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Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Ultimate Paragon on August 28, 2014, 10:44:52 pm

Title: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on August 28, 2014, 10:44:52 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28958365 (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-28958365)

Quote
Four male college students at the North Carolina State University are developing a new kind of nail polish that changes colour in the presence of date-rape drugs, like GHB and Rohypnol.

The goal of their company, Undercover Colors, is "to invent technologies that empower women to protect themselves," specifically against sexual assault, they said on their Facebook Page.

"With our nail polish, any woman will be empowered to discreetly ensure her safety by simply stirring her drink with her finger," they said. "If her nail polish changes colour, she'll know that something is wrong."

Undercover Colors initially garnered praise, with hundreds of thousands of likes and shares across Facebook and Twitter.

"There are already bulky devices that can be used to test drinks for date rape drugs," writes Adam Clark Estes for Gizmodo .

"But it's not necessarily easy to carry these things around on a night out and whip them out at bars."

However, the inevitable internet backlash came from a surprising source - anti-rape advocates.

"I'm appreciative that young men like want to curb sexual assault, but anything that puts the onus on women to 'discreetly' keep from being raped misses the point," writes Jessica Valenti for the Guardian.

"We should be trying to stop rape, not just individually avoid it."

Valenti argues that promoting products like Undercover Colors is not only ineffective, but also can lead to "victim-blaming," if women don't take all the suggested precautions.
This is fucking ridiculous.  I think George Takei said it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yytbDZrw1jc
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 28, 2014, 10:54:47 pm
Honestly, if this nail polish is legit? That's pretty fucking clever.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: I am lizard on August 28, 2014, 11:39:19 pm
There's nothing wrong with trying to prevent rape on an individual level.

Yes, society places to much pressure on women to protect themselves and not society as a whole to protect people, but that doesn't mean giving people anti-rape stuff is bad.
 
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on August 28, 2014, 11:41:15 pm
There's nothing wrong with trying to prevent rape on an individual level.

Yes, society places to much pressure on women to protect themselves and not society as a whole to protect people, but that doesn't mean giving people anti-rape stuff is bad.
Unfortunately, there are certain people who don't see the difference.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: niam2023 on August 29, 2014, 12:12:13 am
Basically, this is Radfems going - "NO MEN R BAD WHY U NO DO OUR FEMINISM?"
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 29, 2014, 12:34:40 am
Uh.  Okay.

It's one thing to say "It's your fault for getting raped, you should have worn more clothes and screamed louder."

It's another to say "Look, there's bad people out there, here's a barbed female condom you can use, and some fingernail polish that reacts to the chemical commonly used to drug women."

The first one?  Bad and putting the onus of rape on women.

The second one? GOOD, and empowering women to fight against their would-be rapists.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Eiki-mun on August 29, 2014, 04:00:29 am
So if we take Miss Valenti at her word, and listen to her, clearly the best course of action is to take away all tools that women currently have to fight rape, refuse to allow them any new ones, and then hope that somehow, no man will ever rape again.

I wish I could live in a fantasy world like she clearly does.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Dakota Bob on August 29, 2014, 07:14:15 am
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: SCarpelan on August 29, 2014, 10:27:27 am
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: I am lizard on August 29, 2014, 11:43:05 am
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Dakota Bob on August 29, 2014, 11:43:40 am
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.

Sure, fair enough.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on August 29, 2014, 05:38:28 pm
The doublethink is strong with this one.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Dakota Bob on August 29, 2014, 05:43:57 pm
The doublethink is strong with this one.

What you talkin' bout, willis?
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on August 29, 2014, 05:45:14 pm
The doublethink is strong with this one.

What you talkin' bout, willis?
I'm talking about anti-rape advocates complaining about an anti-rape tool.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Askold on August 29, 2014, 11:48:27 pm
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 30, 2014, 12:40:24 am
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.

And that is pretty much how you know you have a rape culture.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: ironbite on August 30, 2014, 12:53:20 am
So if we take Miss Valenti at her word, and listen to her, clearly the best course of action is to take away all tools that women currently have to fight rape, refuse to allow them any new ones, and then hope that somehow, no man will ever rape again.

I wish I could live in a fantasy world like she clearly does.

That's beyond a fantasy world.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: I am lizard on August 30, 2014, 01:40:05 am
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.
I suppose people think it's only rape if it's a black/mentally ill man who attacks you in the alley way.

And yeah, it is surreal, like saying you wouldn't murder but you would shoot someone in the head.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 30, 2014, 09:17:39 am
Or like you wouldn't poison someone, but you would drop cyanide in their coffee.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Canadian Mojo on August 30, 2014, 10:05:38 am
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.

Because a rapist is someone who jumps out of the bushes and uses a weapon not someone who stalks bars and uses alcohol or coercion.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Sigmaleph on August 30, 2014, 02:09:41 pm
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.

Well, rape is a word that sounds very bad, and they are not bad people, so clearly they cannot be rapists.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: I am lizard on August 30, 2014, 04:11:12 pm
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.

Because a rapist is someone who jumps out of the bushes and uses a weapon not someone who stalks bars and uses alcohol or coercion.
I hope this is a joke.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Canadian Mojo on August 30, 2014, 06:12:51 pm
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.

Because a rapist is someone who jumps out of the bushes and uses a weapon not someone who stalks bars and uses alcohol or coercion.
I hope this is a joke.

A joke would imply something funny. This is more of a snarky observation of what's wrong with society than anything else.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: I am lizard on August 30, 2014, 06:31:01 pm
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.

Because a rapist is someone who jumps out of the bushes and uses a weapon not someone who stalks bars and uses alcohol or coercion.
I hope this is a joke.

A joke would imply something funny. This is more of a snarky observation of what's wrong with society than anything else.
Ah, I just wanted to make sure you weren't being seriouse with that.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Canadian Mojo on August 30, 2014, 09:42:56 pm
Teach men not to rape? I'm pretty sure the actual rapists are the ones who know it's bad, but do so anyway.
Yeah, those who rape strangers probably usually do but not all rapists fall into that category. Those who rape people they know and who trust them don't even necessarily realize they are committing a rape. That's where teaching people about what constitutes a consent to having sex can help the issue.
I suppose this counts as a source:http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape (http://jezebel.com/5404064/rapists-admit-repeated-crimes--as-long-as-you-dont-call-it-rape)
I was just going to talk about that survey. It just seemed so surreal when I read about it the first time. What kind of guy goes: "Would you rape? no. Would you have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you? YEA BABEEE! I DO THAT AAALLL THE TIME!" I just can't understand HOW someone can have such a disconnect or whatever in their mind that they do not understand what rape is.

Because a rapist is someone who jumps out of the bushes and uses a weapon not someone who stalks bars and uses alcohol or coercion.
I hope this is a joke.

A joke would imply something funny. This is more of a snarky observation of what's wrong with society than anything else.
Ah, I just wanted to make sure you weren't being seriouse with that.
Oh believe me, in my personal opinion anyone who actually thinks like that should have their head repeatedly bounced off of a convenient hard surface until they smarten the fuck up. Anyone who acts that way should find themselves in an abandoned wooden building nailed to the floor by their balls and the strong odour of gasoline in the air.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Damen on August 31, 2014, 03:50:17 am
Anyone who acts that way should find themselves in an abandoned wooden building nailed to the floor by their balls and the strong odour of gasoline in the air.

(http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/I-want-to-play-a-game-GIF.gif)
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Ironchew on September 02, 2014, 08:33:27 pm
I encountered this attitude recently in Pharyngula.

After PZ called me an obstinate ass and a wannabe-Vulcan (long story, though you guys could probably guess why), "Vulcan mansplaining" became a phrase they were throwing around. Someone else got the same treatment; he probably didn't agree with me, but he tried a similar rhetorical approach, and the Pharyngula sycophants dogpiled on him. They said, among other things, "You are like the nail polish designers."

Really, is there anything to say at that point?

(http://i.imgur.com/JYtqsDj.gif)
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Ghoti on September 02, 2014, 10:17:38 pm
To be fair to the protesters, only a small number (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/28/alcohol-most-common-drug-in-sexual-assaults/3285139/) of rapes involve date rape drugs. The nail polish is a neat chemistry trick, but its practical use is limited.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: RavynousHunter on September 03, 2014, 06:34:22 am
To be fair to the protesters, only a small number (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/28/alcohol-most-common-drug-in-sexual-assaults/3285139/) of rapes involve date rape drugs. The nail polish is a neat chemistry trick, but its practical use is limited.

Though, if it prevents even one rape, its creation was a success.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Cerim Treascair on September 03, 2014, 11:13:00 am
To be fair to the protesters, only a small number (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/28/alcohol-most-common-drug-in-sexual-assaults/3285139/) of rapes involve date rape drugs. The nail polish is a neat chemistry trick, but its practical use is limited.

Though, if it prevents even one rape, its creation was a success.

Spoilered for size, re: Ravy's post
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Dakota Bob on September 03, 2014, 12:04:30 pm
Wouldn't it be more practical to invent a glass that can change colour when a date rape drug is detected, then stock those in as many bars as possible

(Of course, I don't have a degree in Chemistry or anything, so I have no idea how feasible this idea is)
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: RavynousHunter on September 03, 2014, 12:42:02 pm
Its certainly possible, methinks, but that may just end up with predators sticking to bars that either can't afford them or just don't care.  However, its not a bad idea...
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Eiki-mun on September 03, 2014, 01:52:08 pm
Wouldn't it be more practical to invent a glass that can change colour when a date rape drug is detected, then stock those in as many bars as possible

(Of course, I don't have a degree in Chemistry or anything, so I have no idea how feasible this idea is)

Well, for one thing, you're going to have to have some process available to reverse the reaction as well, or else the glass will just be tinted forever, which would make it kinda useless as a date-rape prevention glass. But the biggest concern would probably be money. A glass like this would inherently be significantly more expensive than your usual glass, and bars, like all businesses, like to make as much money as possible. Announcing they sell date rape glasses isn't likely to significantly increase their profits (though in an ideal world, it wouldn't lower them either), so they end up losing money on the date-rape glasses. Not announcing that they have these glasses would be even worse from a financial standpoint, because then they're spending extra money on something the customers will never know about.

It's all about the money.
Title: Re: Backlash Against Roofie-Detecting Nail Polish
Post by: Barbarella on September 20, 2014, 12:05:26 pm
I just read that the nail polish thing was another bit of baloney put on The Web.....

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/5-b.s.-stories-that-went-viral-anti-roofie-nail-polish/
Go to #3.