Sex Offender Registries and Further Punishment: The Thread

[gomer21xx]

I think I'm one of those weirdos that is more prone to argue against the death penalty, but not because of human error or corruption (though, those do happen and are good reasons against it), but because I think it's too goddamn swift of a punishment!

If it's proven that some guy rapes a small child, then I say lock his ass in a cell and drive him bonkers.  Torture his ass!  "Cruel and unusual punishment", you say?  Raping children is cruel and unusual!  I wanna see him suffer!

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

If it's proven that some guy rapes a small child, then I say lock his ass in a cell and drive him bonkers.  Torture his ass!  "Cruel and unusual punishment", you say?  Raping children is cruel and unusual!  I wanna see him suffer!

And that's why the Eighth Amendment exists

[chitoryu12]

I think I'm one of those weirdos that is more prone to argue against the death penalty, but not because of human error or corruption (though, those do happen and are good reasons against it), but because I think it's too goddamn swift of a punishment!

If it's proven that some guy rapes a small child, then I say lock his ass in a cell and drive him bonkers.  Torture his ass!  "Cruel and unusual punishment", you say?  Raping children is cruel and unusual!  I wanna see him suffer!

Depending on what they did, they're not really going to suffer. For the rest of their life, at a minimum, they have all of their food and health needs taken care of without having to lift a finger. Life in prison's hard, but the state takes care of them. If they did bad enough to be booted into solitary confinement and are only let out for 1 hour of the day, they're safe from any other inmates who may want to abuse them and they still get things like books and music players given to them (so it's not just sitting in a dark cell and being miserable until they hang themselves with their bedsheets).

Also, the whole "I want them to suffer!" bit is another reason why emotional knee jerks aren't allowed in lawmaking.

[syaoranvee]

If it's proven that some guy rapes a small child, then I say lock his ass in a cell and drive him bonkers.  Torture his ass!  "Cruel and unusual punishment", you say?  Raping children is cruel and unusual!  I wanna see him suffer!

And that's why the Eighth Amendment exists

I always found it ironic when people champion how America is against cruel and unusual punishment when we know the government has some pretty fucked up tests to people in secrecy and we pardoned alot of people from WW2 on the medical side of things due to gathering excellent data on what they did to people against their will (ie. freezing, phosgene gas, etc).

Not to mention the fucked up shit that tends to pop up out of Guantanamo Bay from time to time.

[R. U. Sirius]

http://congress-courts-legislation.blogspot.com/2013/03/patty-wetterling-questions-sex-offender.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CongressCourtsAndNationalLegislationccl+%28Congress%2C+Courts+and+National+Legislation+%28CCL%29%29

A woman whose son was abducted in 1989 and has yet to be found questions the efficacy of current sex-offender laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Wetterling

I know that pointing up who a person is in an argument is incredibly weak from a logical standpoint, but I think it is still worth thinking about that this would be the LAST person most would expect to push for this type of change.

[RavynousHunter]

I think I'm one of those weirdos that is more prone to argue against the death penalty, but not because of human error or corruption (though, those do happen and are good reasons against it), but because I think it's too goddamn swift of a punishment!

If it's proven that some guy rapes a small child, then I say lock his ass in a cell and drive him bonkers.  Torture his ass!  "Cruel and unusual punishment", you say?  Raping children is cruel and unusual!  I wanna see him suffer!

Depending on what they did, they're not really going to suffer. For the rest of their life, at a minimum, they have all of their food and health needs taken care of without having to lift a finger. Life in prison's hard, but the state takes care of them. If they did bad enough to be booted into solitary confinement and are only let out for 1 hour of the day, they're safe from any other inmates who may want to abuse them and they still get things like books and music players given to them (so it's not just sitting in a dark cell and being miserable until they hang themselves with their bedsheets).

Also, the whole "I want them to suffer!" bit is another reason why emotional knee jerks aren't allowed in lawmaking.

Uhh, Chitoryu, solitary isn't a bed of fucking roses.  Yeah, you'd be safe from everyone else, but isolation will REALLY fuck with your mind in horrible ways.  I spent the first six months in the house in which I currently live almost completely alone.  My mom and brother both worked, and their schedules were such that I didn't usually wake in time to talk to them, and went to bed before they got home.  My dad spent almost all his time at my aunt's house down the road, and we had no internet, so I was pretty much completely cut off from people for half a year.

Wanna know what that did to me?  It nearly drove me fucking insane in ways which I'm still recovering from, nearly 5 years later.  Humans are social creatures, we by and large need other humans, or we lose our god damned minds.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

I think I'm one of those weirdos that is more prone to argue against the death penalty, but not because of human error or corruption (though, those do happen and are good reasons against it), but because I think it's too goddamn swift of a punishment!

If it's proven that some guy rapes a small child, then I say lock his ass in a cell and drive him bonkers.  Torture his ass!  "Cruel and unusual punishment", you say?  Raping children is cruel and unusual!  I wanna see him suffer!

Depending on what they did, they're not really going to suffer. For the rest of their life, at a minimum, they have all of their food and health needs taken care of without having to lift a finger. Life in prison's hard, but the state takes care of them. If they did bad enough to be booted into solitary confinement and are only let out for 1 hour of the day, they're safe from any other inmates who may want to abuse them and they still get things like books and music players given to them (so it's not just sitting in a dark cell and being miserable until they hang themselves with their bedsheets).

Also, the whole "I want them to suffer!" bit is another reason why emotional knee jerks aren't allowed in lawmaking.

Uhh, Chitoryu, solitary isn't a bed of fucking roses.  Yeah, you'd be safe from everyone else, but isolation will REALLY fuck with your mind in horrible ways.  I spent the first six months in the house in which I currently live almost completely alone.  My mom and brother both worked, and their schedules were such that I didn't usually wake in time to talk to them, and went to bed before they got home.  My dad spent almost all his time at my aunt's house down the road, and we had no internet, so I was pretty much completely cut off from people for half a year.

Wanna know what that did to me?  It nearly drove me fucking insane in ways which I'm still recovering from, nearly 5 years later.  Humans are social creatures, we by and large need other humans, or we lose our god damned minds.

Here's an excellent article on solitary confinement that appeared in Rolling Stone. I tried to find a free copy and this scan is the best I could do, but it's quite easy to read at least. Here's a piece on the psychological effects of extreme isolation from Mother Jones.

[rookie]

Depending on what they did, they're not really going to suffer. For the rest of their life, at a minimum, they have all of their food and health needs taken care of without having to lift a finger. Life in prison's hard, but the state takes care of them. If they did bad enough to be booted into solitary confinement and are only let out for 1 hour of the day, they're safe from any other inmates who may want to abuse them and they still get things like books and music players given to them (so it's not just sitting in a dark cell and being miserable until they hang themselves with their bedsheets).

I read that and have to ask you this. It sounds like you're saying prison is kind of a sweet gig, what with the state taking care of you and all. So am I misreading that?

[chitoryu12]

Depending on what they did, they're not really going to suffer. For the rest of their life, at a minimum, they have all of their food and health needs taken care of without having to lift a finger. Life in prison's hard, but the state takes care of them. If they did bad enough to be booted into solitary confinement and are only let out for 1 hour of the day, they're safe from any other inmates who may want to abuse them and they still get things like books and music players given to them (so it's not just sitting in a dark cell and being miserable until they hang themselves with their bedsheets).

I read that and have to ask you this. It sounds like you're saying prison is kind of a sweet gig, what with the state taking care of you and all. So am I misreading that?

You're making a strawman of it. Is prison good? Not at all. It can be dangerous if you're among the general population, you're obviously lacking almost all freedom and entertainment, the food is crap, and conditions are uncomfortable.

But it's not a horror story, either. You're always fed and watered and you get full medical care, all without having to work for it. In fact, huge numbers of prisoners end up relapsing and going back to jail because their felony convictions keep them from getting jobs (especially in this tight economy). At least behind bars, they don't starve. And they get free healthcare.

[Auggziliary]

Man this thread makes prison seem kinda decent. Now I'm tempted to kill people.

[chitoryu12]

Man this thread makes prison seem kinda decent. Now I'm tempted to kill people.

Well, be prepared to keep going back. Years on the inside doesn't do good things for them when they get released. The world's probably in a different state (especially if they've spent 10 years or longer behind bars), and nobody except for specific programs and employers will want to hire felons unless they have no choice. I can't find the sources now, but there's been people who have gotten themselves back in jail just because it's easier than being unemployed and potentially homeless.

[rookie]

You're making a strawman of it. Is prison good? Not at all. It can be dangerous if you're among the general population, you're obviously lacking almost all freedom and entertainment, the food is crap, and conditions are uncomfortable.

But it's not a horror story, either. You're always fed and watered and you get full medical care, all without having to work for it. In fact, huge numbers of prisoners end up relapsing and going back to jail because their felony convictions keep them from getting jobs (especially in this tight economy). At least behind bars, they don't starve. And they get free healthcare.

I wasn't doing anything other than asking for clarification. I didn't realize that equals building a strawman. Thanks. Help like that will only make me a better poster here.

[Distind]

Honestly I think a lot of this comes down to what you think the law exists to do.

Protect Victims, punish the guilty or remove/rehabilitate those committing crimes.

I sit in group 1 pretty comfortably, Gomer's sits in group 2 pretty easy, and a lot of people sit in group 3.

Deal with enough people who are scared simply because a person is still out there and you might understand why I don't see any problem with the rare use of the death penalty. I will agree there is overuse now, and I do believe it should sit to a much higher standard of evidence than a standard criminal trial does. But I see no issue with it's use in particularly egregious cases when the subject has willfully rejected any possibility of reform. After all, you're not going to get great results out of the guy who tells the family of his victims to fuck off.

Edit:
Though everyone remember to wrap a bandana around your face, we're jacking this thread!

[R. U. Sirius]

Colorado's tough sex offender laws are supposed to keep predators under tight supervision.

But a series of lawsuits claim that the system is violating even minor offenders' rights to free speech and association, prohibiting contact with family members -- and, in one particularly bizarre case, telling a 62-year-old man that a discussion with a stepdaughter about her pregnancy constitutes unlawful "third party contact with a child."

http://congress-courts-legislation.blogspot.com/2013/03/civil-rights-lawsuits-attack-excesses.html

Can anyone here who supports such "one size fits all" approaches to sex offenses tell me what purpose is served by forcing a woman to remove all pictures of her grandchildren from her house when her husband is convicted of an offense that doesn't involve children? Of calling discussing an adult's pregnancy "unlawful third-party contact with a child"?

For that matter, can anyone here tell me what purpose is served by treating all sex offenders as if they were violent serial pedophiles?

[dpareja]

Colorado's tough sex offender laws are supposed to keep predators under tight supervision.

But a series of lawsuits claim that the system is violating even minor offenders' rights to free speech and association, prohibiting contact with family members -- and, in one particularly bizarre case, telling a 62-year-old man that a discussion with a stepdaughter about her pregnancy constitutes unlawful "third party contact with a child."

http://congress-courts-legislation.blogspot.com/2013/03/civil-rights-lawsuits-attack-excesses.html

Can anyone here who supports such "one size fits all" approaches to sex offenses tell me what purpose is served by forcing a woman to remove all pictures of her grandchildren from her house when her husband is convicted of an offense that doesn't involve children? Of calling discussing an adult's pregnancy "unlawful third-party contact with a child"?

For that matter, can anyone here tell me what purpose is served by treating all sex offenders as if they were violent serial pedophiles?

It makes the politicians look as if they're doing something about those few who are violent serial pedophiles.