FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: wrightway on May 19, 2013, 09:29:38 am
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http://news.yahoo.com/women-sad-angry-over-sale-nonprofit-ohio-home-152229520.html (http://news.yahoo.com/women-sad-angry-over-sale-nonprofit-ohio-home-152229520.html)
I shouldn't be too surprised by this, it is par for the course in Ohio, but what kind of mindset do you need to have to force an abuse shelter closed and refer to the women there as recovering prostitutes?
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Bastards. I hope this story will be retold again when they open that hotel and people decide to boycott it.
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
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And my faith in humanity just went south again...
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
I agree. Spread the word! Don't let them get away with this! I will share this on my Facebook & Tumblr! BASTARDS! DON'T MESS WITH THE GODDESS!
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
I agree. Spread the word! Don't let them get away with this! I will share this on my Facebook & Tumblr! BASTARDS! DON'T MESS WITH THE GODDESS!
I hate to burst both of your bubbles, but this'll all be forgotten in a month or two, even by all of us. Nothing as simple as Facebook and Tumblr posts are going to change that.
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
I agree. Spread the word! Don't let them get away with this! I will share this on my Facebook & Tumblr! BASTARDS! DON'T MESS WITH THE GODDESS!
I hate to burst both of your bubbles, but this'll all be forgotten in a month or two, even by all of us. Nothing as simple as Facebook and Tumblr posts are going to change that.
LIAR! FUCK YOU COCKFACE! WE WILL FIGHT THIS! THE WOMEN WILL WIN! CYNICISM IS FOR THE WEAK! THE GOOD GUYS WILL ALWAYS WIN EVENTUALLY! WE WILL FIGHT!
KARMA IS REAL & UNAVOIDABLE! THE LEGIONS WILL PROTEST & BARRETT WILL BE DEFEATED FOR THE SO-CALLED POWERFUL ARE HELPLESS AGAINST OUTRAGE!
Once more, straight off the deep end...
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
I agree. Spread the word! Don't let them get away with this! I will share this on my Facebook & Tumblr! BASTARDS! DON'T MESS WITH THE GODDESS!
I hate to burst both of your bubbles, but this'll all be forgotten in a month or two, even by all of us. Nothing as simple as Facebook and Tumblr posts are going to change that.
LIAR! FUCK YOU COCKFACE! WE WILL FIGHT THIS! THE WOMEN WILL WIN! CYNICISM IS FOR THE WEAK! THE GOOD GUYS WILL ALWAYS WIN EVENTUALLY! WE WILL FIGHT!
KARMA IS REAL & UNAVOIDABLE! THE LEGIONS WILL PROTEST & BARRETT WILL BE DEFEATED FOR THE SO-CALLED POWERFUL ARE HELPLESS AGAINST OUTRAGE!
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m287/greenlily_11884/gif/tumblr_leczkbyOTI1qa5igx.gif)
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
I agree. Spread the word! Don't let them get away with this! I will share this on my Facebook & Tumblr! BASTARDS! DON'T MESS WITH THE GODDESS!
I hate to burst both of your bubbles, but this'll all be forgotten in a month or two, even by all of us. Nothing as simple as Facebook and Tumblr posts are going to change that.
LIAR! FUCK YOU COCKFACE! WE WILL FIGHT THIS! THE WOMEN WILL WIN! CYNICISM IS FOR THE WEAK! THE GOOD GUYS WILL ALWAYS WIN EVENTUALLY! WE WILL FIGHT!
KARMA IS REAL & UNAVOIDABLE! THE LEGIONS WILL PROTEST & BARRETT WILL BE DEFEATED FOR THE SO-CALLED POWERFUL ARE HELPLESS AGAINST OUTRAGE!
Uh, calm down. Please.
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Chill chicka. The fact of the matter is, unless people constantly and consistently talk about a subject it is quickly forgotten. Most people don't have the dedication to keep this news.
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Sorry about the outburst but I'm not a slave to cynicism! W&S may have won this round but there WILL BE A BOYCOTT!
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W&S may have won this round but there WILL BE A BOYCOTT!
Because their typical clientele are really the type of people to give a shit about this sort of thing, right?
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Spuki you've been told about doing that sort of shit.
Ironbite-seriously you do not help your cause but having outbursts like that.
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Yeah, Spuki, do you realize how irrational you sound?
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
I agree. Spread the word! Don't let them get away with this! I will share this on my Facebook & Tumblr! BASTARDS! DON'T MESS WITH THE GODDESS!
I hate to burst both of your bubbles, but this'll all be forgotten in a month or two, even by all of us. Nothing as simple as Facebook and Tumblr posts are going to change that.
LIAR! FUCK YOU COCKFACE! WE WILL FIGHT THIS! THE WOMEN WILL WIN! CYNICISM IS FOR THE WEAK! THE GOOD GUYS WILL ALWAYS WIN EVENTUALLY! WE WILL FIGHT!
KARMA IS REAL & UNAVOIDABLE! THE LEGIONS WILL PROTEST & BARRETT WILL BE DEFEATED FOR THE SO-CALLED POWERFUL ARE HELPLESS AGAINST OUTRAGE!
Mod-mode ON!
Spuki, I know you apologized for the outburst, but you should really know better than to say things like this. Please keep insults to Flame & Burn, where you can have all the outbursts you want. I am giving you a warning.
Mod-mode OFF!
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I'm not sure I appreciate a company strong-arming their way to land, and I don't appreciate the CEO's words, but...I do find this part interesting...
Under the deal with Western & Southern, the women living at the Anna Louise will stay there until a new building for them is finished, in about two years. It will be located in a shabby neighborhood on a busy street 2 miles north of where they are now. The nearest park is a 1.5-mile walk away, over a freeway.
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This is just plain disturbing... >:(
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Disgusting...simply disgusting. The rich and powerful of our society are nothing but worms and leeches, disgusting bottom feeders who drink the life blood of society.
I only hope these disgusting insects are squashed in my life time.
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What I don't get is how the hell can they force a sale?
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From the article:
Western & Southern executives, whose headquarters sit across a park from the Anna Louise, offered to buy the Anna Louise for $1.8 million several years ago, less than half its value. The Anna Louise declined and won $12.6 million in federal and state tax credits to renovate the home, where some rooms are smaller than 100 square feet and all the women have to share bathrooms and one kitchen.
Days before the renovation was to begin, Western & Southern sued over a zoning issue and a judge ordered an immediate construction halt until the legal fight was resolved. The Anna Louise and its supporters didn't back down, vowing to fight Western & Southern with everything they had — until last week when they inked a deal with the company to sell the home for $4 million.
Leaders at Cincinnati Union Bethel, the nonprofit that runs the Anna Louise, said they sold reluctantly because they couldn't afford to fight any longer.
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Civil law is bullshit. Just puttin it out there.
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Okay, you know what? You see that Tweet button? Click it. Tweet this story. Ask your followers to retweet it. Print the story and show it to your family. And if you're in the area...well, I'm reluctant to say this, but... I think vigilantism is the way to go.
Just grab a gun, and if you see a demolitions expert, kill him shoot the tires on his car.
I agree. Spread the word! Don't let them get away with this! I will share this on my Facebook & Tumblr! BASTARDS! DON'T MESS WITH THE GODDESS!
I hate to burst both of your bubbles, but this'll all be forgotten in a month or two, even by all of us. Nothing as simple as Facebook and Tumblr posts are going to change that.
LIAR! FUCK YOU COCKFACE! WE WILL FIGHT THIS! THE WOMEN WILL WIN! CYNICISM IS FOR THE WEAK! THE GOOD GUYS WILL ALWAYS WIN EVENTUALLY! WE WILL FIGHT!
KARMA IS REAL & UNAVOIDABLE! THE LEGIONS WILL PROTEST & BARRETT WILL BE DEFEATED FOR THE SO-CALLED POWERFUL ARE HELPLESS AGAINST OUTRAGE!
Mod-mode ON!
Spuki, I know you apologized for the outburst, but you should really know better than to say things like this. Please keep insults to Flame & Burn, where you can have all the outbursts you want. I am giving you a warning.
Mod-mode OFF!
I know. I'll remove the inflammatory comments.
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Yeah, Spuki, do you realize how irrational you sound?
What's so irrational about a boycott?
I admit, my tone was insane.
I just am sick of the evil going unabated.
I want GOOD NEWS!
I want the light at the end of the tunnel!
I want you to quit being weak, heed the wisdom of hope, idealism & a fighting spirit!
All of you...CYNICAL FATALISTS.
Is this what has become of the Left?
I spit on your cynicism.
You will affirm "SOMETHING WILL BE DONE. WE WILL FIGHT THIS!"
If not, I will abandon this den of the weak & stupid!
For gods' sake, Spuki, real life isn't a fairy tail where the good knight always vanquishes the evil dragon and saves the pretty princess and marries her.
A working definition of a cynic is a "disappointed idealist". Which applies to several people here, and quite frankly they have good reason to be cynics, and I will support their rights to be cynics on these forums.
Sometimes it gets overbearing, yes, but so does optimism, especially blind optimism.
"Karma" as you state it is a corrupted invention by new age hippies to make themselves feel better when someone does something bad and they keep doing good. Its original use applies to reincarnation, and it is a Hindu belief which does not resemble the modern idea of karma at all. Face it. Good things happen to bad people. And bad things happen to good people. That's life. And while we shouldn't endure it, there's absolutely no reason to shout at people who, quite frankly, have become real life genre savvy about things that happen.
"Better to aim your expectations low and be pleasantly surprised than to aim your expectations high and be disappointed" people say, and these are wise words.
You want good news? Find it yourself. Cynicism isn't weak. And it isn't giving up either. It's just a world view, and it is just as valid as your world view. The sooner you accept that the sooner you will prosper.
Furthermore, don't order people to be optimistic, and don't order people to share your worldview. It is, quite frankly, overstepping your boundaries and is offensive to people.
Now, cool your fucking jets. Next time you get angry, step away from the computer. But I will not allow you to hurl abuse at people on these forums, even if they are people I disagree with from time to time. And I will not allow you to order people to do things just because they share a different world view and you disagree with that.
I say this to help you.
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What I don't get is how the hell can they force a sale?
Although it doesn't appear to be the case here, usually they use Imminent Domain, which for those of you outside the US is when the government forces someone to leave their land. I'm not sure if they have to pay them for it, but they usually do. It's original intent was for when the government needed a particular piece of land for a very good reason, such it being hazardous to the residents and they needed to move somewhere else, or needed by the military as a critical location(like to set up an AA gun near an important factory). It's recently been abused quite a lot for much more frivolous reasons.
A story was posted here a few days back of the UK's equivalent being used for the first time since WWII. Unfortunately it's been used a lot in the US
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Yeah, Spuki, do you realize how irrational you sound?
What's so irrational about a boycott?
I admit, my tone was insane.
I just am sick of the evil going unabated.
I want GOOD NEWS!
I want the light at the end of the tunnel!
I want you to quit being weak, heed the wisdom of hope, idealism & a fighting spirit!
All of you...CYNICAL FATALISTS.
Is this what has become of the Left?
I spit on your cynicism.
You will affirm "SOMETHING WILL BE DONE. WE WILL FIGHT THIS!"
If not, I will abandon this den of the weak & stupid!
For gods' sake, Spuki, real life isn't a fairy tail where the good knight always vanquishes the evil dragon and saves the pretty princess and marries her.
A working definition of a cynic is a "disappointed idealist". Which applies to several people here, and quite frankly they have good reason to be cynics, and I will support their rights to be cynics on these forums.
Sometimes it gets overbearing, yes, but so does optimism, especially blind optimism.
"Karma" as you state it is a corrupted invention by new age hippies to make themselves feel better when someone does something bad and they keep doing good. Its original use applies to reincarnation, and it is a Hindu belief which does not resemble the modern idea of karma at all. Face it. Good things happen to bad people. And bad things happen to good people. That's life. And while we shouldn't endure it, there's absolutely no reason to shout at people who, quite frankly, have become real life genre savvy about things that happen.
"Better to aim your expectations low and be pleasantly surprised than to aim your expectations high and be disappointed" people say, and these are wise words.
You want good news? Find it yourself. Cynicism isn't weak. And it isn't giving up either. It's just a world view, and it is just as valid as your world view. The sooner you accept that the sooner you will prosper.
Furthermore, don't order people to be optimistic, and don't order people to share your worldview. It is, quite frankly, overstepping your boundaries and is offensive to people.
Now, cool your fucking jets. Next time you get angry, step away from the computer. But I will not allow you to hurl abuse at people on these forums, even if they are people I disagree with from time to time. And I will not allow you to order people to do things just because they share a different world view and you disagree with that.
I say this to help you.
Look, I understand the value of being realistic. I understand where you are coming from. I'm just angry, that's all. I know that sometimes the bad guys win. But everyone's attitude is "The CEO won...ohhh well..." and when I say we can fight this, I get an attitude like "Yeah, right!"
Well, the Corporate powers are ignoring the laws & taking over and all we can do is twiddle our thumbs and sulk. I have yet to see ONE of them get punished. I'm sick of it! I have yet to see us win one battle! Cynicism isn't the problem, it's hyper-cynicism, which seems to be the "in thing" with folks these days. I'm not a hyper-optimist. I'm all for realism, too! I am an Realist-Idealist! I don't expect major change in a short time. But dammit, THERE'S NO MORALE ANYMORE!
Are you just gonna roll up and die? Are you going to wimp out?
We, The Left, have lost our spirit. We need it back! We need strategies! We need to do what the enemy does. We need to be careful & shrewd. I understand the pitfalls of too much optimism & idealism but I reject this nihilist/pessimist/hyper-cynical attitude everyone has. Is this our future? Is this what we have become? A world where the just majority is powerless against an unjust minority? Even when the bad guy wins the battle, do we make the best of it or find an alternative?
....Like raising money for this Women's shelter so they can buy land in a NICE neighborhood & build a beautiful new facility from scratch? How about a big benefit concert?
What's wrong with finding the silver lining on the cloud?
Can I help it if I have anger issues? Can I help it if my rage is fulled by feelings of pure helplessness?
I just want to see some justice!
I'm so sorry.
I'm angry because I see nothing but victories for the wrong side. Where are the victories for "the little guy"? Nazis fell...Soviets fell...other unjust regimes & people have fallen...why can't that happen today?
Okay, I know...LGBTs are winning left & right. That's good, I'm happy....
But what about Women's Rights? The Right To Choose? The Economy? The Haves & Have nots?
Oh, I removed my stupider quotes. Sorry for flaming you guys. I feel like shit!
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I too feel Spuki's frustration. Why must good things continue to happen to utterly rotten, disgusting "people"?
I reject the idea that the world must stay as it is, that there is an American way of life, that somehow just because a bunch of old people who are now long dead decided on something, that such is how it must be.
Even if it means I am not a patriot, that I hate this disgusting country with a passion...I will not stand by idly as people victimize one another with impunity.
Why can't the rich just suffer a little, to put them even somewhat near the level of humanity of basically everyone else?
They are endlessly rotting this world with their spoiled attitude, closing their gates to everyone outside their communities, watching the world burn from their private jets, and only thinking of how to get richer and richer. They have absolutely no right to tell us how to live our lives, when they live in gated communities, play golf and stay in luxurious homes.
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I agree, these kinds of people need to be humbled.
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Thank you so much, niam2023 & Dynamic Dragon. You understand! I wish we could have a group hug.
So, a VIRTUAL ONE will suffice...
My detractors are welcome, too. I love you all....
(http://i43.tinypic.com/mmtmf.jpg)
GROUP HUUUUG!
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> Can I help it if I have anger issues?
As a matter of fact, Spuki, yes, yes you can. It's called channeling your rage into productive things, rather than going on a caps lock psycho-rage. I do blacksmithing and sword practice, and yard work. What's your excuse?
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Look, I understand the value of being realistic. I understand where you are coming from. I'm just angry, that's all. I know that sometimes the bad guys win. But everyone's attitude is "The CEO won...ohhh well..." and when I say we can fight this, I get an attitude like "Yeah, right!"
Well, the Corporate powers are ignoring the laws & taking over and all we can do is twiddle our thumbs and sulk. I have yet to see ONE of them get punished. I'm sick of it! I have yet to see us win one battle! Cynicism isn't the problem, it's hyper-cynicism, which seems to be the "in thing" with folks these days. I'm not a hyper-optimist. I'm all for realism, too! I am an Realist-Idealist! I don't expect major change in a short time. But dammit, THERE'S NO MORALE ANYMORE!
Ok then. If that's how it is, then by all means, prove us wrong. As you seem so eager to do, get up from behind your computer, go out and fight for change. Find a way, any way at all, to put a major corporation in its place and return the house to its former owners. You can do that, then of course I and I imagine most other will not only take you seriously, but maybe even fight alongside you when possible. Until then, these big words of yours are little more than the ramblings of a naive hyper-optimist.
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Calm down guys, or I'm splitting the topic into flame and burn
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While I agree that people should get up and fight against injustices like what's happened with this women's shelter, the fact is that corporations and interest groups have what most people don't: money. With that, they are the ones that have the biggest voices in our politics, legislation and policy making.
There numerous grassroots organizations and small protests and marches, but unless you own a corporation, are a large, special interest group at.al you're not going to have much of an impact on a state or national level.
This doesn't mean that you can't try and become a voice for change though, some things work out on a smaller scale.
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The CEO of said company should give up his own house in return. Or maybe just one of his summer homes.
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When people stand up against the rich and powerful, it's true the cards are stacked against you. You might not win.
I'll just leave you with this thought from an old Redgum song.
Fred had talked of his grueling heavyweight bouts
I remembered what he'd said
There's no giving up on that killing floor
If you don't fight you're dead
If you work with your hands for your livelihood
Some day you might have to choose
When the class war rages on the factory floor
If you don't fight you lose
REDGUM - KILLING FLOOR LYRICS
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What I don't get is how the hell can they force a sale?
Although it doesn't appear to be the case here, usually they use Imminent Domain, which for those of you outside the US is when the government forces someone to leave their land. I'm not sure if they have to pay them for it, but they usually do. It's original intent was for when the government needed a particular piece of land for a very good reason, such it being hazardous to the residents and they needed to move somewhere else, or needed by the military as a critical location(like to set up an AA gun near an important factory). It's recently been abused quite a lot for much more frivolous reasons.
A story was posted here a few days back of the UK's equivalent being used for the first time since WWII. Unfortunately it's been used a lot in the US
Yeah, it was my thread on Trump and his (and a few others') attempts to use the Compulsory Purchase Act to force people to sell their homes. I'd say that the same type of douchebaggery that's happening in North-East Scotland has happened in Ohio as well.
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> Can I help it if I have anger issues?
As a matter of fact, Spuki, yes, yes you can. It's called channeling your rage into productive things, rather than going on a caps lock psycho-rage. I do blacksmithing and sword practice, and yard work. What's your excuse?
In fact Spuki, why don't you go and do something about the problem? Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
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Yeah, it was my thread on Trump and his (and a few others') attempts to use the Compulsory Purchase Act to force people to sell their homes. I'd say that the same type of douchebaggery that's happening in North-East Scotland has happened in Ohio as well.
It said in the article there was no forced sale (at least by the government). Western and Southern used a lawsuit over zoning to bleed them of money until they would either sell willingly or go bankrupt.
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Yeah, it was my thread on Trump and his (and a few others') attempts to use the Compulsory Purchase Act to force people to sell their homes. I'd say that the same type of douchebaggery that's happening in North-East Scotland has happened in Ohio as well.
It said in the article there was no forced sale (at least by the government). Western and Southern used a lawsuit over zoning to bleed them of money until they would either sell willingly or go bankrupt.
So keep bringing them back to court so that eventually they're too broke to fight?
You know, this is why I like watching the BBC version of The Apprentice: It's nice to see corporate types getting fucked over for once.
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Yeah, it was my thread on Trump and his (and a few others') attempts to use the Compulsory Purchase Act to force people to sell their homes. I'd say that the same type of douchebaggery that's happening in North-East Scotland has happened in Ohio as well.
It said in the article there was no forced sale (at least by the government). Western and Southern used a lawsuit over zoning to bleed them of money until they would either sell willingly or go bankrupt.
So keep bringing them back to court so that eventually they're too broke to fight?
That's about the size of it. One of the oldest tricks in the book when it comes to rich people getting their way.
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I know that the United States no longer has a strong union base, so I understand that no-one has come up with the one sure-fire way to get the tyranny of capitalist leeches noticed: a general strike. Seriously, the rich will not take notice or anything unless it hits them where it hurts the most: the wallet. If a large part of the US workforce could be persuaded (here's where the unions come in) to go on a prolonged strike, the wealthy would soon see that they actually do need the poor workers to maintain their lifestyle.
Oh, I do know that this is just a pipedream, but as I do live in a country with a very strong union base I know that this way of fighting brings fast results.
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I know that the United States no longer has a strong union base, so I understand that no-one has come up with the one sure-fire way to get the tyranny of capitalist leeches noticed: a general strike. Seriously, the rich will not take notice or anything unless it hits them where it hurts the most: the wallet. If a large part of the US workforce could be persuaded (here's where the unions come in) to go on a prolonged strike, the wealthy would soon see that they actually do need the poor workers to maintain their lifestyle.
Oh, I do know that this is just a pipedream, but as I do live in a country with a very strong union base I know that this way of fighting brings fast results.
It sounds ridiculous but an idea like that may actually work.
I'll explain....
Have a national week-long protest. In this protest, people don't go to work nor shop. Of course, there's a whole thing concerning food & such, so perhaps they should stock up on food, baby stuff, gas, etc. beforehand.
For a whole week, a vast number of folks across the country will refuse to go to work! If we could get a good chunk of the population in each good-sized town or major city to do this, it would put a big dent in The System!
As for this matter with the Women's Shelter, at least they're able to do what they are doing, it's just that they're moving to a new location. They may have lost this battle, however that's not to say they can't turn the negative into a positive.
I was wrong & rash in my outrage. There's no excuse for it. My temper shouldn't be an excuse either. I accept that sometimes the bad guys win a battle. I understand about Karma, too. Being a ShaktaPagan, I know about reincarnation & am aware that for many bad guys, Karmic justice often is reaped in the hereafter or the next lifetime. The Vedic tradition teaches about a state known as Naraka, the Hindu Hell, a temporary place of purgatorial punishment for the wicked. For many of you, this is "mumbo-jumbo woo woo" but I respect your right to not believe.
I should really get into meditation daily, that'll help me a lot!
I need to take a major chill pill, man!
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Spuki, let me explain something to you:
Not everyone here is left-wing or has a burning desire to bring down 'The System'. People are pissed off about a large corporation using its financial muscle to shut down a woman's shelter, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to want to see the whole of the US shut down for a week to protest at the Government.
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People are pissed off about a large corporation using its financial muscle to shut down a woman's shelter, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to want to see the whole of the US shut down for a week to protest at the Government.
^This.
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Spuki, let me explain something to you:
Not everyone here is left-wing or has a burning desire to bring down 'The System'. People are pissed off about a large corporation using its financial muscle to shut down a woman's shelter, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to want to see the whole of the US shut down for a week to protest at the Government.
No. I'm not against the Government. I'm all for supporting the Government, paying taxes & all that jazz. I love America and the ideals it was founded on. I was suggesting that people who work for regular, non-Govt. jobs (I should have specified that) protest by taking a week of, thereby depriving the big corporations money.
But after careful consideration, I realize it's a dumb idea, plus most folks won't do it. I must be sane & realistic.
If one is to starve the beast, it's best not to do business with the offending companies. There are alternatives, small businesses, credit unions in lieu of big banks, second-hand shops, dumpster diving, etc.
If everyone cut back on the big box chain stuff, we could greatly reduce the money going to dorks like the Kochs, Murdoch, this woman's shelter stealer, etc. Less money means less power & our ability to fight them would be a tad easier.
Government isn't the problem, it's corruption.
Believe it or not, I'm very patriotic...but it isn't blind patriotism, nationalism or jingoism. I love America as a concept, an ideal. An ideal that is very PROGRESSIVE. The Stars & Stripes should be in the same camp as The Peace Sign, Ecology Flag, The Dove, COEXIST, and other "Liberal"-type symbols. We need to reclaim that stuff, man!
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Spukikitty, a mod told me to view your most recent posts as an example of how to do a proper reply. Which
Spuki, let me explain something to you:
Not everyone here is left-wing or has a burning desire to bring down 'The System'. People are pissed off about a large corporation using its financial muscle to shut down a woman's shelter, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to want to see the whole of the US shut down for a week to protest at the Government.
No. I'm not against the Government. I'm all for supporting the Government, paying taxes & all that jazz. I love America and the ideals it was founded on. I was suggesting that people who work for regular, non-Govt. jobs (I should have specified that) protest by taking a week of, thereby depriving the big corporations money.
But after careful consideration, I realize it's a dumb idea, plus most folks won't do it. I must be sane & realistic.
If one is to starve the beast, it's best not to do business with the offending companies. There are alternatives, small businesses, credit unions in lieu of big banks, second-hand shops, dumpster diving, etc.
If everyone cut back on the big box chain stuff, we could greatly reduce the money going to dorks like the Kochs, Murdoch, this woman's shelter stealer, etc. Less money means less power & our ability to fight them would be a tad easier.
Government isn't the problem, it's corruption.
Believe it or not, I'm very patriotic...but it isn't blind patriotism, nationalism or jingoism. I love America as a concept, an ideal. An ideal that is very PROGRESSIVE. The Stars & Stripes should be in the same camp as The Peace Sign, Ecology Flag, The Dove, COEXIST, and other "Liberal"-type symbols. We need to reclaim that stuff, man!
Historically, the government oppressed people with Peace Signs and Ecology Flags. Anarchists, and anyone else with an unpopular political opinion who dared challenge the government and state power, could reasonably expect to lose their jobs, and were often beaten, imprisoned, or killed at the hands of strikebreakers and the police. The symbols you mention, though often fully compatible with the limited government mandated by the Constitution, were in opposition to the authoritarian regime of the time.
I don't remember who posted it, but someone said they would rather pledge to the Constitution than the flag. I don't think the problem is reclaiming symbols so much as bringing the government back to its Constitutional limits, instead of the current system where we have massive overreach and abuse of power. This is not a "capitalist" thing, a socialist like George Orwell would have vehemently opposed the Patriot Act as well. Belief constitutionally limited government does not necessarily make one a libertarian, much less a Teabagger or "right-wing Patriot militia nut."
In any case, I think I've pretty much given away through earlier posts that I strongly disagree with the pro-statism position.
There are a lot of reasons why, and I'll get to them later, but it's 4:00 5:00 in the morning right now, and to continue would be to take the "I disagree with someone on teh internets, must type!" meme to more of an extreme than I've already taken it by not sleeping right now. By reasons, I don't mean evangelize or flame you, just to give a background of where I'm coming from in terms of what I believe. I say that because there seems to be a widespread impression, not confined to the left wing*, that libertarians are an unthinking herd of redneck scrooges mindlessly parroting lines about "gol-dern gub'mint takin' my cashmoney and automatic weapons."
*On the other hand, just to spout off opinion, may not be a bad trade for progressives to get the flag and the term "Patriot" back from the conservatives, if progressives agree to give the term "liberal" back to the [url-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism]actual liberals[/url]. And it wouldn't hurt if guys like Blount would admit they actually despise most of the ideas of Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand when it comes to personal freedom, instead of quoting them as if libertarians (who are not collectivists) and right-wing authoritarian racialists (who are) are on the same ideological team.
*See: Rick Santorum, Pat Buchanan, Paleoconservatism, Compassionate Conservatism
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I think there's a lot of unwarranted emotion involved here. Ultimately, a women's shelter is a service. If the service is being provided in an old run down building, that isn't good.
There was clearly a compromise here that could have been found. The company pays substantially more than the value of the place without coercion, takes the tax break for charitable giving and gets their precious hotel. In return, the shelter is rebuilt on equally good ground a block away, but with modern premises. I bet if the corporation had come to them first with that offer in good faith, they would have had a different response.
That said, the shelter didn't want to sell. The spitefullness and mean-spiritedness of a corporation that forced a battered women's shelter to give up historically-listed* land in order to build something they don't even need- by exploiting the courts, no less- is unfathomable. No less because it didn't need to happen.
I don't think the problem is reclaiming symbols so much as bringing the government back to its Constitutional limits,
While this is not the place, I would quite like to know what you consider the government's (governments'?) over-stretching beyond its Constitutional limits. Certainly you've posted what I consider a bunch of myths about alleged 'classical' liberals, who are basically the same as modern ones.
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Fred, it was a case where a 100 year old charitable institution (which had received grants to renovate...which had to be used for attorney fees, instead) was forced out due to the corporation not wanting "those people" (poor people) visible on the nice and safe and trendy avenue. The building provided afterwards is in a sketchy neighborhood, that is loud and congested with traffic and has a relatively high violent crime rate. And there are no parks anywhere near it for the women to take their children to. Please read the original article, again, if you did so in the first place.
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You know. Perhaps there should be a benefit of some sort so that this women's shelter can raise money to buy a new plot of land in a nicer neighborhood and build a new place from scratch. Perhaps turn this loss into a win! Maybe we can convince someone to work out something.
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Fred, it was a case where a 100 year old charitable institution (which had received grants to renovate...which had to be used for attorney fees, instead) was forced out due to the corporation not wanting "those people" (poor people) visible on the nice and safe and trendy avenue. The building provided afterwards is in a sketchy neighborhood, that is loud and congested with traffic and has a relatively high violent crime rate. And there are no parks anywhere near it for the women to take their children to. Please read the original article, again, if you did so in the first place.
If I've been unclear in my response, I apologise. You've clearly misunderstood.
I don't agree with the company's actual actions, not remotely. I was just suggesting that there was an alternative that could have kept both sides happy. If the corporation had purchased land in a reasonable area, donating a substantial amount of money for the construction of an upgraded facility* I doubt they'd have been turned down. They weren't just evil, they were stupid.
I did not think of the bolded section, though on reflection that makes a lot of sense. Proving once again that we should have the death penalty for corporations.
* Clearly the old facility was inadequate, hence the millions of dollars of government money they got later to refurbish it.
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Maybe not death, but certainly extremely heavy fines and/or imprisonment for clearly unethical, nigh-inhumane business practitioners. Basically, any business person who took Atlas Shrugged as gospel, but I digress.