FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: rtvc2012 on January 21, 2012, 01:59:05 pm
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This is a venting/personal story thread. If you're gay, what are some experiences you've had with anti-gay fundies? If not, what are some things you've observed from them? What aspects of the way they treated you pissed you off the most?
Personally, I find the "love the sinner, hate the sin" types to be far more infuriating than the in-your-face WBC people. At least they don't try to hide behind faux "love and concern". Plus, they're so over the top that I don't take them seriously anymore.
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I didn't have to deal with it much during my life... I was one. I am so, so sorry. (I realized my mistake before I realized I was gay, if it at all helps...) I was taught, growing up, that homosexuality was a choice, and wasn't told all that much about homosexuality itself. Literally, the only thing I knew was that they chose it, and it led to "deviant" behavior. However, being a good person, I didn't want to just condemn them for it... I knew damn well that being gay didn't hurt anybody; I just felt bad. So I was one of those "forgive you for your sexuality" type people.
It has, however, given me a bit of insight into the way these particular fundies think... they legitimately do care about homosexuals; they're just operating under false information. I believe if there's anyone you should direct your "fuck you"'s to, it's the church leadership who Did Not Do The Research and then misled the entire group into thinking the way they did. So yes, they're wrong and ignorant, and they are guilty of not doing independent research and discovering the truth... but their "sympathy" is born of legitimate compassion, even if it is completely misguided.
*sigh*.. again, I'm sorry. :(
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As a fundie, my anti-gay sentiment went as far as "Those poor people, putting themselves at risk for so much disease :( And sinning, too..."
Funnily enough, the one vaguely anti-gay reaction I can remember having was a legitimate concern for entirely different reasons... namely an older friend of mine having an unprotected sexual act (though it wasn't anal sex) with another guy. I have honestly no idea if I would've had the same reaction had he done the same with a girl, so I'm allowing for the possibility that I could've been a hypocrite over it.
it sounds condescending (because it is) but to me, they were people to be pitied, not hated.
And then I took a straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back to the back, and left fundamentalism, began to become liberal, began to open my mind to the fact that gays were actually perfectly good people, that safe sex is always a good idea, that many reports of the disease and injury that I was told gays experienced were highly exaggerated.
...And then I figured out that the porn I was looking at was 90% male, 10% obligatory female, with not a single act of heterosexual intercourse in the entire gallery.
Outside of my own fundieness, the only experience I've had with this stuff was from idiots on Youtube telling people that they're going to hell, or telling gay people that they're "blessed with the opportunity to go into a lifetime of celibacy" (talk about Blessed with Suck) and all that shit.
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My mother still thinks that I'm gay because she was a bad parent. That I chose to be gay out of rebellion because of hers and my father's mistakes.
Edit: to clarify, they are both fundies and I am a very liberal half-Christian. She thinks that everything- my faith, my sexuality, my political views, all of it, are just me rebelling. So.
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One girl in my Catholic school (who was Baptist, funnily enough) actually interrupted class to tell us the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. I remember being so angry at her, because I was still in the "I can't be gay but it's OK if other people are" mindset, and I could just tell that it was wrong. I think what pissed me off was the blasé way she spoke about the death of hundreds of people. That's just... eugh.
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For people who purport to be compassionate and merciful, I think the anti-gay fundies are cruel, vindictive sons (and daughters) of bitches. I find it ironic that they reveal their true natures when they spout off on homosexuality.
My POV is that of a permanently straight dude: They really should take some remedial reading comprehension classes. Otherwise, they'd realize that they have become the Pharisees of their time. Of course, the greatest irony is that homosexuality isn't even mentioned. Pederasty IS, but not homosexuality. And the tragic part? I'm an atheist, and I know more about the Bible than they do.
And that's just sad.
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There was this girl in my history class once who said that if same-sex marriage is allowed then there would be nothing to stop feline-human marriage from becoming legal. The teacher rightfully called her out on this, and the next time the topic of same-sex marriage was brought up he said that the next person to bring up cat sex would have to stay after class.
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I was raised in a very liberal household so i never meet any homophobes in my upbringing but they are oh so abundant in my school i can actually count the none homophobes on bolth of my hands and i mostly blame this on the fact that the majority are christen and so ya.
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One girl in my Catholic school (who was Baptist, funnily enough) actually interrupted class to tell us the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. I remember being so angry at her, because I was still in the "I can't be gay but it's OK if other people are" mindset, and I could just tell that it was wrong. I think what pissed me off was the blasé way she spoke about the death of hundreds of people. That's just... eugh.
Oh, thank you, you jogged a memory for me!
Once, while in college (during an Economics class no less), one of the girls giving a presentation mentioned about how the pro gay-rights movement was a lot like Hitler's propaganda. This was during an economic comparison between America and Germany. When it came time for questions, I barely managed to restrain the fury in my voice when I asked her what that had to do with economics. She just hand-waved it.
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My boss is catholic and gay. He told me that more than once, an old fart pastor will start spouting off anti-gay sermons, and he (my boss) and his 'husband' restrained themselves from telling the guy to $%#@ off.
My wife found a bunch of churches in the area that accept gays with open arms, but he insists on going to a catholic one. So far we haven't found one in the area.
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Not by fundies, but I was picked on by a bunch of bogans for being gay in my high school. I can't've been older than 12 when it started, so I never really got a chance to question myself properly.
It lasted for 5 years. For 5 years, I was taunted, sexually harassed (by the straight males, no less), had rumours spread about me, etc.
It wasn't 'till October 2010 that I realised something was up. Thought I was bisexual for a while, but realised I was gay a bit later. I've still got reservations about coming out 'cause of the bullshit I suffered through.
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I think what pissed me off was the blasé way she spoke about the death of hundreds of people. That's just... eugh.
Kind of a Banality of Evil thing, huh? That’s what is really scary about it.
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Not by fundies, but I was picked on by a bunch of bogans for being gay in my high school. I can't've been older than 12 when it started, so I never really got a chance to question myself properly.
It lasted for 5 years. For 5 years, I was taunted, sexually harassed (by the straight males, no less), had rumours spread about me, etc.
It wasn't 'till October 2010 that I realised something was up. Thought I was bisexual for a while, but realised I was gay a bit later. I've still got reservations about coming out 'cause of the bullshit I suffered through.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jFT8tfk6Pew/Tplz-Ol0xuI/AAAAAAAAAKc/B7wvWED_2Ng/s1600/hug.jpg)
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jFT8tfk6Pew/Tplz-Ol0xuI/AAAAAAAAAKc/B7wvWED_2Ng/s1600/hug.jpg)
Yeah, sure. :)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xpx4nyYjE1w/TahYPwbHAXI/AAAAAAAAByg/0n-x6aS5t6c/s1600/Bear+Hug.jpg)
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Homosexuality was mentioned in my school exactly once: as a method of AIDS transmission. The other method mentioned was needle sharing. My church didn't mention it at all.
So I didn't have a lot of programming to overcome in that sense. However, the fact that people didn't even talk about it created the impression that it must be something really bad (an idea I extended to sex in general, as sex is generally not discussed in public). After all, we didn't talk about bathroom functions because they were nasty, so the only reason you would avoid an entire subject in conversation must be because it was nasty and bad.
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Homosexuality was mentioned in my school exactly once: as a method of AIDS transmission.
Yeah, that's how it was at my school too. The teacher said that gays are unhealthy because "poop chutes weren't meant to be used that way."
Apparently that doesn't apply to anal sex between heterosexuals.
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Well, I got a lot of crap from students because I was in a Transparent Closet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TransparentCloset), but surprisingly teachers were very good about their education in Health class. For a far-right town the Health curriculum was fairly centrist: We were taught everything about STDs, how they're spread, contraceptives, abortion, and all the other stuff that old white men say is destroying society today... but they also taught that abstinence really was the best route. All in all, a fair compromise, I think.
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Well, I got a lot of crap from students because I was in a Transparent Closet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TransparentCloset), but surprisingly teachers were very good about their education in Health class. For a far-right town the Health curriculum was fairly centrist: We were taught everything about STDs, how they're spread, contraceptives, abortion, and all the other stuff that old white men say is destroying society today... but they also taught that abstinence really was the best route. All in all, a fair compromise, I think.
In fairness, abstinence is the only way to be 100% certain of not getting an STD or pregnant. Unless God takes a fancy to you, then all bets are off.
Of course, teaching abstinence only is a lot like teaching drivers ED without mentioning seat belts or defensive driving techniques. First good sized bump in the road and shit is liable to get ugly.
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In fairness, abstinence is the only way to be 100% certain of not getting an STD or pregnant. Unless God takes a fancy to you, then all bets are off.
Well, that's not entirely true. All you need is to be jabbed by an infected needle and you can get an STD. Worst thing is, you actually do get sick freaks who want nothing more than to infect random people, normally with HIV.
Abstinence, along with responsibility when it comes to drugs, is the best you can do to prevent infection, its no 100% sure, but about as good as you can get.
Personal story, as a transsexual, I get plenty of trouble from my mother, a super fundie. Things have calmed down and now she just completely ignores the issue as though its some kind of phase. Of course, in her denial she refuses to refer to me as a she or use my new name. Also I get no help form her at all, in what is extremely difficult and costly. I also lost my job before as a result and have been denied employment at other companies as well. It is really a part of the problem of living in a country that is officially christian and where there is a culture of raping lesbians to turn the strait.
The good news is, that despite my mother blocking me at every opportunity, this year look to be the one where I finally finish up, and I have a great job at a very accepting company. Of course, I also have a really amazingly accepting boyfriend. (yes now I am just bragging)
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"Brag" away - I don't know you but I'm happy things are picking up in your life.
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Homosexuality was mentioned in my school exactly once: as a method of AIDS transmission.
Yeah, that's how it was at my school too. The teacher said that gays are unhealthy because "poop chutes weren't meant to be used that way."
Apparently that doesn't apply to anal sex between heterosexuals.
Nothing enhances the credibility of a discussion like the phrase “poop chute.†:P
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I can't take anyone seriously if they talk about poop chutes.
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Well, I got a lot of crap from students because I was in a Transparent Closet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TransparentCloset), but surprisingly teachers were very good about their education in Health class. For a far-right town the Health curriculum was fairly centrist: We were taught everything about STDs, how they're spread, contraceptives, abortion, and all the other stuff that old white men say is destroying society today... but they also taught that abstinence really was the best route. All in all, a fair compromise, I think.
In fairness, abstinence is the only way to be 100% certain of not getting an STD or pregnant. Unless God takes a fancy to you, then all bets are off.
Misleading. When you measure the effectiveness of a birth control method, you also have to take into account the percentage of times people fail to use it. People who decide to be abstinent fuck a lot more often than people who decide to use condoms forget to put them on.
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Well, I got a lot of crap from students because I was in a Transparent Closet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TransparentCloset), but surprisingly teachers were very good about their education in Health class. For a far-right town the Health curriculum was fairly centrist: We were taught everything about STDs, how they're spread, contraceptives, abortion, and all the other stuff that old white men say is destroying society today... but they also taught that abstinence really was the best route. All in all, a fair compromise, I think.
In fairness, abstinence is the only way to be 100% certain of not getting an STD or pregnant. Unless God takes a fancy to you, then all bets are off.
Misleading. When you measure the effectiveness of a birth control method, you also have to take into account the percentage of times people fail to use it. People who decide to be abstinent fuck a lot more often than people who decide to use condoms forget to put them on.
If you're teaching them in isolation, yes. However, if you teach both condom-use and abstinence (as in Eniliad's school), the education only fails if they bone and forget to put on a condom. There's nothing wrong with teaching abstinence if you're also showing them other options if they do go a-boning.
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Homosexuality was mentioned in my school exactly once: as a method of AIDS transmission.
Yeah, that's how it was at my school too. The teacher said that gays are unhealthy because "poop chutes weren't meant to be used that way."
Apparently that doesn't apply to anal sex between heterosexuals.
That's just it. I didn't even know what homosexuality WAS and had to ask my mother.* The mini-sermon for that week (done by the principal, and occasionally by the pastor of the church that ran the school) was AIDS. Two methods of transmission were mentioned: homosexuality and needle-sharing. The lesson I took from it was that AIDS was punishment for sin (because no other methods of transmission were mentioned), and that nobody in our school would ever have to worry about getting it because we were Good Christians.
* I was in middle school at the time. Welcome to Alabama.
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Okay, I need to get something out of my system. I'm sorry if this ends up an incoherent mess but I'm doing myself no favors letting this gnaw quietly on my brain. Whenever I start recovering from a virus, the remnant starts fucking with my emotions. Right now, things that barely bother me most days are making me want to cry, and this is why:
These people HATE us. HATE HATE HATE us. They would love nothing more than to see us dead, or "converted" from who we are to a personality type more in line with who they are. They completely pass over any good deeds we do and dismiss it as the work of a depraved Satan-worshiper who is hellbound regardless of their deeds. They spread LIES about how we will die sooner, how we will catch deadly diseases and die from it, and they LAUGH at us for it, even though it's patently not true. Even people who care about us don't seem to give enough of a shit to change the laws on the books, to make things more fair to us. As far as I know, I'm only going to live once, and these people are doing their damndest to ruin it for me, and everyone like me.
And then they're going to sit there and congratulate each other on how much suffering was brought on us, how they tortured us and made us miserable. They will celebrate every gay person they brainwash into hating themselves enough to convert, and pretend to be straight, being miserable but not knowing why. They're going to cheer whenever a depressed gay person commits suicide because of exactly this reason, and then they'll turn the suicide into a weapon, another talking point as to why homosexuality is wrong. And that's all we're worth to them.
And in the end, all I can do is ask... why?
What did we do to you?
And that's a rhetorical question... I know what they'll answer already. Their barbed words a poison to my very being. I know what they'll say, and even though nobody's around to say it, I can hear it anyway.
Someone just... make them go away. Please. Just make them leave us alone and let me live our life in peace...
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And in the end, all I can do is ask... why?
What did we do to you?
We were born?
Also, *hugs*
Had a conversation with my mom yesterday. She was trying to tell me what the Bible says about homosexuality. I told her it doesn't mean what you think it means, and she came back with, "Well, how many times have you read the Bible?" As if reading it more makes you understand it better.
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And in the end, all I can do is ask... why?
What did we do to you?
We were born?
Also, *hugs*
Beat me to it but I'll add in the hugs anyway. *hugs*
Had a conversation with my mom yesterday. She was trying to tell me what the Bible says about homosexuality. I told her it doesn't mean what you think it means, and she came back with, "Well, how many times have you read the Bible?" As if reading it more makes you understand it better.
This is another one of their fucked up double edged swords that make Christians like me look bad. If they ask you that and you tell them only once or twice they tell you that you really need to study it.
If you tell them you've read it multiple times and can even explain concepts like sheol to them then God is going to punish you even more harshly because you should have known better.
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Okay, I need to get something out of my system. I'm sorry if this ends up an incoherent mess but I'm doing myself no favors letting this gnaw quietly on my brain. Whenever I start recovering from a virus, the remnant starts fucking with my emotions. Right now, things that barely bother me most days are making me want to cry, and this is why:
These people HATE us. HATE HATE HATE us. They would love nothing more than to see us dead, or "converted" from who we are to a personality type more in line with who they are. They completely pass over any good deeds we do and dismiss it as the work of a depraved Satan-worshiper who is hellbound regardless of their deeds. They spread LIES about how we will die sooner, how we will catch deadly diseases and die from it, and they LAUGH at us for it, even though it's patently not true. Even people who care about us don't seem to give enough of a shit to change the laws on the books, to make things more fair to us. As far as I know, I'm only going to live once, and these people are doing their damndest to ruin it for me, and everyone like me.
And then they're going to sit there and congratulate each other on how much suffering was brought on us, how they tortured us and made us miserable. They will celebrate every gay person they brainwash into hating themselves enough to convert, and pretend to be straight, being miserable but not knowing why. They're going to cheer whenever a depressed gay person commits suicide because of exactly this reason, and then they'll turn the suicide into a weapon, another talking point as to why homosexuality is wrong. And that's all we're worth to them.
And in the end, all I can do is ask... why?
What did we do to you?
And that's a rhetorical question... I know what they'll answer already. Their barbed words a poison to my very being. I know what they'll say, and even though nobody's around to say it, I can hear it anyway.
Someone just... make them go away. Please. Just make them leave us alone and let me live our life in peace...
That was incredibly touching. You and everyone else in your position will get nothing but support and respect from me.
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I have a very simple answer to people who oppose gay marriage: How would you like it if someone told you, "I'm going to do everything in my power to make your life miserable and prevent you from marrying the person you love because my religion says your relationship is a sin"? If someone said that to me, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves, and I wouldn't expect gays to reply any differently.
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And in the end, all I can do is ask... why?
What did we do to you?
We were born?
Also, *hugs*
Beat me to it but I'll add in the hugs anyway. *hugs*
Had a conversation with my mom yesterday. She was trying to tell me what the Bible says about homosexuality. I told her it doesn't mean what you think it means, and she came back with, "Well, how many times have you read the Bible?" As if reading it more makes you understand it better.
This is another one of their fucked up double edged swords that make Christians like me look bad. If they ask you that and you tell them only once or twice they tell you that you really need to study it.
If you tell them you've read it multiple times and can even explain concepts like sheol to them then God is going to punish you even more harshly because you should have known better.
First of all, I know at least two people hugged me after I made that last post. Thank you very much for that, both of you. :) But I quoted this post because I wanted to answer it, and provide some kudos.
I know there's a lot of fundie bashing, but I'm aware that sometimes, on the main page and on the forums occasionally, some of that rage carries over and people (yes, me included) take it out on Christianity or religion in general. And despite that, here you are, a Christian, showing the common sense and kindness needed to realize "hey, these other guys are totally nuts!" and to my knowledge, haven't got pissed at us for occasionally catching regular, decent Christians in our verbal crossfire. For that, you have a major kudos award. We need people like you from time to time to remember that not all of you guys are bad - it's just that there are some real nutjobs out there using your faith as a means to spread hate. :)
And yeah - I don't think I've had a conversation quite like that, but it always baffled me, even when I was a Christian myself, why someone would demand that an Atheist know their holy book (and only theirs) as well as them or better, and use solely that to defend their viewpoints... when the person they're arguing with doesn't believe in the book anyway, and therefore doesn't consider the rules in the book true to begin with.
Pardon the comparison, but you could draw a parallel to that, and demanding that a sci-fi geek prove that your understanding of the Men of Numenor from Lord of the Rings is incorrect using only the Silmarillion. If he doesn't like it, he's not going to read it, and you should understand what you profess to love so much!
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Yes, well, liberal, bi/pansexual, pro-choice, feminist, God wants us to love one another, who has studied mythology and can point you to the myths/legends Christianity plagiarized, type of Christian here. Sometimes my own ilk look at me like a two headed kraken has just oozed onto the beach and is about to attack them.
The religion isn't perfect, not by far. I'm largely a Christian because I believe there is a God somewhere out there in all this mess and because Jesus gives me the warm fuzzies. I've left the religion and came back because it makes the most sense to me. That doesn't mean a Muslim is wrong, or a Hindu, or a Wiccan. That just means they've found a different path to God than I did and as long as it makes them happy and doesn't induce dickish behavior I'm all for it. I'd rather (forgive the vernacular) deal with an honest pagan (or atheist as the case were) than a dishonest Christian. I will quote Ghandi at people "I like your Christ but I do not like your Christians; for they are so unlike your Christ".
When a fellow Christian asks me if I've read the book I tell them yes, over a dozen times. Then I ask them if they have. You are not supposed to take a lot of it literally. There are mentions of zombies, ghosts, dragons, unicorns, half-demons, giants, manticores, etc in that book. You mean to tell me I'm supposed to believe those thing are all real? Chances are good if they're asking that question they're actually a Paulian anyway.
Jesus teaches us in Matthew 22: 37-40:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Did any of you fundies lurking here catch this? Jesus said to love God and love each other. Those are the most important things for a Christian to do. Even God has a "don't be a dick" rule.
Early in that same chapter he also spoke out on separation of church and state. Matthew 22:21
...Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Catch that? Things that are legal issues should stay legal issues. Things that are strictly religious issues should stay strictly religious issues. There should be a clear line between them.
Legal marriage as recognized by the government is a legal issue. It doesn't mean your pastor is going to be arrested for refusing to perform a wedding for a local lesbian couple. No one is going to make your church accept them. All that means is the 1,400+ rights a marriage grants across the country now legally belong to that couple.
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Exactly! I haven't read the Bible all the way through, as I think most of it is pretty boring and I have a short attention span. But I have read the important parts, and what's more I actually study it, look up historical context and translation ambiguities. But that's not good enough, she's read it cover to cover 20-ish times over the years, so she obviously knows it better than me.
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Exactly! I haven't read the Bible all the way through, as I think most of it is pretty boring and I have a short attention span. But I have read the important parts, and what's more I actually study it, look up historical context and translation ambiguities. But that's not good enough, she's read it cover to cover 20-ish times over the years, so she obviously knows it better than me.
I know I have not read the bible nearly as much as most Christians, and yet oddly, I know their bible far better than most of them. I cant cite book names and verse numbers like they seem to, but I know the stories and what it says and give me the internet and I will find the chapter and verse numbers to prove it.
I must say, sometimes I am a little too harsh on general Christians myself. I know that most are not bad people, and that only the fundies are the really bad ones, but I have found far too often when someone who would be a nominal christian in all senses treats me like I am less than the scum on his shoes just because of who and what I am. Most Christians are very nice people, but far too often they fall into the trap of letting their own bigotries show, and then backing them up conveniently with religion. It is not systemic like fundies, its more and opportunistic thing, where they just happen to be faced with a situation and let their religion shape their opinions for them.
Odd note for rosenwock21: You would technically be a deist. There are plenty on this site, many believe that a god exists or have found their own path to spirituality.
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Odd note for rosenwock21: You would technically be a deist. There are plenty on this site, many believe that a god exists or have found their own path to spirituality.
True. But then again, anyone who follows a god or gods is a baseline deist. ;) I suppose you could call me either. I have the god is out there, all paths lead to god mindset of the typical deist. But I also try to follow the teachings of Christ, go to church semi-regularly, and when I do pray (normally for patience and understanding) I tend to do it "in Jesus' name".
Also, I can't for the love of me remember who said this, but I love this quote.
Politics and the pulpit are terms that have little agreement. No sound ought to be heard in the church but the healing voice of Christian charity.
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Not by fundies, but I was picked on by a bunch of bogans for being gay in my high school. I can't've been older than 12 when it started, so I never really got a chance to question myself properly.
It lasted for 5 years. For 5 years, I was taunted, sexually harassed (by the straight males, no less), had rumours spread about me, etc.
It wasn't 'till October 2010 that I realised something was up. Thought I was bisexual for a while, but realised I was gay a bit later. I've still got reservations about coming out 'cause of the bullshit I suffered through.
*GIVE YOU HUGGY, TOO*