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Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: Askold on July 11, 2013, 07:24:03 am

Title: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Askold on July 11, 2013, 07:24:03 am: I have come to the conclusion that the Finnish Minister of interior, Päivi Räsänen from the Christian Democrats party has done more damage to our Lutheran church than any atheist awareness campaign. Every time she opens her mouth there is a huge spike in people leaving the church.

(Some atheists set up a website where you can resign from church easily. So rather than getting the paperwork and filing it just give them your name [Or someone else's name if you are an asshole] and they do all the paperwork for you. They also show stats of how many people are leaving the church.)

One of her latests blunders was last week, admitting in an interview that for her the bible is more important than the Finnish law. More people left the church that day than normally in a month. Later she claimed that her comment was out of context. She helpfully explained that the context was that animals have more protection in Finland than children since when animals are slaughtered it must be done without causing pain but no one dares to speak about how abortion is painful to the baby... And that is why she conciders abortions to be wrong even if Finnish law allows them.

This is not that different from the stuff on the mainpage, but I'm still annoyed when I hear comments like these in Finland.

Anyway, for some reason adding the context did not help her and people are still angry, so she went on to dig a deeper hole for herself...

She specifically explained that she did not encourage people into *shudder* anarchy, or to break the laws, what she meant was that doctors should concider if they can work in a job where the law might require them to do things that against their morals. After all Nazi soldiers were ordered to do horribly immoral things and even if those weren't against the laws of Nazi Germany they should not have obeyed them...

She is going to need more than a shovel if she wants to dig any deeper. And this was the same person who had earlier outraged people with her comments on homosexuals.

The sad thing is that I can't even use "no-true-christian" defense or anything. I just have to face the facts that she is in the same church as I am and many christians agree with her. I don't and neither do the majority of Finnish (Not sure if majority of christians, or even majority of Lutherans though.) Funnily enough the archbishop of Finland is now trying to explain that her stament does not reflect the church's stance on the matter... While the bishop of Turku has claimed that it does. I think we are going to have to divide the church pretty soon because having a bunch of fundies and more reasonable and modern tolerant christians fight over who is representing the church is getting ridiculous.

Here a link on the matter:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/interior_minister_compares_abortion_to_butchery/6727521
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: maanantai on July 11, 2013, 02:41:55 pm: I'm still kind of patiently waiting for the separation of church and state and it sure does look like Päivi does really good job at it. ;D Every time she opens her mouth and speaks her mind: magic.

Oh, and about resigning ones membership from church. One really does need to insert more info than just the name and city in that website and it only works if you're member of the lutheran church or orthodox church. AAAnd the Resignation isn't that hard if done personally either. Just walk in (your Local Register Office) wait for your turn and say you'd like to stop paying the church tax ;) Or that is what I did. I was out in 5 minutes with paper in my hand (signed by me and the lady at the counter) saying that I no longer was member of the church.

Oh and back to Päivi. Silly her. Comparing live and breathing creatures to less than 12 weeks old embryo.

"An abortion-age child is not a numb piece of tissue, rather an individual that can feel pain," she stated.

But but but... it kind of is O_o
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Askold on July 11, 2013, 03:16:38 pm: Yeah, it's way beyond time for us to split the church and state.

But Päivi really does know how to go from bad to worse. First she compares abortion to butchering animals, and when she got a chance to explain herself she compared abortion to the acts of the nazis...
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Captain Jack Harkness on July 11, 2013, 03:57:52 pm: Wait a tit. "Church tax?"
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Askold on July 11, 2013, 04:00:28 pm: Quote from: B-Man on July 11, 2013, 03:57:52 pm
Wait a tit. "Church tax?"
Yeah. Since we have a state church the church is allowed to tax the members and it is taken as a part of your regular taxes.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Dakota Bob on July 11, 2013, 06:20:44 pm: Quote from: B-Man on July 11, 2013, 03:57:52 pm
Wait a tit. "Church tax?"

God owes Mary a lot of Child Support.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: maanantai on July 11, 2013, 09:59:44 pm: Quote from: B-Man on July 11, 2013, 03:57:52 pm
Wait a tit. "Church tax?"

1,00-2,00% of your income depending on where you live to be exact. Any income. And it does not matter if you're minor who by law is not allowed to resign without parents consent, you still pay it.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Witchyjoshy on July 11, 2013, 10:37:29 pm: Well that's bullshit.

And I thought simply being tax exempt in the USA was bad enough, but over there they just outright tax you.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: wrightway on July 11, 2013, 10:42:07 pm: If you can opt out, how does the church still have any tax paying members?
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Askold on July 11, 2013, 11:48:58 pm: Quote from: Brain Fritz on July 11, 2013, 10:42:07 pm
If you can opt out, how does the church still have any tax paying members?
Because many Finnish people are christians and therefore want to be a member of the church. Even if it costs money.

Part of that money does go towards maintenance of graveyards, charity and other usefull stuff, and having a wedding at a church is free so it's not like you don't get anything with the money.

But yeah, it is weird. Also, the church tax can be taken by distraint. If you can't afford to pay it then it will be taken by force by selling your property.

Or, if you are having money trouble you can just leave the Lutheran church. Maybe even join another christian church since it's only the Lutheran church that gets the tax due to being the official religion of our country.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on July 12, 2013, 06:30:17 am: I have a feeling that the church will be finnished soon. ~dodges rotten fruit~
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Askold on July 17, 2013, 11:45:04 am: Just one more update.

Räsänen did a lot to harm the church but in the end her party benefited from this. What basically happened is that a large amount of tolerant people and those who generally seem to think that even gay people are humans and deserve to be treated equally left the church. Meanwhile fundies and homophobes flock to the christian democrat party.

On one hand that party just got more powerful, on the other hand it does mean that the same bigots are now getting concentrated in this party and stop polluting the other parties.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on July 17, 2013, 12:18:22 pm: Look on the bright side, now you can vote for other parties with less bigots.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Valerius on July 17, 2013, 12:28:07 pm: Wouldn't that also mean that the fundies and homophobes won't be splitting their votes as much then?
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on July 17, 2013, 12:29:24 pm: Quote from: Valerius on July 17, 2013, 12:28:07 pm
Wouldn't that also mean that the fundies and homophobes won't be splitting their votes as much then?
Well... fuck.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Valerius on July 17, 2013, 12:40:27 pm: Quote from: PosthumanHeresy on July 17, 2013, 12:29:24 pm
Quote from: Valerius on July 17, 2013, 12:28:07 pm
Wouldn't that also mean that the fundies and homophobes won't be splitting their votes as much then?
Well... fuck.

Well then, here's hoping that even unified into a single party, Finland's fundies aren't numerous enough to form a government.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 17, 2013, 12:41:01 pm: Quote from: askold on July 11, 2013, 07:24:03 am
I have come to the conclusion that the Finnish Minister of interior, Päivi Räsänen from the Christian Democrats party has done more damage to our Lutheran church than any atheist awareness campaign. Every time she opens her mouth there is a huge spike in people leaving the church.

(Some atheists set up a website where you can resign from church easily. So rather than getting the paperwork and filing it just give them your name [Or someone else's name if you are an asshole] and they do all the paperwork for you. They also show stats of how many people are leaving the church.)
Wait, you mean that any Finn is automatically a member and has to specifically opt out should they want no part of it? I have to say, that's a tad fucked.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Damen on July 17, 2013, 01:10:11 pm: Quote from: askold on July 11, 2013, 11:48:58 pm
Quote from: Brain Fritz on July 11, 2013, 10:42:07 pm
If you can opt out, how does the church still have any tax paying members?
Because many Finnish people are christians and therefore want to be a member of the church. Even if it costs money.

Fuck that, I ain't gonna pay to be part of their fucking club.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: Witchyjoshy on July 17, 2013, 02:08:59 pm: Quote from: Damen on July 17, 2013, 01:10:11 pm
Quote from: askold on July 11, 2013, 11:48:58 pm
Quote from: Brain Fritz on July 11, 2013, 10:42:07 pm
If you can opt out, how does the church still have any tax paying members?
Because many Finnish people are christians and therefore want to be a member of the church. Even if it costs money.

Fuck that, I ain't gonna pay to be part of their fucking club.

I don't think you have to since, if I recall correctly, you aren't Finnish :P

Still it sounds terrible, being auto-taxed until you opt out.
Title: Re: Minister Räsänen sticks her foot into her mouth
Post by: maanantai on July 17, 2013, 03:11:46 pm: Quote from: Art Vandelay on July 17, 2013, 12:41:01 pm
Quote from: askold on July 11, 2013, 07:24:03 am
I have come to the conclusion that the Finnish Minister of interior, Päivi Räsänen from the Christian Democrats party has done more damage to our Lutheran church than any atheist awareness campaign. Every time she opens her mouth there is a huge spike in people leaving the church.

(Some atheists set up a website where you can resign from church easily. So rather than getting the paperwork and filing it just give them your name [Or someone else's name if you are an asshole] and they do all the paperwork for you. They also show stats of how many people are leaving the church.)
Wait, you mean that any Finn is automatically a member and has to specifically opt out should they want no part of it? I have to say, that's a tad fucked.

Any Finn whose parents are members of the state church. Or just the other parent and they decide that the kid also joins (at the ripe age of few months). So yeah, the membership is kind of automatic. And even among those who don't believe it's just habit to be member for Really Good Reasons ( ::) ) such as ability to get wed at church, cheaper funerals and of course you have to name that baby of yours too and some people don't know in real life even this day that even though the kids name is usually told to relatives at the babtism that it really isn't name giving event. ::) ::)