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Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Yaezakura on August 15, 2012, 04:04:40 pm

Title: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 15, 2012, 04:04:40 pm
Just kind of wondering... is anyone else really fucking excited for when this hits tonight?

If anyone's interested in playing some with me when it goes live, my Steam is "Yaezakura" (though the current display name is "Twilight Sparkle").
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 15, 2012, 05:15:08 pm
I'm going to have to wait until after work tomorrow, but it'd be nice to have more folks to play with.  It'll be good to go back to sniping.  Get the rust off and I'll be back to headshotting no problem.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: ironbite on August 15, 2012, 05:48:50 pm
Bet they're doing this co-op thing so people can get some achievements that are just impossible to get

Ironbite-oh and found out Spys can disguise as a bot and sap 'em.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 15, 2012, 06:02:34 pm
Quote from: ironbite on August 15, 2012, 05:48:50 pm
Bet they're doing this co-op thing so people can get some achievements that are just impossible to get

Ironbite-oh and found out Spys can disguise as a bot and sap 'em.

Well, yeah. But that's largely because the Day 2 update mentions that an upgraded sapper can disable entire groups of robots. lol

Still, it sounds cool. Right now, I'm mostly wondering if upgrades are persistent, or reset every game.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: agentCDE on August 15, 2012, 06:21:25 pm
I'd be up for a game as soon as it F-ING LAUNCHES ARGH

And I thought I had got my waiting-game playtime quota in with Payday's Wolfpack DLC.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 15, 2012, 08:02:37 pm
...God damnit. The whole fucking mode is nothing but a cash grab.

I've lost a lot of respect for Valve after this.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: ironbite on August 15, 2012, 08:09:24 pm
...BWHAHAHAHA!

Ironbite-you're not surprised?
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: largeham on August 15, 2012, 08:19:18 pm
What's wrong with it?
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Saturn500 on August 15, 2012, 08:20:39 pm
Relax, you only need to pay to get the cosmetic items. Seriously, just do what I plan to do and don't buy the tickets!
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 15, 2012, 08:23:53 pm
Yeah, but the cosmetic items are fun. But hell, here you're having to pay cash to then go out and EARN an item at random...
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 15, 2012, 08:28:44 pm
...

It's a huge reach to go from saying "the entire mode is a cash grab" to saying "you have to pay to earn random cosmetic items"

I thought Team Fortress 2 being a "Hat Simulator" was a joke :P
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 15, 2012, 08:31:30 pm
I just dislike the fact that to enjoy any of the new items, you have to pay money. These hats can never drop, can't be crafted, etc. Only get them from paying money to play the new mode.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 15, 2012, 09:05:13 pm
... eh, maybe come Christmas for you guys :3
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 15, 2012, 11:31:57 pm
*sighs* As much as I complain, I know damned well I'll invest money in it. I already buy keys and such occasionally. And one of the potential rewards is a blood-splattered Archimedes that you can take into battle with you.

How the fuck am I supposed to resist that?

That said... after the painfully long time it took to download the update... I can't play. ><; Item servers down, matchmaking down, store down... This update seems to have really thrown them for a loop.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Saturn500 on August 16, 2012, 08:40:01 am
I just tried it...

HOLY SHIT IT'S AWESOME OH MY FUCKING GOD IT MAKES MY DICK ROCK HARD!
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Askold on August 16, 2012, 01:40:23 pm
WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME ABOUT THIS SOONER!

I'm gonna have to reinstall TF2 to try this.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 16, 2012, 04:36:58 pm
Also, I saw the price of a ticket.

99 cents...

That's about what I paid to enable trading and increased drop rate all of that awesome shit, so it really isn't a big deal to me... :V (I mean, sure, I don't trade, but I like the increased drop rate and not being considered a Froob)
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 16, 2012, 05:44:39 pm
Quote from: Zachski on August 16, 2012, 04:36:58 pm
Also, I saw the price of a ticket.

99 cents...

That's about what I paid to enable trading and increased drop rate all of that awesome shit, so it really isn't a big deal to me... :V (I mean, sure, I don't trade, but I like the increased drop rate and not being considered a Froob)

Well, it's 99 cents per ticket. A a single ticket lets you play 1 mission of "Mann Up Mode". Winning gives you a normal drop (there's a slim chance this will be a hat or misc. item, it will usually be a common weapon). If you complete all 6 missions, you get a rare item (These rare items seem to be "Botkiller" weapons, reskinned stock weapons that have a robotic Heavy head hanging from them).
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Saturn500 on August 16, 2012, 09:54:06 pm
Yaez, you forgot to mention that the tickets are only consumed if you win.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 16, 2012, 10:14:11 pm
...If it's a guaranteed drop-on-win, then yeah, I can see why they'd charge money for it.

It sounds like since the Botkiller weapons are more or less reskins anyways... are they tradeable, I wonder?

Regardless, since the guaranteed drops you get are basically the same drops you'd get from just playing a normal match of TF2... you're more or less paying for guaranteed drops.

Honestly, they have to make money somehow, and this is actually really clever.  It's insanely cheap and affordable by cash shop standards, which encourages people to buy in bulk.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 16, 2012, 11:10:18 pm
Yes, the Botkiller weapons are supposedly able to be traded. Especially since the reward is a random one, and there's 1 for each class (technically 2 for each class, a normal Botkiller Weapon and a Gold Botkiller Weapon).

I finally managed to play a round of the new mode. It can get surprisingly difficult, especially when you have a Giant Heavy with 8 Quick-Fix Medics trained on it... But, it's also pretty damned hilarious when you're a demoman spamming a million Lock 'n' Load pipes.

I also found that a sticky trap laid ahead of time takes care of all those Medic-bots pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Mechtaur on August 16, 2012, 11:56:22 pm
I haven't played in almost a month, maybe this will finally get me off my ass to dust off my Iron Curtain again.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 17, 2012, 12:02:48 am
Quote from: Mechtaur on August 16, 2012, 11:56:22 pm
I haven't played in almost a month, maybe this will finally get me off my ass to dust off my Iron Curtain again.

Miniguns can get pretty ridiculous. You can do the fairly common damage and ammo upgrades, but you can also upgrade Miniguns to pierce multiple targets and knock enemies back.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: syaoranvee on August 17, 2012, 12:45:58 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6KatJHmbIE
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 17, 2012, 02:21:43 am
Having played it with a good chunk of my WoW guild... yeah, I'm BACK!

*rests sniper rifle on shoulder* Be courteous, be efficient, have a plan to kill everyone you meet, am I right?
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 17, 2012, 02:28:12 am
Quote from: Priestling on August 17, 2012, 02:21:43 am
Having played it with a good chunk of my WoW guild... yeah, I'm BACK!

*rests sniper rifle on shoulder* Be courteous, be efficient, have a plan to kill everyone you meet, am I right?

Be polite*.

Yes, I am that big a fucking TF2 nerd these days.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 17, 2012, 02:30:11 am
I've been up 24 hours straight, I knew it was one or the other.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 17, 2012, 03:46:43 am
If anyone's interested, here's a stream of someone playing the Mann Up Mode (the one you need a ticket for): http://www.twitch.tv/4o4star

Not sure how long they'll be going.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: syaoranvee on August 17, 2012, 04:11:42 am
Got my Tour of Duty Badge:

(click to show/hide)

Played spy:

Had fully upgraded sapper and +100% backstab damage on big enemies(It takes out a fifth of their health with one backstab.).
Sapped the medics as soon as they spawned healing the large enemies as so they can't uber.  They only begin to uber when attacked.  Fully upgraded sapper will sap all of them. 
Backstab them all but make sure to look out for what they were healing, it'll whip right around and blast your ass.  Which is why you should wait until it turns a corner before backstabbing sapped medics.
Later in the round had 50% blast and bullet resistance, plus 10% speed increase.  I would run in and sap a large enemy like a multi rocket soldier, backstab them twice before they noticed and then run around them jabbing at them with the knife while they tried to keep up while taking sustained sentry fire.  (We had 3 engineers.)

Our medic believed it was doomsday brought upon by "Roboprincess Celestia", we all believe him to be mad.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 17, 2012, 11:33:25 am
...and, it turns out Botkiller Weapons are all Strange.

Which makes them go from "worthless novelty" to "ZOMG I WANT EVERY ONE OF THEM" in my mind.

*sighs* Damn you, Valve. Damn you and your kill-tracking ways.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Saturn500 on August 17, 2012, 11:50:38 am
Wow, Mann Up mode sure is tough.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 17, 2012, 01:33:58 pm
Syao:  I think I like your medic.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: syaoranvee on August 17, 2012, 09:14:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVueSF-z1Ys
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: RinellaWasHere on August 18, 2012, 12:01:07 am
I just joined Steam. Hit me with invites and stuff.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 18, 2012, 12:05:30 am
Quote from: RinellaWasHere on August 18, 2012, 12:01:07 am
I just joined Steam. Hit me with invites and stuff.

What's your account name? :3
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: RinellaWasHere on August 18, 2012, 12:14:15 am
Rinellawashere.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: agentCDE on August 18, 2012, 12:32:47 am
So I finally got to play MvM.

A: It's rough.
B: It's fun.

A tip: don't want to sit in line? Open your server browser, set your map filter to mvm.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Mechtaur on August 18, 2012, 02:13:45 am
Oh yeah, my Steam Account name is my username on here (My username on Steam is OWNi if you don't see it matching). Just message me to let me know it is you. I don't need some wackadoo posing as one of you guys.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 19, 2012, 09:11:05 pm
Well, at this point, I've managed to clear 2 MvM missions. One of them even gave me the Sniper's Bolted Bushman (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Bolted_Bushman) robotic hat as a reward. 4 more missions until I get one of the Botkiller weapons...

God, some of these things are murderous, though.

Edit: Make that three missions down. Halfway there.

Spy is amusing to play. Backstabbing usually gets you killed, but you're an amazing support with a maxed out Sapper. I just went a whole mission without a single kill, but acted as a tremendous asset to my team for all the work I did to help them out.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: syaoranvee on August 19, 2012, 11:28:18 pm
I want a Robot Running Man (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Robot_Running_Man) myself.  Also, the mannworks map mission are hard.  Ridiculously hard.  It took me and a team over ten tries to complete the final wave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZavpyk3CRc) and everything had to go flawlessly as possible.  I have 4 missions completed and only need to do one on each Coal Town and Decoy.

A spy is most useful taking out the medics of the large enemies and to slow down large scouts.  Sapping the medics and then using an ubercharge can allow you to kill a group of 4 medics without dying at once while the big enemy can do nothing to stop you.  You can also be a good spy checker as a hidden spy will show a spot to place a sapper if you have it out near them.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 19, 2012, 11:55:38 pm
Hrm. I actually never considered buying UberCharge Canteens. Basically, I'd just wait until the enemies dropped, sap the Giant, which would hit all the Medics, then my team mowed them all down. The only times I even bothered to attack anything was when the only thing left of a wave was a Tank. I just spent my time making sure Medics were disabled, and Giants were moving as slowly as possible to give my team the time they needed to get the job done.

I also learned that Bots will attack you even when disguised if they see you Sap their buddies. However, if you avoid their attacks for like 3 seconds, they forget and move on. Something to keep in mind for any of you planning to Spy in MvM. Also some nifty knowledge? The robots will not aggro if they watch you decloak. They just... don't seem to care about it.

And I so know what you mean about MannWorks. The final wave of the first mission there has kicked my ass over 50 times. I haven't cleared it yet. 2 sets of 2 Tanks, tons of Deflector Heavies with Uber Medics... just... ugh... I hate that mission SO much...
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: syaoranvee on August 20, 2012, 04:00:45 am
Got my first botkiller weapon:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 21, 2012, 12:14:02 pm
Well, I've now cleared 5 of the 6 missions, including the one I mentioned earlier that kicked my ass so hard (MannWorks' Machine Mayhem, I believe is the name). It was just... surprisingly easy this time for some reason. I guess people, including me, are getting their practice in and it's starting to show.

Made me feel kind of good, honestly. My team called me the most effective Spy any of them had ever seen in MvM. I'd disable giant hordes of scouts, disable medics so they couldn't uber giants, backstab snipers so they couldn't threaten my team... I just felt like I was contributing a lot, even with a very low count of actual bots killed.

Amusingly, Spy is probably my worst class in traditional play. I have fun with it, but I'm not effective at all.

All that's left is that Endurance round. Anyone who's gone through it have any tips for me?

Edit: Heh, nevermind. I completed the entire Tour of Duty! I got the Strange Botkiller Minigun, which is precisely the Botkiller I wanted (I had no strange Heavy primaries). Also, as my normal mission drop, I got the Engineer's Hotrod hat. It was a rather satisfying end to the tour, I must say.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 21, 2012, 04:01:24 pm
I think Spy is almost everyone's worst class, because so much of its abilities rely on your opponents' lack of skill.  The skill required to play Spy effectively in spite of your opponents' skill is much higher than the skill required to play any other class effectively.

In MvM, you're fighting waves and waves of robots that literally forget about you and don't care if you decloak in front of them, fighting more by numbers than strategy.  Spy is probably a god in this mode.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 21, 2012, 06:34:42 pm
Actually, it can be really dangerous to be a spy. You have to be right in the middle of the horde to accomplish much of anything, and spies aren't exactly durable. The bots are also surprisingly skilled--spybots will pull off trick stabs like the stairstab and matador, sniperbots have pretty much perfect accuracy, pyrobots will play Ring Around the Sentry if they get close to them, medicbots have perfect uber timing, etc.

The spy's job in MvM is simply very different in MvM than in traditional play. While normally, the spy's primary objective is to take out engineer nests and key targets like snipers and medics, here the spy is much more about sabotage than assassination. You get in the horde, sap them, and run. You sap medic-bots so they can't uber giants, leaving them for your team to mow down. You do still have the task of tracking down and backstabbing snipers, though.

Trying to play a more traditional spy by, for instance, backstabbing the medic healing the Giant Deflector Heavy will just get you killed--the moment you do, your disguise breaks and the Heavy turns on you for killing his medic. You also have to learn the waves and the best times to use your sapper, since unlike in normal play, it has a significant cooldown in MvM. If you sap a group of normal enemies, only to have a Giant Rapid-Fire Soldier hit the ground with 4 Uber Medics on it a few seconds later, your team could very well be in trouble.

Spy may be easier to play in MvM than in traditional play, but I wouldn't say it's any more true than for any other class. It's an entirely different environment with different goals no matter what the class is you're using. The spy's limited ability to kill enemies and vulnerability makes using it well challenging. You're not going to have anything close to the kill count of the Heavy or Soldier--you have to contribute by your few kills being very important and by supporting your team at just the right moments with your sapper.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 21, 2012, 06:41:20 pm
That's actually more or less what I meant, though I will admit I haven't played MvM yet.

In TF2 play, spies basically had no place in a good game because good players are so paranoid that no disguise works.  The only use disguises have are to trick sentries.  And depending on the location, sentry nests are more easily taken care of by a soldier or a demoman than any spy (though the red tape recorder has made things a lot easier for spies)

As far as assassinations go, a good sniper beats a good spy any day.

In MvM, however, spies seem to have an actual use because what they can accomplish can't be more easily done by other classes.  That was my point.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 21, 2012, 09:32:58 pm
*reloads sniper rifle*

If any of you want some practice... lemme know.  I'll keep the long-range clear for you.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Askold on August 22, 2012, 09:07:20 am
I finally managed to get TF2 working and tried MvM, it was ok. Although as usual the biggest problem in a multiplayer mode is that you are playing with actual humans and so far the teams I've been in haven't been any good.

Also, I was checking the new weapons in TF2 and found the description of the Phlogistinator. It seemed funny, but after a while I began thinking that the word seemed familiar... Then I remembered that Phlogiston was an historical scientific theory!

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Phlogistinator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Mechtaur on August 22, 2012, 02:28:46 pm
Quote from: Zachski on August 21, 2012, 06:41:20 pm
That's actually more or less what I meant, though I will admit I haven't played MvM yet.

In TF2 play, spies basically had no place in a good game because good players are so paranoid that no disguise works.  The only use disguises have are to trick sentries.  And depending on the location, sentry nests are more easily taken care of by a soldier or a demoman than any spy (though the red tape recorder has made things a lot easier for spies)

As far as assassinations go, a good sniper beats a good spy any day.

In MvM, however, spies seem to have an actual use because what they can accomplish can't be more easily done by other classes.  That was my point.

A decent spy can have a place in a game with good players by introducing even more paranoia. I've been able to wreck an entire team as one by making them hate each other even more. They got so bad that they would all focus on a single person they saw moving and this would cost them the game.

While a good team that can keep its head cool can make a spy dead meat really fast, the chances of the majority of the members of that team having that skill are pretty low and that is all the spy needs to start screwing with everyone.


Oh, and I played my first few MVM matches yesterday. Gotta say it was pretty fun, but I'm glad I'm used to the usual nature of TF2 players (I.E. Whiny bitches).

The first match had me as a heavy with the rest of the team consisting of an engineer, sniper, and scout. The sniper had some of the worst accuracy in the world and maybe killed a single enemy out of every wave while the engineer couldn't grasp the concept of "get your damn sentry out from the open if you don't want it to keep getting destroyed". The scout was just fine though and had the second largest kill rate, following myself. Unfortunately, we didn't complete all the waves because the engineer and the sniper started to bitch about me taking the ammo boxes I found while killing 7-8 out of every dozen bots that flew past them, which the scout finally got tired of and left. This was enough for me to say fuck it and leave as well since neither wanted to learn any tactics and expected the others to bend around them.

Other matches went just fine and I really look forward to trying to get a few tickets for Mann Up mode.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 22, 2012, 06:12:20 pm
Again, still offering sniper services...

Also, Mech, sent you a friend invite.  Tlaren, at your service.  I'm just going by Siraj of late.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 22, 2012, 06:54:32 pm
Sadly, the matchmaker seems significantly broken at the moment. No one's being put in any existing games, so you can't replace people who quit half-way. Perhaps not a problem if you have an entire 6-man party, but pubbing it is all but impossible at the moment.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Mechtaur on August 22, 2012, 10:23:20 pm
Quote from: Priestling on August 22, 2012, 06:12:20 pm
Again, still offering sniper services...

Also, Mech, sent you a friend invite.  Tlaren, at your service.  I'm just going by Siraj of late.

I was wondering who sent me an invite. Hope to catch you in a game at some point.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Cerim Treascair on August 23, 2012, 04:04:43 am
Quote from: Mechtaur on August 22, 2012, 10:23:20 pm
Quote from: Priestling on August 22, 2012, 06:12:20 pm
Again, still offering sniper services...

Also, Mech, sent you a friend invite.  Tlaren, at your service.  I'm just going by Siraj of late.

I was wondering who sent me an invite. Hope to catch you in a game at some point.

I'll be getting into TF2 as soon as I get home.. probably on around 6 p.m. EST
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: syaoranvee on August 23, 2012, 07:11:09 pm
Going for my second round of Mann Up missions now, even bought a voucher as it seems like the hat drops are more common with them.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Mechtaur on August 26, 2012, 12:25:43 pm
Did some experimenting with classes and I found one thing that slightly disappointed me. I was checking if the Diamond Back got crits from sapping the robots, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 26, 2012, 05:59:53 pm
Quote from: Mechtaur on August 26, 2012, 12:25:43 pm
Did some experimenting with classes and I found one thing that slightly disappointed me. I was checking if the Diamond Back got crits from sapping the robots, it doesn't.

Well, it does specifically say "buildings destroyed". Honestly, being able to get a guaranteed crit off every robot that dies while sapped would make the Diamondback insanely overpowered in MvM.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Mechtaur on August 27, 2012, 02:02:20 am
I wasn't aiming for the ones caught in the sapper aura, just the one that got sappered (sp?) itself.

Because of the fact that Engineer bots don't exist at all and the fact that robots don't give crits, the Diamond Back is actually the weakest revolver in the game now. It has absolutely no benefit to it.

I mean, would giving a crit on a destroyed sapped robot really break the game when I can give myself five full seconds of crits at only 100 credits? Hell, the counter could just reset at the end of a wave if people are worried about people saving all the crits till the end (assuming they survive that long).
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Yaezakura on August 27, 2012, 02:13:58 am
Well, saying it's the weakest revolver in the game isn't quite fair. The weakest in MvM? Sure. But plenty of weapons are really weak in certain situations. Natasha sucks everywhere but MvM. Pretty much the same with the Beggar's Bazooka. The Neon Annihilator is a straight downgrade to the Fire Axe if playing on a map with no water, having to rely on scouts/snipers to get enemies wet.

There are plenty of situations where the Diamondback can be an incredibly potent revolver. It's just not while playing MvM.
Title: Re: Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine
Post by: Mechtaur on August 27, 2012, 03:45:28 am
Quote from: Yaezakura on August 27, 2012, 02:13:58 am
Well, saying it's the weakest revolver in the game isn't quite fair. The weakest in MvM? Sure. But plenty of weapons are really weak in certain situations. Natasha sucks everywhere but MvM. Pretty much the same with the Beggar's Bazooka. The Neon Annihilator is a straight downgrade to the Fire Axe if playing on a map with no water, having to rely on scouts/snipers to get enemies wet.

There are plenty of situations where the Diamondback can be an incredibly potent revolver. It's just not while playing MvM.

Sorry for lack of proper wording, when I said game I did mean MvM. And you are right in that certain weapons depend on the mode and group, just like classes.

I wouldn't say that the Natascha sucks everywhere but MvM, I've seen and used it effectively in CtF and even in basic Attack/Defense games. The ability to slow down people long enough for say, a Solder's Liberty Launcher shot to hit a small cluster of people or to allow the Sniper that split second more time to line up a headshot can be invaluable. Not my personal favorite Mini, but seeing Scouts and Demoknights ragequit is just hilarious to me under most cirumstances as well.

Can't say much for the Beggar's Bazooka, but I've seen it used an awful lot in "for fun" game maps. People seem to do ok there, and in a few Saxton Hale servers I go to too. I don't usually play a Soldier anyway, and I'm really unorthodox when I do (My set usually consists of a Rocket Jumper, Mantreads, and Market Gardener).

Neon Annihilator I can see your point on one hand, but kind of not on the other. Either you need water or something to make the opponent wet, which is a bit random. On the flip side, it is rare that I see a Sniper that isn't packing Jarate and the Mad Milk seems to have gotten more fans in other modes since MvM came out. It can also be a slightly handy alternative to the Maul/Homewrecker since it can detach Sappers, but deal a little more damage to players (Minus the extra damage to buildings [Because Robots don't count as buildings, this can make the Neon better in MvM] and the lack of random crits) I personally use a Strange Sydney Sleeper, which makes a Pyro using buddy of mine smile when we play. But, that is beside the point and I concede this one since it is a really good example.

But, not sure how this turned into a case of arguing over when and where a weapon is useful or not. Just got a little confused as to why they didn't make a sapped robot give a crit. Nothing game breaking, just confusing. Not that I really care anyway, I use my Strange L'Entranger under most circumstances when I play Spy. I'm more holding out for them to fix a lot of the issues that seem to be coming up regarding getting into the game and staying there, a lot of MvM servers I was on today crashed at the exact same point.

Edit: Had to fix some grammar errors and make this thing actually sound like a list of reasons instead of a ramble.