imperial Germany.

And I have never advocated unrestrained capitalism, because that leads to massive problems.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #4649 on: November 02, 2014, 12:49:27 pm »
A natural outgrowth, yes, but more moderate capitalism has a far, far better track record than any form of communism in just about every way.

"more moderate capitalism" is a weasel word. Please enlighten me as to which parts of "more moderate capitalism" involve socialist functions (for example, the Social Security program in the United States) or command-economy functions (military expenditures, public works, etc.)

Chinese communism went out with Deng Xiaoping.  These days, China's about as "communist" as Imperial Germany.

But isn't that just more moderate communism?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 12:52:00 pm by Ironchew »
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.