FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: TheReasonator on October 05, 2012, 07:07:52 pm
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I mean no disrespect to black people or Christians, but it's always made me wonder. They were enslaved and Christianity enforced upon their ancestors (most of them). You'd think they're would be a large movement saying "we're not slaves anymore, let's cast off the chains of Christianity" or even "Let's get back to our roots and embrace traditional African religions." But yet you see higher percentages of Christians among African-Americans compared to white people.
It would be understandable if it was the result of a high amount of gratitude towards that part of Christianity that preached against slavery and stood up for social justice, but then you'd expect black Christians to be more socially progressive than other Christians, when this is not the case. There is less tolerance for gay people among black Christians than other Christians (though it's not like whites have a stellar record there either).
And then when you look over at Africa it seems like nobody dares raise the objection that "homophobia" is a western cultural import and that practicing it means they are still in a way being controlled by the colonizers. In fact in complete disregard for history many speakers claim that "homosexuality" was imported, even though there are even tribes in Africa where homosexuals were traditionally seen as playing an important religious role.
Is this some sort of strange sociological variation of Stockholm Syndrome?
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inb4 shitstorm
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inb4 shitstorm
So it begins... the great shitstorm of our time.
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Alex I'll take education for $1000
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.....I got nothing and I'm black so yeah I'm just gonna avoid this like the plague.
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...Yeah, I'm staying out of this. In fact, this thread is now about "yo mama" jokes.
Yo mama so dumb, she flunked kindergarten!
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Boy, this didn't escalate at all immediately.
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*takes a drink*
... what? none of you have heard the latest addition to the FSTDT drinking game? every time Reasonator says something stupid, take a drink!
And my best friend is both black and jewish. Fuck you very much.
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This is now a Batman thread:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljbosc8Z4Y1qajezpo1_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljckwbBJrP1qajezpo1_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkuvynlS3r1qddtljo1_500.png)
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I thought they teach world history in high school . . .
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
You know, I've always find it funny when someone from the NOI tells me my name is a slave name and I have to remind them that Arabs plundered Africa for slaves long before Western Europeans.
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I don't think it's in spite of racism and dominance, but rather because of it. Christianity tells people that it doesn't matter what their race or economic status is, they can go to heaven if they have faith. When people are in poverty or discriminated against it probably feels good that their position is irrelevant to the creator of the universe and they'll be in a better place when it all ends. It also gives them a tighter sense of community.
...Yeah, I'm staying out of this. In fact, this thread is now about "yo mama" jokes.
Yo mama so dumb, she flunked kindergarten!
Yo mama so fat, when she wore a yellow dress she was mistaken for a school bus.
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
You know, I've always find it funny when someone from the NOI tells me my name is a slave name and I have to remind them that Arabs plundered Africa for slaves long before Western Europeans.
That and a lot of Europeans bought their slaves from other Africans. A few of the more enterprising African tribes worked out that they can sell slaves to the Europeans, use the money to buy modern weapons and then use the weapons to raid neighbouring tribes for more slaves.
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I've actually had someone explain this as a remnant of the civil rights movement, the churches were generally seen as one of the few places a black person could go in a group and not be harassed so everyone generally went even if they didn't particularly care for it. It built up the community, and so if you weren't at the church like all the others, you weren't part of the community and were seen as an outsider.
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
You know, I've always find it funny when someone from the NOI tells me my name is a slave name and I have to remind them that Arabs plundered Africa for slaves long before Western Europeans.
That and a lot of Europeans bought their slaves from other Africans. A few of the more enterprising African tribes worked out that they can sell slaves to the Europeans, use the money to buy modern weapons and then use the weapons to raid neighbouring tribes for more slaves.
Then it shouldn't surprise you how often that part is glossed over. My cousin stoped talking that nonsense to me when I told him that factoid a few years ago.
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Yeah, strange how a lot of people forget that. The institution of slavery corrupted a lot of societies.
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
The Nation of Islam is to Islam as the Heaven's Gate people are to Christianity. Nation of Islam is some fucked-up shit.
And the actual answer is: it's a variety of things. For slaves in America, Christianity actually did itself in; while white Christians would argue that Africans were lower than Hebrews and that their situation was incomparable because of the curse of Ham and stuff, religiously literate slaves drew parallels between Exodus and their situation. Furthermore, certain sects of Christianity (Quakers, for example) were abolitionists and helped slaves, so it wasn't like Christianity was entirely bad. And in both colonial Africa and with slavery in America, practicing native religions and cultures were either discouraged or entirely banned, so a lot of them were forgotten.
Of course, a lot of black people in America are not Christian, and there are black Jews, black Pagans, and even (though I can't for the life of me understand why) black Mormons.
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
Of course, a lot of black people in America are not Christian, and there are black Jews, black Pagans, and even (though I can't for the life of me understand why) black Mormons.
Yeah, I can never understand why blacks would want to be Mormon. Hell, even Scientology is more palatable than that.
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but then you'd expect black Christians to be more socially progressive than other Christians, when this is not the case. There is less tolerance for gay people among black Christians than other Christians (though it's not like whites have a stellar record there either).
Just want to point out that this isn't true. Support for same-sex marriage in white christian and black christian communities is about the same.
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
You know, I've always find it funny when someone from the NOI tells me my name is a slave name and I have to remind them that Arabs plundered Africa for slaves long before Western Europeans.
That and a lot of Europeans bought their slaves from other Africans. A few of the more enterprising African tribes worked out that they can sell slaves to the Europeans, use the money to buy modern weapons and then use the weapons to raid neighbouring tribes for more slaves.
Then it shouldn't surprise you how often that part is glossed over. My cousin stoped talking that nonsense to me when I told him that factoid a few years ago.
I've seen that same sort of nonsense spouted on this very forum.
As for the OP, I'll just leave this here:
http://blackatheistsofamerica.org/
http://www.infidelguy.com/article75.html
http://blackfreethinkers.com/
Historically, churches served as a focal point of the African-American community after the Civil War, and as organizations which fought for civil rights. Today, it seems that more African-Americans are beginning to question both the validity and importance of religion as a social institution.
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The clergy were pretty big supporters of slavery in the South before the civil war. I'm guessing two things:
1) Christianity being the white religion, many blacks may have seen it as a way to gain acceptance and respectability,
2) Some civil rights leaders were churchmen, MLK being the most famous.
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Black church is just far more appealing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAYfIzQpja0
At least according to Hollywood, my only source...
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Even black catholic churches tend to be more happy
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I don't think it's in spite of racism and dominance, but rather because of it. Christianity tells people that it doesn't matter what their race or economic status is, they can go to heaven if they have faith. When people are in poverty or discriminated against it probably feels good that their position is irrelevant to the creator of the universe and they'll be in a better place when it all ends. It also gives them a tighter sense of community.
Also, lest we forget, there is very little remaining of the native West African religions or culture. This is for several reasons, nearly all of which boil down to Europeans being horrible racist fucks for a very long time. Specifically:
1. When you're forcibly removed from your home and sent to an entirely different continent, housed with people who don't share your language, culture, or gods, and sold to people who don't share any of those things or skin color, it's really hard to participate in anything that requires a group. It's also hard to participate in things requiring a trained priest or priestess if you aren't one.
2. When you're working from can to can't every day but Sunday, you don't exactly have much time to pass on your religious or cultural heritage to your children. This goes double if you're expected to attend church on Sunday with the people who own you and control your life.
3. It wouldn't surprise me (although it would be pretty horrible) if slaveowners and overseers beat the "superstitious heathenry" out of their slaves if the latter were ever seen practicing their native religions. It was also easy to blame a slave for casting hoodoo curses on your household or livestock (see also Tituba, the slave woman who was essentially the first accused witch in Salem, MA).
4. The colonization of Africa in the 19th century basically did all of the same things, in new and horrible ways.
5. Not all of the West African peoples still practiced their native religions when the Europeans started enslaving them; Islam made it to Africa within about 200 years of Mohammed's death, and spread through pretty much all of the Sahara region.
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I am absolutely astonished that this thread has not turned into a flame war.
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We're all groovy, man.
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I am absolutely astonished that this thread has not turned into a flame war.
I guess we are more smarter and wiser than we think.
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I am absolutely astonished that this thread has not turned into a flame war.
I guess we are more smarter and wiser than we think.
That'd be nice.
That said, the heavily religious community is having it's own issues. I've come across a few articles highlighting issues that African American women involved in church are having rather difficult times getting married, as the men are expected to fit both categories as well. So the trend may not hold a great deal longer.
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Does anyone want this thread to become a flame war? Let's don't and say we did.
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Does anyone want this thread to become a flame war? Let's don't and say we did.
Fuck you! ;D
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Does anyone want this thread to become a flame war? Let's don't and say we did.
Fuck you! ;D
Yeah, the popcorn I made is going to go to waste now! >:(
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Hey, he smiled when he said it. I take it as a compliment. Or a proposition.
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I'm hoping for proposition. Again, I have popcorn, and I need something to watch.
And please hurry, it's getting cold.
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Wakka chow, wakka chow.
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That said, the heavily religious community is having it's own issues. I've come across a few articles highlighting issues that African American women involved in church are having rather difficult times getting married, as the men are expected to fit both categories as well. So the trend may not hold a great deal longer.
I am confused by what exactly you mean here.
From my experience, in Africa, the African people can be a bit strange when it comes to religion. In a number of cases there is a strange mix of their older superstitions mixed with a fanatical devotion to Christianity. The same people who would kill a female child for being a witch because Christianity tells them to, will also see a sangoma (witch doctor) for a traditional remedy. Often in many of the more rural areas, the mix of original culture and Christianity is less with a higher focus on Christianity. I would probably attribute this to the often fundamentalist colonial farmers and such in those areas which would have forced Christianity on them, and with nothing to persuade them otherwise they stick to it.
All in all though, I notice a mix in the African religions. A lot of their old traditional superstitions persist, but under the trappings of Christianity. However I am disinclined to say, like in the opening post, that they are more religious than the whites here. The whole country has a depressingly high level of fundamentalist style religious nature.
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I would probably attribute this to the often fundamentalist colonial farmers and such in those areas which would have forced Christianity on them, and with nothing to persuade them otherwise they stick to it.
The "it was forced by colonial farmers" thing isn't persuasive?
If I was in slavery or servitude of any kind or my ancestors were and they got out of it I would personally want to disassociate with everything that had to do with my overlords unless there was a very compelling reason to hold on to it. I'd go as far as to say that if I had been born into a Christian family in the Baltic states which were historically forced to convert to Christianity from the outside(it wasn't their own king converting and making the subjects convert with him, it was the Teutons) I would likely have rejected Christianity and even explored the traditional pagan religions and their histories, perhaps even tried to revive one. I just don't like the idea of being dominated or oppressed, even indirectly through history.
It sucks because I empathize so greatly with any black people out there who feel the same way, but I'm white. If I was black I'd probably be out there personally trying to encourage "countercolonialism" in Africa and "counterassimilation" at home. I would be stressing that as long as we cling to European ideas like homophobia we are letting them enslave and colonize our minds. I would be vocally confronting African leaders who denounce "homosexuality" as "unafrican" telling them that "homophobia" comes from Europeans. In a class on black radical thought I read a book by an author who was actually saying blacks should leave Christianity because it was enforced by white people, though he also says that Islam is unafrican too because it comes from Arabs and so is not authentically African. Yet even he denounces homosexuality as "unafrican" in spite of the fact that homophobia was imposed from the West, and opposing homosexuality undermines African unity in a way because there are African tribes that not only support homosexuality but elevate it to a special spiritual status.
It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.
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It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.
You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)
To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.
You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.
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It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.
You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)
To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.
You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.
I said unless there was a good reason. Clearly keeping modern medicine has a good reason. Christianity? No good reason. Homophobia? No good reason. The sorts of innovations that have good reasons are the sort that any reasonable people would've came up with themselves (left alone Africans would've at some point invented modern medicine, though maybe not at the same time).
Although I see your point about human nature. I know I'm quite different, it seems like any time I read something about human nature I'm like "really? But I'm a human."
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I actually think this is an interesting question. Best guess, Western attitudes achieved dominance long enough to become the new norm. And there has been some pushback - the Nation of Islam might be an example.
You know, I've always find it funny when someone from the NOI tells me my name is a slave name and I have to remind them that Arabs plundered Africa for slaves long before Western Europeans.
In Tanzania there were slave trading posts Arabs used until the 1920s
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It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.
You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)
To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.
You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.
I said unless there was a good reason. Clearly keeping modern medicine has a good reason. Christianity? No good reason. Homophobia? No good reason. The sorts of innovations that have good reasons are the sort that any reasonable people would've came up with themselves (left alone Africans would've at some point invented modern medicine, though maybe not at the same time).
Although I see your point about human nature. I know I'm quite different, it seems like any time I read something about human nature I'm like "really? But I'm a human."
You seem to forget that people need something to hate and something to believe in, so there are reasons for keeping Christianity and homophobia around.
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It just strikes me as odd that people can be comfortable holding ideas and beliefs they know were basically forced upon their people. I suppose I can understand black people being Christians given that not all of the religion supported slavery or colonialism or forced conversion, but that it is actually higher suggests a sort of passive submissiveness among some black people as to the formation of their identities.
You are forgetting human nature.
When you are brought up believing in something and your parents were brought up believing in something and neither of you even experienced the rod that your grandparents felt while being forced to believe it it is easier to just accept it. They may have hated slavery, but conditioning from childhood sticks. Especially when they never experienced adverse effects themselves from that conditioning. If anything the conditioning is stronger because that original fear of punishment forced a strong belief, and to protect their children a similarly strong belief was instilled in them. Over the generations, that strength of belief has been propagated even though the original reason for it has been removed. (I would also like to point out that the previous mentioned points about churches being communities where they felt safe, and such are also applicable.)
To say that Africans should be anti-colonialism is rather silly. Did the colonial whites do a great disservice to Africans? Yes they did. However to denounce everything that came along with the colonists would mean regressing into a primitive tribalist race. Slavery sucked, but modern medicine, farming techniques and especially guns were all part of that slavery package. To abandon everything that came from the west just because those original colonists enslaved and degraded the people is ludicrous and wishful thinking.
You seem to think that freedom from slavery was based on a pure black on white hatred. While hate plays a part, the Africans desired freedom from slavery not because they hated their masters and everything they and their culture stood for, but because they wanted those luxuries for themselves, even if they had to oppress their fellow Africans to get it. This is evidenced all over post-colonial Africa and in particular Zimbabwe and South Africa. Politicians from African countries, like to use anti-west rhetoric to remain in power while at the very same time doing to their supporters the same indignities of the western colonists and enjoying the best luxuries that the west has to offer.
I said unless there was a good reason. Clearly keeping modern medicine has a good reason. Christianity? No good reason. Homophobia? No good reason. The sorts of innovations that have good reasons are the sort that any reasonable people would've came up with themselves (left alone Africans would've at some point invented modern medicine, though maybe not at the same time).
Although I see your point about human nature. I know I'm quite different, it seems like any time I read something about human nature I'm like "really? But I'm a human."
You seem to forget that people need something to hate and something to believe in, so there are reasons for keeping Christianity and homophobia around.
I would love a world with nothing to hate.
Am I not a person?
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I'm pretty sure you hate things.
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I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.
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I'm pretty sure you hate things.
Sure I do. But it would be great if all those things weren't problems.
I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.
There'd be plenty to be riled up about. Parties, fireworks festivals, trips, trips, sex, ...
There's plenty of "love" to get riled up about and the world could focus more on that once there's not all these problems in the world.
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I'm pretty sure you hate things.
Sure I do. But it would be great if all those things weren't problems.
I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.
There'd be plenty to be riled up about. Parties, fireworks festivals, trips, trips, sex, ...
There's plenty of "love" to get riled up about and the world could focus more on that once there's not all these problems in the world.
All trolls eventually making the mistake of tipping their hand and crossing the line into just looking ridiculous instead of annoying.
You just crossed that line.
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I'm pretty sure you hate things.
Sure I do. But it would be great if all those things weren't problems.
I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.
There'd be plenty to be riled up about. Parties, fireworks festivals, trips, trips, sex, ...
There's plenty of "love" to get riled up about and the world could focus more on that once there's not all these problems in the world.
All trolls eventually making the mistake of tipping their hand and crossing the line into just looking ridiculous instead of annoying.
You just crossed that line.
My point was that a person's attention can be occupied by multiple things, not just things a person hates but also things a person enjoys. Either way you can avoid boredom.
Now with all the things in the world now, those things I hate tend to be a bit more pressing, but if they were all resolved I wouldn't be bored because there are things that don't fit into the category of "thing I hate" that could occupy my time and attention.
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Just to drag this thread screaming back to it's original point.
My fiance is black, and is less religious than I am. Which is impressive, she doesn't even have the marginal background in any of it I'm used to seeing. As to why, well, from what I see there are at least three generations in her family that simply haven't bothered. Which may very well relate to her grandfather having been white, and at the time he married her grandmother it would have likely caused a few issues in church. But there's some questions I'm not asking.
But religious belief is pretty simple, typically inherited from family, typically lost by conflict with the church. The big difference between black and white churches is that black churches were central to achieving actual material gains in terms of civil rights in living memory. Some White churches having actively opposed them. Give it 20 years, then we can see where the stats go, but I'm betting that without serious scandal there will be minimal change in the percentage of religious individuals.
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I'm pretty sure you hate things.
Sure I do. But it would be great if all those things weren't problems.
I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.
There'd be plenty to be riled up about. Parties, fireworks festivals, trips, trips, sex, ...
There's plenty of "love" to get riled up about and the world could focus more on that once there's not all these problems in the world.
All trolls eventually making the mistake of tipping their hand and crossing the line into just looking ridiculous instead of annoying.
You just crossed that line.
My point was that a person's attention can be occupied by multiple things, not just things a person hates but also things a person enjoys. Either way you can avoid boredom.
Now with all the things in the world now, those things I hate tend to be a bit more pressing, but if they were all resolved I wouldn't be bored because there are things that don't fit into the category of "thing I hate" that could occupy my time and attention.
Do you even know what the phrase "riled up" means?
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I'm pretty sure you hate things.
Sure I do. But it would be great if all those things weren't problems.
I'm pretty sure you hate things.
In a world with nothing to get riled up about, I'm pretty sure he would hate being bored.
There'd be plenty to be riled up about. Parties, fireworks festivals, trips, trips, sex, ...
There's plenty of "love" to get riled up about and the world could focus more on that once there's not all these problems in the world.
All trolls eventually making the mistake of tipping their hand and crossing the line into just looking ridiculous instead of annoying.
You just crossed that line.
My point was that a person's attention can be occupied by multiple things, not just things a person hates but also things a person enjoys. Either way you can avoid boredom.
Now with all the things in the world now, those things I hate tend to be a bit more pressing, but if they were all resolved I wouldn't be bored because there are things that don't fit into the category of "thing I hate" that could occupy my time and attention.
Do you even know what the phrase "riled up" means?
You're being awfully picky about words just so you can justify missing the point.
The point is we could have nothing to hate in the world and that wouldn't mean you would have to be bored because there are things that are interesting that aren't hateful.
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You're being awfully picky about words just so you can justify missing the point.
The point is we could have nothing to hate in the world and that wouldn't mean you would have to be bored because there are things that are interesting that aren't hateful.
A well fed and spoiled house cat will still hunt if you give it a chance.
Humans really aren't much different.
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You're being awfully picky about words just so you can justify missing the point.
The point is we could have nothing to hate in the world and that wouldn't mean you would have to be bored because there are things that are interesting that aren't hateful.
A well fed and spoiled house cat will still hunt if you give it a chance.
Humans really aren't much different.
Games of competition could occupy my interest. It doesn't need to be something real to hate to stave off boredom.
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Answer the bloody question.
Ironbite-do you know what riled up means?
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Answer the bloody question.
Ironbite-do you know what riled up means?
Angry
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Answer the bloody question.
Ironbite-do you know what riled up means?
Angry
You can then understand the absolute fucking ridiculousness of, say, saying "riled up about love"?
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I think he just found out.
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Answer the bloody question.
Ironbite-do you know what riled up means?
Angry
You can then understand the absolute fucking ridiculousness of, say, saying "riled up about love"?
God I have to be so specific here...Do you people know what "the gist of it" means?
The point was that even without things to hate it's possible to avoid boredom.
Furthermore, more about "riled up". You could be riled up about a football game loss. That's anger and I suppose it is something to hate but when I say I wouldn't mind not having anything to hate in the world I'm not talking about that measly little level of hate, I'm talking about the bigger picture.
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Answer the bloody question.
Ironbite-do you know what riled up means?
Angry
You can then understand the absolute fucking ridiculousness of, say, saying "riled up about love"?
God I have to be so specific here...Do you people know what "the gist of it" means?
The point was that even without things to hate it's possible to avoid boredom.
Furthermore, more about "riled up". You could be riled up about a football game loss. That's anger and I suppose it is something to hate but when I say I wouldn't mind not having anything to hate in the world I'm not talking about that measly little level of hate, I'm talking about the bigger picture.
The problem is people will take something little and turn it into something big just so they have something. Your use of football as an example is particularly ironic if you use the non-North American meaning of the word because soccer hooligans are the poster children of stupid mindless violence just for the sake of it.
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Answer the bloody question.
Ironbite-do you know what riled up means?
Angry
You can then understand the absolute fucking ridiculousness of, say, saying "riled up about love"?
God I have to be so specific here...Do you people know what "the gist of it" means?
The point was that even without things to hate it's possible to avoid boredom.
Furthermore, more about "riled up". You could be riled up about a football game loss. That's anger and I suppose it is something to hate but when I say I wouldn't mind not having anything to hate in the world I'm not talking about that measly little level of hate, I'm talking about the bigger picture.
"The gist of it" =/= "the exact opposite of what you're trying to communicate." Words have meanings.
Also, while you might think that you could live without hatred, hate is fun (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/200807/what-your-anger-may-be-hiding) and makes us happy. (http://billygordon.com/2012/06/13/drama-anger-addicting/#.UHxE6I7a98x) So, yes, you could, in fact, get bored.
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Answer the bloody question.
Ironbite-do you know what riled up means?
Angry
You can then understand the absolute fucking ridiculousness of, say, saying "riled up about love"?
God I have to be so specific here...Do you people know what "the gist of it" means?
The point was that even without things to hate it's possible to avoid boredom.
Furthermore, more about "riled up". You could be riled up about a football game loss. That's anger and I suppose it is something to hate but when I say I wouldn't mind not having anything to hate in the world I'm not talking about that measly little level of hate, I'm talking about the bigger picture.
"The gist of it" =/= "the exact opposite of what you're trying to communicate." Words have meanings.
Also, while you might think that you could live without hatred, hate is fun (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/200807/what-your-anger-may-be-hiding) and makes us happy. (http://billygordon.com/2012/06/13/drama-anger-addicting/#.UHxE6I7a98x) So, yes, you could, in fact, get bored.
Words have meanings that vary according to context. If words just had meanings in the strictest sense possible then languages would never change.
I suppose I could've been clearer I didn't mean to include soft hate in "hate". I just want a world without slavery, repression, police brutality, racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism... I couldn't care less if minor hatred continues and I suppose life could get pretty boring if it didn't.
The article on "What Your Anger May Be Hiding" makes sense. If you being cutoff in traffic, naturally it makes you fear for your life. When someone else takes an action that makes you fear for your life it makes sense to get angry at them. I could even imagine someone going too far in modifying their behavior to be OK with road rage then underreacting in more serious situations.
The article seems a bit biased against anger. "In short, if we can't comfort ourselves through self-validation, we'll need to do so through invalidating others. And people who suffer from chronic depression typically have not learned how to avail themselves of this potent, though ultimately self-defeating, defense."
So, invalidating homophobes and racists is a "self-defeating defense"? Sometimes people are invalid, not as a person as a whole but in the way they are interacting with you and so should be invalidated. Although I'd say "contempt" is probably more healthy a reaction than ordinary "anger".
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To be completely fair to Reasonator here I've seen riled to mean agitated far more often than simply angry, and lots of people get agitated over relationships. On looking 'rile' up to agitate something(as in the mechanical process of agitation) actually seems to be the definition.
There are far more reasonable things to annoy him with than word choice.
Anyway, Reasonator, from what I'm seeing you're a bit more socially detached than I am. You've got to remember that logic doesn't always factor into how people live, there isn't always a nice clear trail of believe, and you're pretty damn lucky if you can trace through these things to find a real cause. We have entire sciences devoted to trying to figure out why people do things, there haven't been many easy answers. Unless someone hated their mother.
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I'm a black former christian, so let me take a whack at it...
If someone tells you a lie long enough, people begin to believe it. Also, the negro spirituals and belief in a 'loving' christian god that would save them got the slaves through harsh times. Like most people who pray right before something good happens, they rejoiced and blamed god for ending slavery, and the religion stuck. Being taught that your former religion is evil and caused you to be slaves in the first place doesn't help either. As for the gay thing: it's about 'manhood' that black men feel the constant need to assert, and black women claim to desire. Lessies aren't a problem, as the men think they can 'convert' them. I've had black men tell me all the time (black women tell me too) that all I need is a man in my life. *eyeroll* I also saw it in high school: The big burly football/basketball jocks were praised by the others, and any male that showed any femininity was shunned or abused, like some of the male choir members I was friends with.
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I'm a black former christian, so let me take a whack at it...
If someone tells you a lie long enough, people begin to believe it. Also, the negro spirituals and belief in a 'loving' christian god that would save them got the slaves through harsh times. Like most people who pray right before something good happens, they rejoiced and blamed god for ending slavery, and the religion stuck. Being taught that your former religion is evil and caused you to be slaves in the first place doesn't help either. As for the gay thing: it's about 'manhood' that black men feel the constant need to assert, and black women claim to desire. Lessies aren't a problem, as the men think they can 'convert' them. I've had black men tell me all the time (black women tell me too) that all I need is a man in my life. *eyeroll* I also saw it in high school: The big burly football/basketball jocks were praised by the others, and any male that showed any femininity was shunned or abused, like some of the male choir members I was friends with.
The different views on lesbians and gay men also reflects a sexist assumption(not just with blacks, with society at large) that says men are to be held responsible because they are in charge, but since women are historically viewed as inferior people tend to think "oh the poor dear is just confused".
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Concerning the idea that it's "human nature" to hate or need an "other" to fear....why don't people decide just to hate people who deserve to be hated, like serial killers & other nasty, cruel people? I think this "hating folks for their color, gender, creed, etc." is more about political manipulation of the populace than anything. The concept for hating/discriminating against someone because of traits other than character is downright insane.
Concerning homophobia, homophobia & misogyny go hand-in-hand. Evil twins.
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Holy fucking necro Spuri.
Ironbite-you seriously have to stop this.
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How did I know exactly who necroed this thread before I even clicked on it?
Really now, it takes less that a second to read the date of the last post. Even you should be able to manage that.